it seems to me that doing a no sparge and increasing the efficiency with other methods will give a difference in character to your wort. which is fine if you enjoy the beer you make but it would just be more difficult to imitate the classic styles of beers that mash traditionally.
Why doesn't everyone just BIAB?
- Thread starter chalkdust41485
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chalkdust41485
This is no hobby....
Yeah, I personally dont make a consorted effort to "clone" brew.
I find that people who try to brew a "clone", constantly compare their beer to the original. Sure, that's the point of a clone, I get it. But if I want to brew a Dogfish Head 90 Minute, and it comes out a shade darker or slightly sweeter, then does it really matter? I'm not Dogfish Head, I don't work for them. I see the point for one's own sanity that it is exactly the same. Maybe I'm just reading into it a little too much.
The same goes towards the method. I've read a couple people now who have compared BIAB to conventional breweries. Of course a big brewery is not going to BIAB. It makes no sense for them too. It's just not practical with 300+ gallon tanks. BIAB is more for the homebrewers who brew 5 gallons every couple of weeks... My last grain bill was 11.5 pounds. I cant imaging manually lifting 20+ lbs of grain. I probably would never do that. But there is plenty of ingenuity in the homebrewing community and have seen plenty of people that have derived other means (mechanical) of lifting/draining the bag with larger brews. I've stated before that I'd really have to decide if I'd want to go down that route when I get to brewing bigger batches.
Basically, my point being that:
1. BIAB is not a commercial brewery thing; it's pointless to do it if your intentions are for commercialization of your brew. (Although, there's not really anything different about the ingredients themselves. Grain is grain, water is water... I could give you a recipe that I just BIAB'd and scale it up to commercial sizes and use it with a different method, right?)
2. For the sake of lifting hot, wet, sticky grain, BIAB can be a PITA. But I just don't mind it.
3. I feel that if I try to clone a beer and it comes out close enough to the original, then Woooo Hooo! I made beer!
And as always, RDWHAHB!
I find that people who try to brew a "clone", constantly compare their beer to the original. Sure, that's the point of a clone, I get it. But if I want to brew a Dogfish Head 90 Minute, and it comes out a shade darker or slightly sweeter, then does it really matter? I'm not Dogfish Head, I don't work for them. I see the point for one's own sanity that it is exactly the same. Maybe I'm just reading into it a little too much.
The same goes towards the method. I've read a couple people now who have compared BIAB to conventional breweries. Of course a big brewery is not going to BIAB. It makes no sense for them too. It's just not practical with 300+ gallon tanks. BIAB is more for the homebrewers who brew 5 gallons every couple of weeks... My last grain bill was 11.5 pounds. I cant imaging manually lifting 20+ lbs of grain. I probably would never do that. But there is plenty of ingenuity in the homebrewing community and have seen plenty of people that have derived other means (mechanical) of lifting/draining the bag with larger brews. I've stated before that I'd really have to decide if I'd want to go down that route when I get to brewing bigger batches.
Basically, my point being that:
1. BIAB is not a commercial brewery thing; it's pointless to do it if your intentions are for commercialization of your brew. (Although, there's not really anything different about the ingredients themselves. Grain is grain, water is water... I could give you a recipe that I just BIAB'd and scale it up to commercial sizes and use it with a different method, right?)
2. For the sake of lifting hot, wet, sticky grain, BIAB can be a PITA. But I just don't mind it.
3. I feel that if I try to clone a beer and it comes out close enough to the original, then Woooo Hooo! I made beer!
And as always, RDWHAHB!
djt17
Well-Known Member
I am not Denny but I use his method, see dennybrew.com
![Craft A Brew - Safale BE-256 Yeast - Fermentis - Belgian Ale Dry Yeast - For Belgian & Strong Ales - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [3 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51bcKEwQmWL._SL500_.jpg)
I thought you were referring to a traditional 3 vessel system.
I have a system similar to the Denny system which I put together for less than $150 including no-weld fittings. I expect that over time my system ends up costing less than BIAB. Even if it didn't, though, I gotta say it just doesn't interest me at all. I did partial mash in a bag after my extract beginnings, and I really prefer the stability and ease of use that I feel with my system, scrappy as it may be. It's nought to do with tradition--I don't care about that at all. It's been an interesting thread though--thanks for putting it out there!
There are limits to BIAB. I only brew 5 gallon batches. I've added 15 lbs. of grain in the bag already and lifted it without a problem. It's really not that heavy. I have a $4 pulley from Lowe's to hold the bag over the kettle let it drain attached to my basement joist. Very simple. I'm not sure how well a bag would hold up with 20 or more lbs of grain in it. Would have to be well stitched plus you would need a pretty big kettle. I've been brewing 17 years and fly sparged for most of that. I like BIAB and it works well for me. But that's just my preference and there is nothing wrong with the other sparging methods.
Prymal
Well-Known Member
I brewed an 11 gallon 22 lb Biab this weekend in a keggle. That was a heavy as hell bag but I made it work. I got 79% efficiency to boot. I average 76% on beers ranging from 1.050 to 1.110.
+15.5! Well said.chalkdust41485 said:Yeah, I personally dont make a consorted effort to "clone" brew.
I find that people who try to brew a "clone", constantly compare their beer to the original. Sure, that's the point of a clone, I get it. But if I want to brew a Dogfish Head 90 Minute, and it comes out a shade darker or slightly sweeter, then does it really matter? I'm not Dogfish Head, I don't work for them. I see the point for one's own sanity that it is exactly the same. Maybe I'm just reading into it a little too much.
The same goes towards the method. I've read a couple people now who have compared BIAB to conventional breweries. Of course a big brewery is not going to BIAB. It makes no sense for them too. It's just not practical with 300+ gallon tanks. BIAB is more for the homebrewers who brew 5 gallons every couple of weeks... My last grain bill was 11.5 pounds. I cant imaging manually lifting 20+ lbs of grain. I probably would never do that. But there is plenty of ingenuity in the homebrewing community and have seen plenty of people that have derived other means (mechanical) of lifting/draining the bag with larger brews. I've stated before that I'd really have to decide if I'd want to go down that route when I get to brewing bigger batches.
Basically, my point being that:
1. BIAB is not a commercial brewery thing; it's pointless to do it if your intentions are for commercialization of your brew. (Although, there's not really anything different about the ingredients themselves. Grain is grain, water is water... I could give you a recipe that I just BIAB'd and scale it up to commercial sizes and use it with a different method, right?)
2. For the sake of lifting hot, wet, sticky grain, BIAB can be a PITA. But I just don't mind it.
3. I feel that if I try to clone a beer and it comes out close enough to the original, then Woooo Hooo! I made beer!
And as always, RDWHAHB!
ultravista
Well-Known Member
A minor variation here - I mash in a bag then transfer the wort to the kettle. Pretty close but no bag in the kettle. Mashing in a bag has been worry free and never a stuck sparge. The wort runs crystal clear ...
Yes, many people have checked many different times. The consensus is that it doesn't work most of the time. If happen to have just the right water and are making just the right style, it may work. In general, it doesn't. It also adds a lot of sodium to your beer which can affect the flavor. I personaly experienced all of that.
1dude1
Member
i'm building a new biab system as i type this. my biab is a giant bag capable of fitting into my brew kettle.(this is the hard part, finding that bag) my brew kettle has a false bottom and the ball valve. put the whole bag in the kettle and line it well. you want there to be almost no area that is not IN the bag. you want your bag to line your kettle as best as possible. then fill with water, heat it up to a striking temp then add grains and check temp and stir. when comes time to drain wort, drain it into another kettle and let the bag drip(this is my guess, you want this to happen yes?) until you can lift it, or until it is as dry as you would like. then you can repeat with a different bag for the whole 60 min boil with the bag and the false bottom to filter everything else out too.
OP
OP
chalkdust41485
This is no hobby....
Well, I'm not one to say that the process you stated wouldn't work (it would), but the point of BIAB is to remove the bag without draining the wort into another kettle. You just lift the bag out and then the wort that is left behind is then heated to a boil and the process proceeds normally.
If you wanted to use another bag during the boil for the hops is a personal preference. I do use a hop bag and like that I don't have to worry about having any extra "stuff" clogging my make-do straining filter and/or getting into my primary. But really, it may not hurt at all of having it in my primary. Again, just personal preference.
I batch sparge with a cooler mash tun and a boil kettle. I use 2-3 buckets/pots to hold/transfer my water/wort.
Didnt read through all of this,but biab is good for ease of stovetop and smaller batches.If i had a mashing setup i would use it,but i dont need it and dont need to spend the money on it since i only have 2 gallon fermenters anyway.3-4 # of grain is easy to work with.If i knew for a fact having a mashtun and spargearm etc. would make better beers-i would consider it.That being said nylon bags make me a little uneasy,been thinking about using organic cotton bags.Then i get to thinking if im going to be spending more why not invest in a pot/false bottom sparging setup instead.To eliminate cooking a bag with my grain.Ive noticed alot of coolers say not to use hot liquids also,usually on the bottom,i dont know what that is all about exactly but ive seen a few instances where people have had warped coolers or something.I just would rather use stainless steel/glass to make beer.
I've used the same cooler for 419 batches. It warped many years and hundreds of batches ago. It makes no difference.
CidahMastah
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I fully recognize the the beer we brew is likely more toxic and has more long term damaging effects than plastic ever could. However I am in the boat that I try to use as little plastic as possible in brewing and life, especially when heat is involved. This has been one of the reasons that pushed me to get a metal tun after doing 3 BIAB batches since I was using a nylon sparge bag.
Again I fully concede that this is a personal choice rather than a rational fear
Again I fully concede that this is a personal choice rather than a rational fear
WileECoyote
Well-Known Member
Nice Thread!
Thanks
Cheers
Thanks
Cheers
Have done about 15 BIAB batches over the past 6 months; I recently acquired a good deal on a 3vessel gravity feed system and tested it out.
Biggest pro for 3v system is easier to do party gyle type brew sessions, to do equivalent anything over 10gal on a BIAB becomes a little trick and requires a ~20gal pot...
Side note: i loved the coolio sparge arm on my system =); water pressure from HLT moves a metal propeller
Biggest pro for BIAB, less gear and storage needs.
Surprising things; I felt I lifted more heavy items- brew stand, grains, and keggles with 3v than I ever do with biab. Maybe I need to learn other ppl's methods for emptying a mash tun...If my buddy hadn't been there to help i would have had to go up and down a ladder several times just to get enough grain out to lift the keggle off the brew stand (30+lbs of grain).
Those considering BIAB- the key is a simple hook/hoist system and a steam basket to ensure bag tears aren't an issue.
Efficiencies for both BIAB and 3v were close. With 3v coming out slightly ahead; did a 11 gal batch of arrogant bastard w/3v and hit ~80% while i typically range 72-76% on BIAB.
Can't go wrong with either system; 3v definitely has a bling factor and has much more info on the internet for calculating water ratios, etc. BIAB can be a little tougher to get info on brewing calc's but BIABrewer.com has some great calculators. If you consistently do 10+gal batches I could see 3v being a bigger draw, assuming you have space to leave your brew stand in the same place your going to brew.
I will likely do one or 2 more batches on this system and sell it as I'm struggling with the space and pain of moving heavy equipment.
One last side note to future brewers- Keggles are damn heavy! Compared to my alternate 15 gal aluminum pot which can be lifted with a pink and is still quite sturdy.
Good luck hope this helps someone out there!
Biggest pro for 3v system is easier to do party gyle type brew sessions, to do equivalent anything over 10gal on a BIAB becomes a little trick and requires a ~20gal pot...
Side note: i loved the coolio sparge arm on my system =); water pressure from HLT moves a metal propeller
Biggest pro for BIAB, less gear and storage needs.
Surprising things; I felt I lifted more heavy items- brew stand, grains, and keggles with 3v than I ever do with biab. Maybe I need to learn other ppl's methods for emptying a mash tun...If my buddy hadn't been there to help i would have had to go up and down a ladder several times just to get enough grain out to lift the keggle off the brew stand (30+lbs of grain).
Those considering BIAB- the key is a simple hook/hoist system and a steam basket to ensure bag tears aren't an issue.
Efficiencies for both BIAB and 3v were close. With 3v coming out slightly ahead; did a 11 gal batch of arrogant bastard w/3v and hit ~80% while i typically range 72-76% on BIAB.
Can't go wrong with either system; 3v definitely has a bling factor and has much more info on the internet for calculating water ratios, etc. BIAB can be a little tougher to get info on brewing calc's but BIABrewer.com has some great calculators. If you consistently do 10+gal batches I could see 3v being a bigger draw, assuming you have space to leave your brew stand in the same place your going to brew.
I will likely do one or 2 more batches on this system and sell it as I'm struggling with the space and pain of moving heavy equipment.
One last side note to future brewers- Keggles are damn heavy! Compared to my alternate 15 gal aluminum pot which can be lifted with a pink and is still quite sturdy.
Good luck hope this helps someone out there!
ghpeel
Well-Known Member
Just throwing this out there, you don't have to decide between traditional mashing techniques and the all-in-one BIAB method. I do a hybrid and it works great.
To stick your toe into the BIAB world, use normal mashing volumes, but instead of using a mashtun with a manifold, just use a 5gal cooler lined with a 5gal paint strainer. When the mash is over, you can recirculate for a minute and drain, or just lift the bag out. This way, you get the benefit of the traditional mash volumes, but you get the benefit of mashing in a bag (no stuck sparge EVER).
To stick your toe into the BIAB world, use normal mashing volumes, but instead of using a mashtun with a manifold, just use a 5gal cooler lined with a 5gal paint strainer. When the mash is over, you can recirculate for a minute and drain, or just lift the bag out. This way, you get the benefit of the traditional mash volumes, but you get the benefit of mashing in a bag (no stuck sparge EVER).
OP
OP
chalkdust41485
This is no hobby....
That is a strong positive for BIAB. I don't gave to worry about a stuck sparge. I can use as much wheat as I want without using rice hulls or worrying about run off rate.
Again, for batches above 5 gallons, BIAB is probably not the best option. If I have to get a pulley system just to lift a 25 pound bag of wet grain, then I'd rather get a wheeled cooler and a manifold. Basically, the approach to larger than 5 gallon batches leans towards the traditional system.
Again, for batches above 5 gallons, BIAB is probably not the best option. If I have to get a pulley system just to lift a 25 pound bag of wet grain, then I'd rather get a wheeled cooler and a manifold. Basically, the approach to larger than 5 gallon batches leans towards the traditional system.
Interesting thread. Has anybody used High gravity brew's BIAB automated system? http://www.highgravitybrew.com/productcart/pc/BIAB-Electric-Brewing-System-269p3987.htm
I have been brewing AG with two igloo coolers and a 10 gallon BK. I am looking to upgrade to simplify and to automate for ease and to develop better consistency with my temperatures (also to go to 10 gallon batches). At first I was thinking of a HERMS or RIMS with a three vessel system, either build my own or something like MORE BEER's tippy brew sculpture. Of course an electric system would be a big plus.
The brewmeister system looks nice but seems very expensive ($3000) and I read somewhere you can't get much above 1.060
I don't think you would get the clarity of your beer from High gravity's system since you don't create a purifying filter grain bed as you do in a mash tun that is recirculating.
Any thoughts and advice will be much appreciated!
I have been brewing AG with two igloo coolers and a 10 gallon BK. I am looking to upgrade to simplify and to automate for ease and to develop better consistency with my temperatures (also to go to 10 gallon batches). At first I was thinking of a HERMS or RIMS with a three vessel system, either build my own or something like MORE BEER's tippy brew sculpture. Of course an electric system would be a big plus.
The brewmeister system looks nice but seems very expensive ($3000) and I read somewhere you can't get much above 1.060
I don't think you would get the clarity of your beer from High gravity's system since you don't create a purifying filter grain bed as you do in a mash tun that is recirculating.
Any thoughts and advice will be much appreciated!
There are lots of problems with the Brewmeister (limited gravity, clogged pump is unrecoverable, dough balls, lifting the incredibly heavy grain column out of the wort, weak boils...), but the wort is very clear since the mashing mechanism is like a nonstop vorlauf. The pumps push the water/wort upwards through the grain bed bracketed on top and bottom by metal screens and cloth filters during the mash.
Dirty25
Well-Known Member
For some reason I don't care about BIAB systems. I think it's just cause the acronym not sure thought. I really don't care how you make beer extract, biab, 3 vessel, or some other way just make beer and bee happy. I use a Janky 3 vessel system, nothing fancy here.
45_70sharps
Well-Known Member
I've never done it, never seen it done and I enjoy the way that I do it.
I don't have anything against it, and I know it's a good way to make very good beer but in the end when changing from extract you pick what you are going to invest in in terms of money, equipment, learning and space and I just chose to start with a good mash tun.
If I saw some advantage to brewing in a bag, I might think about doing it. As it is, I have room and the equipment so I'm happy the way I do it.
I don't have anything against it, and I know it's a good way to make very good beer but in the end when changing from extract you pick what you are going to invest in in terms of money, equipment, learning and space and I just chose to start with a good mash tun.
If I saw some advantage to brewing in a bag, I might think about doing it. As it is, I have room and the equipment so I'm happy the way I do it.
gizmodog51
Well-Known Member
bag it you'll like it ...a simple rinse after turning the bag inside out....what could be more simpler......the aussies know how to simply the complicated:rockin:
GD51
