Why do companies keep producing bad quality yeast?

[fredthecat]

I'm thinking specifically of Fermentis S-23. I love fermentis and overwhelmingly use their stuff, but I also see new brewshops just opening recently and they are selling S23, but not W34/70. From the horrible reviews of S23, why would anyone do this? Maybe fermentis just wants to keep suppling this product, but why would a homebrew store?

I know that inevitably someone will say "i use s23 and i like it", but W34 is just a clean, straightforward lager yeast that generally gets good reviews. I took one look online and chose W34 over S23.

So, does anyone have any insight on this or comparable bad yeasts that have been around forever?

 

[beerme70]

I have a lager I am waiting to keg, and I used the 34/70 for the first time. I can't wait to see (taste) the results. I drank the sample from my last gravity reading, and it was pretty darn good.

 

[flars]

Ask the owner if they will begin stocking the yeast. The owner may have had previous experience with this yeast not being in great demand, and died of old age on the shelf.

 

[wailingguitar]

I honestly don't understand how/why people have bad results with S23. I have used it at home and commercially since it was first introduced to the market (around '99). Bo Pils, Doppelbock, Maibock, Marzen, etc., all with great results. When dropping the temp slowly you can actually get active fermentation sub 40F. Did that with Bo Pils and the beer was very clean with a nice, round, maltiness. I can't even figure out HOW to make it behave badly for me (other than the obvious ferment at 70F+)I have fermented it very cold, on the warmer 55F side, non-pressure fermentation and spundig, never experienced a single off flavor that people attribute to it. Weird.

 

[fredthecat]

interesting post, i will say that i once used nottingham and got awful results. but heard later that there were some bad batches of nottingham.
i've never used s23, but would never risk it because of what people say online.

 

[jjbuckler]

yep, I don't get it either. I've had great results with S-23. Just used it for a Vienna Lager recently, and turned out pretty much how I wanted it- clean and malty. I've heard people talk about S-23, but haven't experienced it.

But as always, YMMV. Maybe I've just been lucky. If I had seen bad reviews of it before I used it, it might have given me pause to think though.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I wouldn't use such a broad brush when trying to paint a picture of using any type of yeast strain, there's just way too many variables that can change the outcome of it's performance. If you're uncertain as to how the yeast was handled during shipping and storage proofing it before pitching it will give you an indication as will making a starter when the yeast is in liquid form.

 

[QuercusMax]

I've only had bad experiences with two lager yeasts: S-23 and WLP820. First generation of S-23 produced a helles that tasted like buttery grape soda. Second gen was better in a Dortmunder, but still very fruity.

WLP820 produced an OK steam beer, but for actual lager styles it took an incredibly long time to attenuate, and still came out fruity and eventually got infected, likely due to sitting for such a long time at 1.030.

I've had great success with WLP838, 833, 860, and W34/70. I got an expired vial of WLP802 which was good for the first two generations, but due to my mishandling got infected.

 

[Mirilis]

I made a 10 gallon batch of Helles, One i fermented with S-23 the other with W34/70. Both beers came out very tasty and clean. The W34/70 had better malt character at first and then the S-23 caught up after a month in the keg or so.

I cant say that either one was better or worse than the other, but I took that experience and just bought a 500g brick of W34/70

 

[Talgrath]

I'm thinking specifically of Fermentis S-23. I love fermentis and overwhelmingly use their stuff, but I also see new brewshops just opening recently and they are selling S23, but not W34/70. From the horrible reviews of S23, why would anyone do this? Maybe fermentis just wants to keep suppling this product, but why would a homebrew store?

I know that inevitably someone will say "i use s23 and i like it", but W34 is just a clean, straightforward lager yeast that generally gets good reviews. I took one look online and chose W34 over S23.

So, does anyone have any insight on this or comparable bad yeasts that have been around forever?

Not everyone has problems with S-23 and quite a lot of people like the strain; if it wasn't popular the company wouldn't keep making it. From personal experience my doublebock made with the strain came out quite tasty and within the range of fermentation I expected. That said, it's possible the strain is less consistent or perhaps that if it isn't stored properly it will do poorly. It's also very possible there was a bad batch of the stuff and that is the source of the online reviews.