Why bother with carboys and blow-off tubes?

[Beernik]

Glass is not a good conductor of heat. The reason you can cook with glassware is because it is thin. The reason you can grab the glass handle on the pot while it's on the burner is because glass is a poor conductor if heat.

A glass carboy is not as thin as a Pyrex pan. And a plastic bucket is a lot thinner than a Pyrex pan or a glass carboy.

Your argument would work it we were talking about 1/2" thick wall of plastic vs a 1/2" thick wall of glass. Instead we are talking about a 1/16" plastic wall vs a 1/2" thick glass wall.

 

[user 144271]

Literally dozens of threads on this subject.

In short: Carboys allow you to more easily watch fermentation activity, lower theoretical oxygen permeability, less prone to infection (theoretically), some people are worried about leaching chemicals from plastic, less headspace for secondary/long term storage, etc.

I've always been in the bucket camp myself though, but I can see the attraction of carboys.

I always find that interesting. I wonder if anyone ever worries about lead leaching from glass carboys?

 

[raouliii]

Glass is not a good conductor of heat. .....

True, but brewing bucket plastic is even worse.

.....its thermal conductivity (Glass 1.05 W/(m.K)) is al least double that of high density polyethylene's thermal conductivity (HDPE 0.42-0.51 W/(m.K)). (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)

FWIW, I use glass for fermentation because it's hard to scratch and therefore, easy to clean and sanitize.

 

[user 144271]

not sure but I think that is more perception than reality
especially if it is FDA approved. I am willing to bet the cheap foreign carboys are not FDA approved

 

[Beernik]

True, but brewing bucket plastic is even worse.

Measure the thickness of a plastic bucket and measure the thickness of a glass carboy. I guarantee you the glass carboy is at least 8 times as thick.

 

[rhys333]

Glass electrically insulates well, but its thermal conductivity (Glass 1.05 W/(m.K)) is al least double that of high density polyethylene's thermal conductivity (HDPE 0.42-0.51 W/(m.K)). (http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html)

This is true, though calculations factor in thickness as well. I estimate my bucket is at least half thickness of my carboy, which puts them about the same I would think.

 

[divrguy]

Here you go my friend:
http://www.mainbrew.com/Brewcraft-8-Gallon-Plastic-Fermenter-and-Lid-Prodview.html

Thats not see through?

 

[rhys333]

Thats not see through?

It doesn't look to be in the picture, but it is... at least the one I have is, which is identical in shape. Its translucent enough you can see the tiniest particles swirling around during active fermentation.

 

[rhys333]

Thats not see through?

This should help as a visual

 

[raouliii]

not sure but I think that is more perception than reality
especially if it is FDA approved. I am willing to bet the cheap foreign carboys are not FDA approved

If that is in response to my contention that glass is easier to clean and sanitize, I beg to differ. Plastic is FAR easier to scratch than glass and it is a well accepted belief in the food industry that scratches in plastic are very difficult to clean and sanitize.

 

[mikescooling]

My question to you, is why doesn't everyone use sanke kegs as fermenters? They are great, and when it's time to rack, you can use co2 to make the jump, (with the spears locked back in).

 

[rhys333]

My question to you, is why doesn't everyone use sanke kegs as fermenters? They are great, and when it's time to rack, you can use co2 to make the jump, (with the spears locked back in).

I honestly don't know. Can you elabotate on this?

 

[mikescooling]

You can get them new or used, my home brew club has a connection for em, and they are sold online. They come in all sizes. They are food grade SS, so they block out light. They come with a skirt which works great as a stand. The better bottle airlocks fit them. When you want to rack, you use sanke couplers to push the beer with CO2. You have to take the flow check valve out of one of the coupler and I use a spear/dip tube that I cut an inch off the shaft, so it's not on the bottom when I rack. I also serve in sanke's, so I jump from the fermenter to the serving keg. The couplers are bomb proof. I have no idea why this isn't talked about more.

 

[day_trippr]

[...]I have no idea why this isn't talked about more.

Inertia?

With a bazillion corny style kegs being decommissioned over the last twenty years or more in favor of BiB there was a humongous supply of cheap stainless steel vessels being dumped that were easy to use and easy to clean. Meanwhile, Sanke kegs were almost always "Property Of Someone" and as they're still used by the beer industry they're still in demand.

Isn't home brewer use of 1/6th Sankes a fairly recent paradigm?

Cheers!

 

[BBBF]

Yeap. Cornies flooded the market and they were cheap. Why wouldn't you use them when they were only $10. And 1/6bbl sankes and tall 1/4bbl are relatively new. The only kegs I used to see were BMC 1/2 and short 1/4. Not great sizes if you several beers on tap, but maybe good for fermenters. However, that better bottle cap you recommended is fairly new too.

Now that the price of used cornies isn't too far off from the price of new cornies, which isn't too far off from a new, Chinese made ones. Not to mention the legal and illegal underground markets of sankes that don't make it back to the brewer.

 

[rhys333]

You can get them new or used, my home brew club has a connection for em, and they are sold online. They come in all sizes. They are food grade SS, so they block out light. They come with a skirt which works great as a stand. The better bottle airlocks fit them. When you want to rack, you use sanke couplers to push the beer with CO2. You have to take the flow check valve out of one of the coupler and I use a spear/dip tube that I cut an inch off the shaft, so it's not on the bottom when I rack. I also serve in sanke's, so I jump from the fermenter to the serving keg. The couplers are bomb proof. I have no idea why this isn't talked about more.

I'm not set up for something like that and I want to keep it simple for now anyway. I would really like one of these, but its 1 gallon too small for my batch sizes. Start making 8 gal please SS Brewtech!
http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/fermenters/products/brewbucket

 

[jbaysurfer]

If that is in response to my contention that glass is easier to clean and sanitize, I beg to differ. Plastic is FAR easier to scratch than glass and it is a well accepted belief in the food industry that scratches in plastic are very difficult to clean and sanitize.

I can soak and shake my better bottles clean without any other cleaning techniques 90% of the time. I have also dropped them before and they didn't break. Many glass users will parrot this mantra about scratches and infections, when the reality most of them use a FAR more likely to be infected tool known as an autosiphon, or a plastic racking cane, or a bottling wand, or plastic transfer tubing, or get their yeasts from plastic vials.

Show me someone concerned about plastic scratches and infections and the vast majority of the time I'll show you some who ferments in glass trying to rationalize their choice.

 

[flugelizor]

Many glass users will parrot this mantra about scratches and infections, when the reality most of them use a FAR more likely to be infected tool known as an autosiphon, or a plastic racking cane, or a bottling wand, or plastic transfer tubing, or get their yeasts from plastic vials.

Show me someone concerned about plastic scratches and infections and the vast majority of the time I'll show you some who ferments in glass trying to rationalize their choice.

Well, no, I chill directly to glass, then ferment until there is alcohol.
Then use the plastic products you mentioned, when the alcohol level is high enough, infection danger is lower.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I can soak and shake my better bottles clean without any other cleaning techniques 90% of the time. I have also dropped them before and they didn't break. Many glass users will parrot this mantra about scratches and infections, when the reality most of them use a FAR more likely to be infected tool known as an autosiphon, or a plastic racking cane, or a bottling wand, or plastic transfer tubing, or get their yeasts from plastic vials.

Show me someone concerned about plastic scratches and infections and the vast majority of the time I'll show you some who ferments in glass trying to rationalize their choice.

Well, no, I chill directly to glass, then ferment until there is alcohol.
Then use the plastic products you mentioned, when the alcohol level is high enough, infection danger is lower.

I was speaking very generally. Me thinks thou doth protest too much.

 

[bmblinbrewer]

I like carboys. I've been using glass for 2 years with no problems up until last night. I've heard horror stories about glass but figured that was "other people's problems".

This is what my Labor Day Weekend Hefe did last night. WY3068 +32 hours. Fortunately, no one has been hurt. (though I still need to clean up the champer)

I'm likely going to move to a better bottle because I like the limited exposure to the atmosphere that a bottle gives you. Those glass shards are nasty looking.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Oh that sucks. Please tell me you didn't lose a temp controller along with all that beer? (blue thing in the first pick?)

 

[day_trippr]

[...]This is what my Labor Day Weekend Hefe did last night. WY3068 +32 hours. [...]

So the airlock plugged and the stopper was so tight it literally blew up the carboy??

Or did you drop it...

Cheers!

 

[podz]

What's the attraction to glass carboys then? Doing what works for you is of course the main thing here. I'm just curious why many homebrewers choose to go with the carboy...

The biggest thing is that homebrew shops really push them to newbies because they cost more than a plastic bucket. Oh, do you need a brush for that? How about a carrying handle? And you'll probably need a hauler? Maybe some stick on thermometer tape? OK, you're just about set now.

 

[passedpawn]

I'm a little curious about the thermowell or probe he has jambed in there. I don't think I've seen that with a universal bung before. Something new there.

 

[rhys333]

I like carboys. I've been using glass for 2 years with no problems up until last night. I've heard horror stories about glass but figured that was "other people's problems".

This is what my Labor Day Weekend Hefe did last night. WY3068 +32 hours. Fortunately, no one has been hurt. (though I still need to clean up the champer)

I'm likely going to move to a better bottle because I like the limited exposure to the atmosphere that a bottle gives you. Those glass shards are nasty looking.

Aweful man, but thanks for sharing that. Glad everyone's okay and hope the mess was fully contained in the chamber.

 

[user 144271]

I work in the food industry and glass is a BIG no no. but that is only because of the risk of it breaking not chemicals or such. As far as the plastic scratching I just don't buy it.
it is obviously easier to scratch and of course scratches are harder to clean. But the real world risk is very small. Ever see glass cutting board? or even a stainless steel one?
The fact of the matter is everyone uses plastic cutting boards and we clean them everyday.
We have areas where people use cutting boards for 8 hours day and we do a lot of environmental sampling and they are just not an issue.

 

[kombat]

The fact of the matter is everyone uses plastic cutting boards and we clean them everyday.

Bingo.

You "clean them everyday."

When you rack wort into a plastic bucket to begin fermenting, you're not cleaning that plastic bucket "every day." You're leaving it undisturbed for days/weeks, giving it the perfect environment for any contaminant to grow and fester.

 

[rhys333]

Half of the posts in the 'Post Your Infection' thread relate to carboys though. If plastics were prone to infection, I'd expect the thread to be dominated by bucket issues.

Plastic can scratch, but cleaning with a soft brush minimizes this. It's also very easy to ensure the interior is squeeky clean. Consider you can also scratch a carboy, particularly around the neck, if you're too ambitious with those metal handled brushes. They can be cleaned thorougly as well, but it requires more attention and you need a keen eye to spot those gunky microparticles.

All things considered, I think it comes down to good upfront sanitation ensuring your brew stays protected during lag phase. Yeast and then alcohol protect it from there right? Great comments btw everyone. It's great reading about all the different perspectives out there.

 

[jbaysurfer]

Bingo.

You "clean them everyday."

When you rack wort into a plastic bucket to begin fermenting, you're not cleaning that plastic bucket "every day." You're leaving it undisturbed for days/weeks, giving it the perfect environment for any contaminant to grow and fester.

So where's the evidence that people who ferment in plastic have a higher rate of infection? I don't have any other then anecdotal, but the most unsanitary brewers I know are mostly using glass. I don't need to blame the fermenter vessel though, unwanted infections come from poor sanitation, whether it's a carboy, a conical, a better bottle or a bucket.

 

[b-boy]

For me it is easier to transfer from a carboy into a keg under low CO2 pressure. This way, the keg is flushed with CO2 and I push the beer with CO2,very little, if any, O2 exposure.

What's your process for CO2 transfer? I've been trying to do this with mixed results. What kind of stopper do you use?