Why doesn’t everyone BIAB?

[Waunabeer]

Well if 7bbl is nano, I'm going to stay invisible forever then.

 

[Qhrumphf]

i, for one, agree biab doesn't scale up well, but we're on HBT talking about HOME brewing. ya know, personal consumption and 200 gallons a year limit according to the laws in the United States.
I find it silly to immitate pro setups at home. I worked at a bakery when i was younger. Bagels, rye bread, rolls, cookies, muffins, pound cake, etc.
You should see the behemoth mixer we used to make plain bagel dough and the former that rolls the bagels. (300 lbs of flour per run)
There's a reason you wouldn't copy this process when trying to make bagels at home.
Does that make sense to any of you guys?

Yes. But for a *home* setup, 15 gals kinda crosses the practical BIAB threshold where more traditiomal setups may become more appealing. And there are plenty of home brewers making 15 gal batches.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Well if 7bbl is nano, I'm going to stay invisible forever then.

Pico. Femto. Whatever.

 

[Blazinlow86]

i, for one, agree biab doesn't scale up well, but we're on HBT talking about HOME brewing. ya know, personal consumption and 200 gallons a year limit according to the laws in the United States.
I find it silly to immitate pro setups at home. I worked at a bakery when i was younger. Bagels, rye bread, rolls, cookies, muffins, pound cake, etc.
You should see the behemoth mixer we used to make plain bagel dough and the former that rolls the bagels. (300 lbs of flour per run)
There's a reason you wouldn't copy this process when trying to make bagels at home.
Does that make sense to any of you guys?

It will never make sense because your pulling figures from the sky. when was it decided that 10 gallons was the limit on what's considered homebrewing? why was 10g choosen to be the limit?does it change if I'm brewing with 2 friends Lastly what does the American limit on how much you can brew have anything to do with a hobby that's not solely based in America. Your aware there are places in the world not in Merica correct? Your point about bagels makes no sense to me. Are you suggesting that if you were making 300lb worth of bagels at home it would be easier and better to do it by hand than a mixer Solely because your at home? Cheers

 

[Qhrumphf]

Even within the 200gal US limit...

If you brew one 15 gal batch a month, you stay well within that limit. Same as if you brewed three 5 gal batches per month you'd be at the same place.

And as BIABers seem to be a crowd that emphasizes the time savings, does it not make sense to expend the same (or barely more) effort for thrice the product?

 

[Blazinlow86]

Even within the 200gal US limit...

If you brew one 15 gal batch a month, you stay well within that limit. Same as if you brewed three 5 gal batches per month you'd be at the same place.

And as BIABers seem to be a crowd that emphasizes the time savings, does it not make sense to expend the same (or barely more) effort for thrice the product?

5-10 gallons your a homebrewer. 11-100000000g gallons and your a professional with no business brewing at home lol. Cheers

 

[NewJersey]

you two ^^^ are being obtuse.
enjoy.

 

[Blazinlow86]

you two ^^^ are being obtuse.
enjoy.

rofl that's the pot calling the kettle black. Read the title of the thread before posting nonsense next time. At least we're on topic explaining why we choose not to biab. Your just trolling . Cheers

 

[fendersrule]

I'm going to start BIAB soon as my main method of brewing. I have one question regarding it, and I also have a response to the thread about "why doesn't everyone do it!"

The main reason that I didn't do it for the first 5 times of partial mashing is simple: Because BIAB requires brewing outdoors. I've always brewed on my stove-top (which is a tight fit). There is no possibly way in hell that I could throw a huge hulking grain back in there, and add a pully system in my kitchen for this. It just isn't feasible given the space.

My question for BIAB. The way I see BIAB is pretty much the same exact thing as partial mashing. Instead of mashing partially (12lb of grain or so for a double batch) you are mashing at least 2x of that. Same process. But with partial mashing, you splarge, or rinse the grains to get every last bit of sugar possible. For BIAB, people don't splarge. Why is that? It's not any different in this regard, so why not splarge to extract more sugars?

 

[Blazinlow86]

I'm going to start BIAB soon as my main method of brewing. I have one question regarding it, and I also have a response to the thread about "why doesn't everyone do it!"

The main reason that I didn't do it for the first 5 times of partial mashing is simple: Because BIAB requires brewing outdoors. I've always brewed on my stove-top (which is a tight fit). There is no possibly way in hell that I could throw a huge hulking grain back in there, and add a pully system in my kitchen for this. It just isn't feasible given the space.

My question for BIAB. The way I see BIAB is pretty much the same exact thing as partial mashing. Instead of mashing partially (12lb of grain or so for a double batch) you are mashing at least 2x of that. Same process. But with partial mashing, you splarge, or rinse the grains to get every last bit of sugar possible. For BIAB, people don't splarge. Why is that? It's not any different in this regard, so why not splarge to extract more sugars?

When I biab I don't bother sparging as it's a extra step and I'm generally just doing 2.5 gallon test batches so the extra effiency doesn't really matter. I'm in the camp of effiency being the least important thing in the whole brew process. Cheers

 

[fendersrule]

Interesting. I have a 15 gallon kettle. I'm assuming that I can still use this kettle for BIAB, even to make double batches?

I still wouldn't mind spraying the bag with a water hose to rinse. It doesn't take long.

 

[Blazinlow86]

Interesting. I have a 15 gallon kettle. I'm assuming that I can still use this kettle for BIAB, even to make double batches?

I still wouldn't mind spraying the bag with a water hose to rinse. It doesn't take long.

I'm not sure about double batches. I think it's generally recommended to have a kettle double the size of your batch at least if your doing full volume mashes. The regular biab brewers will be better at answering those questions. Cheers

 

[Qhrumphf]

If you are able/willing to hold the bag yourself (or lift by hand and place into a collander), BIAB actually works VERY well for indoor stovetop brewing, especially for really small batches.

 

[LittleRiver]

...Because BIAB requires brewing outdoors....

Not correct. Lots of people BIAB indoors.

... my stove-top... no possibly way in hell that I could throw a huge hulking grain back in there, and add a pully system in my kitchen for this. It just isn't feasible given the space....

That's why it's a good thing there are many ways to brew. It's up to you to decide what works best in your particular situation. Your kitchen may not be a good fit. Other kitchens, basements, etc., work fine.

... For BIAB, people don't splarge. Why is that? It's not any different in this regard, so why not splarge to extract more sugars?

For "normal" ~6%ABV beers I hit or exceed recipe targets without separate sparge steps. So for those kinds of beers I don't bother with a separate sparge, there's no reason to unnecessarily complicate the process.

I say "separate sparge" because there is always an integrated sparge in the basic BIAB process. When the bag is removed, the grain is being rinsed.

If I want a higher ABV I have the option of doing additional sparge steps. On my last brew I did a separate dunk sparge step.

 

[fendersrule]

I have like, .75" above my kettle to the microwave. BIAB is not going to happen in doors for me. Many other people have similar constraints in their kitchen. You may not like the reason, but other people probably will list this as a reason too. This thread is titled "why doesn't everyone BIAB", so you don't have to like or agree to the reasons, this reason is true for me.

My last brew was outside, so I'm slowly getting to BIAB method. brewing outside is way more fun and easy too.

Upon reading, it is possible to brew a 10 gallon all-grain batch in a 15 gallon kettle. So I'll have to give it a shot.

The same can be said about an integrated splarge in partial extract brewing. the fact that you're removing the muslin socks and placing it on a rack above the kettle counts as a slarge I guess. Being outside was nice because I simply just took a hose to it with a low-pressure nozzle and rinsed it. I still feel like I'd want to do the same if I BIAB'd. It takes only a few minutes. Plus you'll have to add more water to the kettle anyways (assuming this is true for BIAB)....why not run it through the grains first?

For partial mashing, splarging is zero extra steps because you still need to add water to get to your pre-boil volume. If BIAB means you START with your pre-boil volume for mashing, then it's definitely an extra step. I haven't read up entirely on BIAB yet, but I would guess it's not true that you start with your-pre boil volume for mashing the grains.

EEK: Just read that the entire pre-boil volume is used for the mash. Now I'm scared of using a 15 gallon pot for a 10 gallon batch. I may continue to extract brew for longer.

 

[LittleRiver]

...You may not like the reason...you don't have to like or agree to the reasons, this reason is true for me....

You seem to be putting things into what I said, things I didn't actually say or mean.

...Just read that the entire pre-boil volume is used for the mash. Now I'm scared of using a 15 gallon pot for a 10 gallon batch. I may continue to extract brew for longer.

It's not mandatory to do a full volume mash in BIAB. You can mash with half your water volume, and get the rest from a separate sparge step. That way you can most certainly do a 10gal batch in a 15gal kettle.

While a full volume mash is not mandatory, it is a great method. For 5gal batches of "normal" ABV beers, it is standard practice for me.

 

[jrgtr42]

Honestly, I don't care how other people brew, and I don't get why anyone cares how I do.
If BIAB works for you, great. If 3V or any of the other options work for you, great.
I do brew 3V - mostly because BIAB wasn't really a thing when I started - at least not to the level it is now, and partly for equipment limitations. Until recently I had a couple 8-gallon pots, and upgrading wasn't in the cards. I now have a 10-gallon, and I may try BIAB somewhere down the line.
I did do what I called modified BIAB when I first went all-grain - I used a mesh bag in my bottling bucket, did the mash and sparge in that - I only had one pot big enough to heat my water in - I ran off into my fermenting bucket, transferred the sparge water into the mash, then dumped into the pot to start the boil. It worked well enough, but when I got a deal on a cooler and length of tubing, I built up my mash tun. Had to add a good valve and a handful of angles, plus some elbow grease and a couple Dremel cutoff wheels and was done.

 

[RM-MN]

EEK: Just read that the entire pre-boil volume is used for the mash. Now I'm scared of using a 15 gallon pot for a 10 gallon batch. I may continue to extract brew for longer.

You don't have to use the entire pre-boil volume. You can mash with what fits your kettle, then either sparge to volume or if your efficiency is high enough, simply add water to dilute, then boil back to the proper volume.

Here's a neat calculator that will tell you if your grains and full volume of water will fit.

https://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml

 

[fendersrule]

Yea, the calculators out there probably match what I do. I usually do 1.5 qt per lb of grain. I have no problem going more than that too just to make sure the grain is fully submerged (I have a wide 15 gallon pot, not a tall one)...I may even go 2 qt or possibly more at times, just depends how much grains I'm using per a particular beer.

But that's good to know that BIAB doesn't require going full pre-boil during mashing, because that would have immediately ruled it out for me...I'm not ready to spend hundreds on a new pot yet. I'm pretty happy with my 15 gallon kettle that I got from a friend, though I wish it had an integrated thermometer which would make mashing more easy. It's super basic, no valves or ports or anything. I siphon my wort.

Wildy guestimating here...if I use 12lbs of grain for a double batch for a partial mash, I would probably be using aroudn 24lbs of grains for BIAB. 24 x 2 = 48qt of water needed for mashing. That right there is already 12 gallons, which pretty much pre-boil for a double batch. If I used 1.5 quarts per pound that would be 9 gallons.

It'l be tight doing a BIAB with a 15 gallon kettle but should be doable!

 

[LittleRiver]

... happy with my 15 gallon kettle that I got from a friend, though I wish it had an integrated thermometer which would make mashing more easy. It's super basic, no valves or ports or anything. I siphon my wort...

Be aware the temp probe can tear your bag unless you are very careful not to do so. For that reason I chose not to put a thermometer in my kettle, and instead use a digital thermometer with a wired remote probe.

The worth of my drain valve far exceeds what it cost me to buy the parts and install them.

 

[fendersrule]

Ooh, digital thermometer that's remote? Can you post a link? I'm really interested in this. That way, I can fully close my kettle during mashing to help keep the temps up.

 

[LittleRiver]

Ooh, digital thermometer that's remote? Can you post a link? I'm really interested in this. That way, I can fully close my kettle during mashing to help keep the temps up.

Thermoworks ChefAlarm. I like the hi/lo temp alarms and the built-in timer. In this post there's more info.

 

[RM-MN]

Wildy guestimating here...if I use 12lbs of grain for a double batch for a partial mash, I would probably be using aroudn 24lbs of grains for BIAB. 24 x 2 = 48qt of water needed for mashing. That right there is already 12 gallons, which pretty much pre-boil for a double batch. If I used 1.5 quarts per pound that would be 9 gallons.

Before you do too much calculating on the amount of water and grains to use to fit a 10 gallon batch in your 15 gallon pot, do a smaller batch to see where your brewhouse efficiency falls. If you own a mill and set it tight to maximize the efficiency, you may find that you don't need as much grain as you think. With my small batches and double sparging to get the pre-boil volume (due to too small of a pot) I tend to use about 5 pounds of grain for a 3 gallon batch. That would make your grain bill about 18 pounds, quite a bit less than the 24 you are estimating.

 

[z-bob]

With my small batches and double sparging to get the pre-boil volume (due to too small of a pot) I tend to use about 5 pounds of grain for a 3 gallon batch. That would make your grain bill about 18 pounds, quite a bit less than the 24 you are estimating.

I use about 7.5 to 8 pounds of malt for 4 gallons, and I never brew anything under 5.5% ABV. (I've tried brewing lower alcohol beers and I'm not good enough yet; they turn out too "thin" and watery)

 

[wilserbrewer]

Ooh, digital thermometer that's remote? Can you post a link? I'm really interested in this. That way, I can fully close my kettle during mashing to help keep the temps up.

Eventually w/ experience I think you will realize that you don’t need the remote thermometer, once you attain a good mash temp, insulate the kettle and don’t think or look at it.

Your mash temp losses will be minor and predictable to the point you don’t need to watch via remote

Rdwhahb

 

[LittleRiver]

Eventually w/ experience I think you will realize that you don’t need the remote thermometer...

I would agree with you if the assumption is that the thermometer is used to constantly check the mash temp, but that's a bad assumption.

What I do is set the hi alarm a couple of degrees below my strike temp and go do other things while the mash water is heating with the lid on. It beeps me when the water is ready.

During the mash I don't really monitor the temp, but I do set the timer to beep me when the mash is over, because I'm off doing other things. If it's really cold I have the option of setting a low alarm to beep me to add some heat, but my insulation works well enough that I don't bother with a low alarm.

When ramping up to a boil, I set the hi alarm for a few degrees below boiling and go do other things.

Remote probe thermometers are great, especially if they have temp alarms and timers built in. It's all the automation I need.

 

[Waunabeer]

Well, I just completed my first brew with using electric and biab (eBIAB). All I can say is that is was the smoothest and most accurate batch I've ever brewed in my 9 years. I love the accuracy and ease of use of electric vs. NG and the brew bag vs. cooler was simple and fast to use and clean.

I ground my grains to 0.025, which seemed to be the sweet spot. My brew house efficiency was 79.2%. The grain absorption and/or evaporation rate was a litte off vs the predicted amount in beersmith. I had more liquid than expected, which probably hurt my pre-boil gravity reading a tad. (est. 1.040 vs. actual of 1.036). So I boiled about 10 minutes longer and ended up hitting my OG exactly at 1.050.

So overall I am extremely happy with my first attempt at not only electric brewing, but also BIAB (using Ss Brewtech 1v and a Brew Bag). I wish I would have converted earlier.

 

[Blazinlow86]

View attachment 608880 Well, I just completed my first brew with using electric and biab (eBIAB). All I can say is that is was the smoothest and most accurate batch I've ever brewed in my 9 years. I love the accuracy and ease of use of electric vs. NG and the brew bag vs. cooler was simple and fast to use and clean.

I ground my grains to 0.025, which seemed to be the sweet spot. My brew house efficiency was 79.2%. The grain absorption and/or evaporation rate was a litte off vs the predicted amount in beersmith. I had more liquid than expected, which probably hurt my pre-boil gravity reading a tad. (est. 1.040 vs. actual of 1.036). So I boiled about 10 minutes longer and ended up hitting my OG exactly at 1.050.

So overall I am extremely happy with my first attempt at not only electric brewing, but also BIAB (using Ss Brewtech 1v and a Brew Bag). I wish I would have converted earlier.

Once you go electric you won't ever go back. Cheers

 

[BarleyStanding]

My last brew was outside, so I'm slowly getting to BIAB method. brewing outside is way more fun .

I agree, regardless of method, brewing outside is just more fun. I usually brew in the garage, but sometimes join a group brew on a friend's deck. It's a little more distracting, but a lot more fun. BIAB lends itself to portability.

 

[BarleyStanding]

Once you go electric you won't ever go back. Cheers

I've been eyeing that, 240v. I hear they're going to offer something with a lot more bells and whistles later this year.

 

[swimIan]

View attachment 608880 Well, I just completed my first brew with using electric and biab (eBIAB). All I can say is that is was the smoothest and most accurate batch I've ever brewed in my 9 years. I love the accuracy and ease of use of electric vs. NG and the brew bag vs. cooler was simple and fast to use and clean.

I ground my grains to 0.025, which seemed to be the sweet spot. My brew house efficiency was 79.2%. The grain absorption and/or evaporation rate was a litte off vs the predicted amount in beersmith. I had more liquid than expected, which probably hurt my pre-boil gravity reading a tad. (est. 1.040 vs. actual of 1.036). So I boiled about 10 minutes longer and ended up hitting my OG exactly at 1.050.

So overall I am extremely happy with my first attempt at not only electric brewing, but also BIAB (using Ss Brewtech 1v and a Brew Bag). I wish I would have converted earlier.

Did you recirculate too?

 

[eric19312]

So this thread convinced me to order a brewing bag in hopes it will make cleaning my mash tun easier. Sticking with 3 vessel but really curious to see if hoisting the bag of spent grain is easier way to muck out my mash tun.

So I did my first batch incorporating a brewbag into my 3 vessel system. Worked great and did make mash tun clean up a lot easier. This was a 16 gallon batch with a modest grain bill. Target OG 1.050 about 28 pounds of grain. Solved my grain under the false bottom issue and disposal was easy. Let the bag drip more or less dry and cool, the lowered into a hefty bag, reached in and grabbed bag by the bottom seam and pulled it out. Rinsed when I rinsed the mash tun (using my chiller water) and hung it up to dry.

Here is a pic of the fabric filter fitting in my mash tun with the autosparge. Thanks @wilserbrewer !

 

[dwhite60]

I guess historically malt was a pretty pricey proposition especially making a non-essential (some will argue this) food item like beer.

Therefore sparging to increase overall efficiency made a lot of sense. With poorly modified malts especially the old English "brown malt" you had to work to get your efficiency up. These days, if you have low efficiency, you simply add more malt. It's cheap and highly available. You're getting much better extract per pound now more than ever so BIAB is more efficient overall.

No reason you could not have done brew in a bag 300 years ago with say, sail cloth. Wouldn't last as long as modern fibers, nylon, but no reason it wouldn't work. My bet is somebody DID try it at some point but didn't get the efficiency they could sparging.

All the Best,
D. White

 

[Velnerj]

OK guys, I had a horribly stuck sparge this weekend perhaps due to a grain bill of nearly 35% rye plus some flaked grains. DYI Bazooka strainer couldn't handle it and I'm thinking about using a MIAB set up for my 5g igloo round cooler. What bag would you suggest I get? Thx

 

[RM-MN]

OK guys, I had a horribly stuck sparge this weekend perhaps due to a grain bill of nearly 35% rye plus some flaked grains. DYI Bazooka strainer couldn't handle it and I'm thinking about using a MIAB set up for my 5g igloo round cooler. What bag would you suggest I get? Thx

I'd suggest you check with one of the menbers here, Wilserbrewer and have a bag made that fits your cooler properly. His bags have a reputation of being of high quality and good fit.

 

[NewJersey]

I'd suggest you check with one of the menbers here, Wilserbrewer and have a bag made that fits your cooler properly. His bags have a reputation of being of high quality and good fit.

seconded. just need to tell him dimensions and you'll have it in a hurry. great bag even BETTER vendor.

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I'm floored by the heated debate on this. BIAB is a viable option, but it's not for everyone and, to be honest, asking why everyone doesn't do it is a troll-type post. I started mashing in a cooler with a bazooka tube filter and batch sparging. Now I do a hybrid....I use a bag in my cooler MLT and still do a batch sparge. Why? Some of the beers I brew are very high gravity (like 1.128+) and doing those in a no-sparge environment is a losing battle. There's an easy calculation to determine what gravity you should get given a known grain bill and water amount. Getting to 1.128 requires a super thick mash. That reduces your efficiency requiring even more grains and, ultimately, it's just not really a recipe for success. I also like that I have less MLT dead space by getting rid of the bazooka and drawing from the little well by the cooler drain.

I like to use the same system for every brew as it makes it more simple to have a consistent process. So my process works for me, which is the general answer to the OP. Everyone does what works for them whether the driving forces are beer style, budget, desire to tinker, desire to emulate commercial systems, shorter brew day...whatever the reason. That's why everyone doesn't BIAB and, quite frankly, I find your implication with the question to be insulting.

 

[Bobby_M]

I'm floored by the heated debate on this. BIAB is a viable option, but it's not for everyone and, to be honest, asking why everyone doesn't do it is a troll-type post. I started mashing in a cooler with a bazooka tube filter and batch sparging. Now I do a hybrid....I use a bag in my cooler MLT and still do a batch sparge. Why? Some of the beers I brew are very high gravity (like 1.128+) and doing those in a no-sparge environment is a losing battle. There's an easy calculation to determine what gravity you should get given a known grain bill and water amount. Getting to 1.128 requires a super thick mash. That reduces your efficiency requiring even more grains and, ultimately, it's just not really a recipe for success. I also like that I have less MLT dead space by getting rid of the bazooka and drawing from the little well by the cooler drain.

I like to use the same system for every brew as it makes it more simple to have a consistent process. So my process works for me, which is the general answer to the OP. Everyone does what works for them whether the driving forces are beer style, budget, desire to tinker, desire to emulate commercial systems, shorter brew day...whatever the reason. That's why everyone doesn't BIAB and, quite frankly, I find your implication with the question to be insulting.

You just answered his question in a very rational way. There is no reason to be insulted.

 

[Gravelscratcher]

This thread has pretty much run its course...at least as far as debate is concerned.
At this point, it's just regurgitation of the same opinions.

 

[bwible]

I mash in a 5 gallon Gott cooler with a stainless false bottom and a ball valve. I did recently add a brew bag to that. I would not say I brew in a bag though. I still do a traditional mash and sparge. And I mash and sparge in a seperate vessel than the one I boil and/or ferment in, obviously.

The only things I like the bag for are 1) There is something to be said in that it acts as an additional screen to keep grain out from under the false bottom. I had been fighting with that on occasion. And 2) it makes the spent grain easier to remove and the mash tun easier to clean as others have said. I plan to add a small pump to my setup for recirculation and grain getting into the pump was an additional concern for me.

The scale works for me because I typically brew 3 gallon batches to fill my 3 gallon kegs. I know I am not speaking for everyone.

I do have a thermometer through the cooler wall which is a concern 1) that the bag could hang up and get a hole and 2) in that I wonder whether my temp reading is accurate now due to the bag.