Why Do US Brewers Try To Replicate Branded Beers ?

[jmwc95]

Long post coming up....
First somre background information on myself.
Im a chef, 45 years old and been cooking since the age of 15. Ive worked in the "Executive" role of most 3* Michelin restuarants throughout Europe. I retired last year. I now work(part time) as a Judge for the BCF ( British Culinary Federation)( Google my name).
Sorry, Ive got to go now TBC

You are British, so the severely damages your culinary street cred. That also damages your craft brewing credibility as well. Come over to this side of the pond, and you will find many beers that blow your beer out of the water. Many of the best microbreweries on this side of the pond brew beer to win awards in addition to selling their beer. They formulate a beer that they think tastes the best, then they price it according to the cost to make, unlike American macrobreweries where they pick their ingredients to lower cost. The craft brewers parade their beer around to different contests to gain recognition for their beer. American craft beer consumers will flock to these breweries that are highly reviewed, regardless of price. Some of these good craft breweries include Russian River Brewing Company, Bear Republic, Great Divide, Bells, Founders, North Coast, Three Floyds, to name just a couple. As good as I may be at brewing, I think it's fair to say I will probably NEVER make anything as good as Russian River Brewing company (although I feel my last American IPA compares pretty favorably to Bear Republic's Racer 5).

Have you had a Pliny the Elder?

Have you had a Dark Lord Imperial Stout?

Have you had a Hop Rod Rye?

Have you had a Dreadnaught IPA?

A Founders Kentucky Breakfast Stout?

If you haven't, you can't say your beer is better.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

Homebrewers as a group have aweful taste IME. I find threads like this funny.

HB#1: My beer is so awesome, it is the best in the world.
HB#2: No it isn't, get real. You honestly think that you brew better beer than commercial brewers?
HB#1: Yeah, I brew for me!
HB#2: blah blah blah
HB#1: blah blah blah

No one here brews beer better than the good craft brewers. If you are, why are you still in your day job? Brewing something that is great to hand out to friends is one thing, making product someone will pay money for is completely different.

I don't understand people's fixations with thinking their beer is so awesome. Get over it. Have fun with the hobby and do the best you can.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I think you could draw an analogy to music. Most beginner musicians start by copying other's material. It's a GREAT way to learn. Sure, the beginner COULD just start making music and claiming it to be the best music evar. They may LOVE the noises they are making but chances are they are not making great music (at least not to everbody else's ears). And they love the fact that they never actually make a 'mistake'.

 

[Synovia]

They formulate a beer that they think tastes the best, then they price it according to the cost to make, unlike American macrobreweries where they pick their ingredients to lower cost..

Can we put this myth to bed? Seriously?


American Macro doesn't use adjuncts because they're cheap. They use adjuncts because thats what their customers wanted when the recipes were derived.

When these recipes were derived, americans had access to much more food than most of the world. We all had access to meat. Americans no longer wanted beer to be a meal. They wanted something light to go WITH their meal.

When these beers were first brewed, they were significantly MORE expensive than all barley beers, to brew, and to buy.

 

[david_42]

Another factor is the sheer size of the USA and how the distribution of alcoholic beverages varies from state to state. If I hear about an East Coast beer, I may have no choice but to brew a clone recipe, because it is only distributed in three states. There are states where limits on the ABV of beer prevents the distribution of high-gravity IPAs, Belgians, and barley wines.

 

[slowbie]

There are states where limits on the ABV of beer prevents the distribution of high-gravity IPAs, Belgians, and barley wines.

It makes me sad just thinking about this.

 

[humann_brewing]

I do this because I can't get a lot of the beers I have grown up to like and even if I come close to the taste I am happy.

 

[mojotele]

NO NO NO they dont.. They make a product that they can sell. None of my beers have ever, or will be sold

Personal preference is great and all, and I agree that it is difficult/impossible to say which beer is "best."

But, the quoted post seems to imply that his beers are the best simply because he doesn't sell them. The act of selling beer makes the beer worse or leads to changes that make it worse. That's a very silly thing to say.

 

[Houblon]

No one here brews beer better than the good craft brewers. If you are, why are you still in your day job? .

I have some HB that was far better than some craft beers, why Hbers don't have to watch the cost of making beers or worry that the beer will only sell to a niche market.

Can we put this myth to bed? Seriously?


American Macro doesn't use adjuncts because they're cheap. They use adjuncts because thats what their customers wanted when the recipes were derived.

When these recipes were derived, americans had access to much more food than most of the world. We all had access to meat. Americans no longer wanted beer to be a meal. They wanted something light to go WITH their meal.

When these beers were first brewed, they were significantly MORE expensive than all barley beers, to brew, and to buy.

Really? better study history alittle more, corn was used in place of malt to save money. Same for the Belgian brewers using sugar--- its cheaper than malt.

 

[jmwc95]

Can we put this myth to bed? Seriously?


American Macro doesn't use adjuncts because they're cheap. They use adjuncts because thats what their customers wanted when the recipes were derived.

When these recipes were derived, americans had access to much more food than most of the world. We all had access to meat. Americans no longer wanted beer to be a meal. They wanted something light to go WITH their meal.

When these beers were first brewed, they were significantly MORE expensive than all barley beers, to brew, and to buy.

That's not what I was talking about.

American macrobrewers are focused on two things: drinkability and cost. They want a beer that doesn't offend anyone's palate. Don't like malty beer? Fine, here is a beer with just pilsner malt and it's dry as heck. Don't like hoppy beers? Fine, this beer has 7 IBUs.

With every new beer they make (say, Select 55), it's all about being able to produce it for a price where they can sell it below $5 for a six pack and have the beer taste as nondescript as possible. I have a friend that worked for ABInBev, and they were all about driving down the cost, with less concern about affecting the taste, just as long as it didn't completely change the flavor. They made one change a couple years back that they had to completely undo because it screwed things up. I know they recently installed several giant cross-flow membrane systems to recover every last drop of yeast. It's all about the bottom line for those companies. As long as a change they make doesn't change the beer enough for customers to stop buying, they will continuously drive down the cost, regardless of whether or not it is a good practice.

 

[heywolfie1015]

But, the quoted post seems to imply that his beers are the best simply because he doesn't sell them. The act of selling beer makes the beer worse or leads to changes that make it worse. That's a very silly thing to say.

Well said.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

No one here brews beer better than the good craft brewers. If you are, why are you still in your day job? Brewing something that is great to hand out to friends is one thing, making product someone will pay money for is completely different.

All due respect but, I make a cheeseburger at home that is leaps and bounds better than anything available at McD's, BK, Wendy's, or Braum's combined but, in no way does that mean I wish to make a living doing it.

Furthermore, I am solicited frequently for beer purchases for parties and functions. How does that have any correlation to quality comparisons of an established commercial bnrewery?

Ha. I get what you are saying. But, I have been the route of taking a hobby and turning it into an income source and it was a miserable experience. No thank you. Even "if" I could earn a living brewing beer. at this point in my life there is no way in hades that I am starting over from the bottom. And, no matter how well received your product is, it is a an extremely rare occasion that an established brewery will turn over their tuns to anyone with little more than a homebrew recipe book.

 

[brewagentjay]

Can't we all just agree that it's a matter of taste on who's is the best, and as long as you and possibly your friends like it then gravy....

Also can we all agree saying your beer is the best is a Pride thing...

Also can we all agree that perhaps Johnyboy went a little far...

Finally can we all agree and put the orginal question to bed that nothing wrong with a clone and there are many good reasons to do so...

Lastly can we all just drink some brew and enjoy....

 

[Synovia]

All due respect but, I make a cheeseburger at home that is leaps and bounds better than anything available at McD's, BK, Wendy's, or Braum's combined but, in no way does that mean I wish to make a living doing it.

Why do people always resort to this? McDonalds makes a specific style of cheeseburger. Do you think you make a better cheeseburger than a good cheeseburger joint? Every good cheeseburger joint?


We're talking about craft beer here, not the lowest common denominator.

 

[shecky]

Why? Why not? No reason to climb the mountain you've already climbed, yet people do it.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Why do people always resort to this? McDonalds makes a specific style of cheeseburger. Do you think you make a better cheeseburger than a good cheeseburger joint? Every good cheeseburger joint?


We're talking about craft beer here, not the lowest common denominator.

Same difference. Craft/Macro beer. Craft/Macro burgers. Point is that just because someone does something well does not mean they must enter a commercial market to validate it.

The perception of excellence be it in beer or burgers is no different. either comes down to chance in mixing ingredient in a favorable manner or aggressive marketing.

 

[Synovia]

Same difference. Craft/Macro beer. Craft/Macro burgers. Point is that just because someone does something well does not mean they must enter a commercial market to validate it.

The perception of excellence be it in beer or burgers is no different. either comes down to chance in mixing ingredient in a favorable manner or aggressive marketing.

Oh, I agree, but the OP is making the argument that his beer is better than ALL commercial beer. Not that its better than just Macro.

 

[springer]

These threads always go this way .... Who the hell cares? I brew what I like and buy what I like . And brewing a clone no matter who you are isn't going to taste the exact same as the original unless you use their equipment water and method of brewing. Will it taste good ?most likely, better ?maybe ,worse? again maybe.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

Oh, I agree, but the OP is making the argument that his beer is better than ALL commercial beer. Not that its better than just Macro.

But we all know that statement is BS because the only way to know would be to have tried ALL commercial beers and we know he hasn't done that.

McDonalds makes cheeseburgers? I've always thought a quarter pounder with cheese is NOT a cheeseburger. It's a unique thing, it's a McDonalds quarter pounder with cheese, that's it, nothing more, nothing less (literally ). Just when you thought this thread could sink no lower...I'm here for you.

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

The operative word in my post was "good" craft beer. The beer I brew is indeed better than many commercial beers. It is not, however, in the same league as what I would consider good craft beer.

 

[phatuna]

Where did the OP get his data arguing that brewers from the US enjoy cloning more than people from other parts of the world?

I think the answer is because we are all herded like cattle in the US and nobody has a mind of our own, so we just copy what others before us have done. It's way easier that way and we have learned to enjoy mediocraty here in the US.

 

[LVBen]

I could make a 5-gallon Stone IPA clone for less than $20 in ingredients and few extra costs here and there (Gas and electric bills, bottle caps, expendable equipment, etc.). For me to buy that much Stone IPA at the store would be over $120. No, probably not all clones will be cheaper than the commercial product for a brewer, but in many cases, you can save lots of money by brewing your own.

 

[D_Struct]

I'm really doing commercial clones for the simple reason of wanting to see if I can somewhat accurately replicate a beer's taste, appearance, etc. It gives me a benchmark w/ a testable sample. I can simply compare the two.

If the first dozen or so go the way I want, and I feel like I'm grasping the clones and the entire brewing process (after moving through extract, mini-mash and all grain versions), I'll feel more comfortable striking out on my own.

If I still enjoy making commercial knock-offs, I might try to add something to them. I might make some slight changes to the original recipe that I find appealing. Who knows? It's a hobby. It's supposed to be about what the individual wants to do with it, not what someone else thinks they should do with it.

 

[D_Struct]

Fair comment

The clone that I am currently fermenting was from the Celis Brewery, which closed down in Austin sometime in the early 2000s. I used to go the the brewery regularly.

Michigan Brewing Co. purchased the name and recipe much later, but it's only distributed in Michigan, presently.

Sounded like a good enough reason to me.

 

[slowbie]

The clone that I am currently fermenting was from the Celis Brewery, which closed down in Austin sometime in the early 2000s. I used to go the the brewery regularly.

Michigan Brewing Co. purchased the name and recipe much later, but it's only distributed in Michigan, presently.

Sounded like a good enough reason to me.

What beer is it? Should I check it out?

 

[ArcaneXor]

No, it doesn't.

Personal Preference is personal preference. Saying "I like my homebrew better" is completely different than saying "Its a fact that my homebrew IS better beer".

One is a subjective thing. The other involves blind taste tests by qualified judges of the style.

It's homebrew... the only thing that matters is how the brewer likes it. What some anonymous judge thinks about it is meaningless.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

What beer is it? Should I check it out?

It was a Pierre Cellis collaborative offshoot of the former Hoegaarden wit. The beer made at Autin was touted by Celis as extremely close to his original product. A beer that has over the years been dumbed down to what you can now buy as the Hoegaarden Wit.

A good beer. I'd be thrilled to taste what the original wit was all about. It is described as being crisper, brighter, with more lactic twang than what is found today.

 

[D_Struct]

What beer is it? Should I check it out?

Well, if you can find Celis, there's a good chance it's good. My personal opinion, of course.

They still make a Celis White, Grand Cru, Celis Raspberry and a Pale Bock.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celis

 

[olllllo]

Hmmm. Perhaps I'm mistaken in my thinking that all UK homebrewers are obsessed with making their Granddads version of Newcastle.

 

[Cape Brewing]

I think the real questions here are whether or not Warwickshire, UK is hiding weapons of mass destruction and then whether or not we should nuke dem bastids back to the stone age!!!


On a half serious note, I don't think I realized we colonists really cloned more than anyone else or that we even do it a lot. I have 8 or 9 beers going right now. One is clone because it is a fantastic beer (Russian River's Consecration), one is in the ballpark of a clone (Clipper City IPA... because I just happen to really like that IPA) and then the rest aren't clones at all.

So... on the clones, I guess I'll offer up what other have already... that there's challenge in it to see if you can get it dead on and then secondarily... I think people just happen to really like certain beers... so... if you're into brewing, why not try to brew a beer you know you really like?