Arrheinous
Well-Known Member
Never used a thermowell before (will soon) but I'd assume you're supposed to use a carboy cap - one opening for the thermowell, one for an airlock?
Why bother with carboys and blow-off tubes?
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Never used a thermowell before (will soon) but I'd assume you're supposed to use a carboy cap - one opening for the thermowell, one for an airlock?
Put the racking cane in the thermowell hole (has to be a tight seal) and and an air inlet (of your choosing, just have to know how you're going to hook it to your CO2 source) in the other. Put the outlet of your racking cane to the barb on the keg's QD, unscrew your PRV so that it can bleed the gas as the keg fills...hit the fermenter with a very low pressure of C02 to start the siphon, and you're off to the races.
None of the vessels we typically use aside from conicals, are rated for pressure though, so even though I don't do this, if I did, I'd be very careful.
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Arrheinous
Well-Known Member
Try out a needle valve in-line after the regulator. That should let less gas through to the carboy so you can move the beer with the lowest pressure possible.
Yeah, that looks weird, I'd like to see a closeup of that section. I've never seen a bung jammed that deep into a carboy's neck either. And that carboy has a sizable wall thickness. Not the light bulb "quality" of the BMBs. The pressure must have built up with nowhere else to go. I'd rather find a bung on the floor one morning.
Good idea. I mostly was doing a CYA with that because you know, the internet and all..don't want someone blowing up their Carboy then pointing to my post! LOL..
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
bmblinbrewer
Member
jbaysurfer: The blue in the pic is a heat belt, it lived. The stc 1000 was fortunately on the outside of the freezer and wasn't touched.
The bung has two holes in it, one for the thermowell and one for the airlock. It was purchased at my lhbs and has worked fine for ~10 batches.
In this case I accidentally got the bung lodged too deep. I think if it was sitting at a normal level it may have just blown off the bung.
Short story long. My chiller only gets the wort down to 78F so I transfer to the carboy and put it in the chamber until it reaches ferm temp. In this case 67F. When I took the bung out to pitch the yeast I sprayed it with star san and well... the slippery sucker wouldn't stay down. I pushed a little harder and... it did stay down. Way down. Apparently too far down. I was annoyed and thought "that's gonna be a b!#$h to get out" but didn't think it would be an issue.
I think plan to avoid bungs going forward. I like the cap that AnOldUR displays above and will try that out on the next batch. I will probably go with a better bottle if for no other reason that to try it out.
The bung has two holes in it, one for the thermowell and one for the airlock. It was purchased at my lhbs and has worked fine for ~10 batches.
In this case I accidentally got the bung lodged too deep. I think if it was sitting at a normal level it may have just blown off the bung.
Short story long. My chiller only gets the wort down to 78F so I transfer to the carboy and put it in the chamber until it reaches ferm temp. In this case 67F. When I took the bung out to pitch the yeast I sprayed it with star san and well... the slippery sucker wouldn't stay down. I pushed a little harder and... it did stay down. Way down. Apparently too far down. I was annoyed and thought "that's gonna be a b!#$h to get out" but didn't think it would be an issue.
I think plan to avoid bungs going forward. I like the cap that AnOldUR displays above and will try that out on the next batch. I will probably go with a better bottle if for no other reason that to try it out.
bmblinbrewer
Member
The airlock plugged and the stopper was so tight it blew up.
I don't believe it.
Jeeze, that's rather sobering.
fwiw, I run 1" ID blow-offs until the throes of fermentation have subsided whereupon I switch to s-locks.
After seeing a carboy bomb I'll stick to that regimen...
Cheers!
Really? I mean it is going to fail somewhere. If the weakest point wasn't the stopper then it won't fail there. I suspect the carboy might have had a microfracture there already but that is just conjecture. Stranger things have happened.
No, the airlock would pretty much need to be filled with superglue for that to be the cause.
I'm more inclined to believe that the carboy was fractured by the trauma of forcing that bung so far down in addition to having a foreign object between it and the glass (whatever that was, some sort of sensor) and that the fracture traveled while it was in the chamber. Glass fractures travel easily based on temperature changes.
bja
Well-Known Member
You can't be serious. If the bung being forced in caused the fracture it would've broken at the opening. Not 6" below it.
Glass fractures aren't like tornadoes. They don't jump around and hit one place and skip another.
Stealthcruiser
Well-Known Member
StarSan + sticky wort= superglue.
bmblinbrewer
Member
I'm open to other theories. I promise that it was not dropped.
He gave you a pretty solid one above.
bmblinbrewer
Member
bmblinbrewer
Member
There was no foreign object wedged between the bung and the glass. That was a bung drilled with 2 holes, one for a thermowell and one for an airlock. Certainly, the bung could have added pressure to a pre-existing imperfection but I doubt it was the cause of it.
So back to the OP. I've got both. Mainly because i bought up a large lot from a guy getting out of the hobby for dirt cheap. Once I built my single tier, and started carrying full 6.5 gal carboys into the house, with slippery hands, I decided to switch to buckets. I've had bucket lids blow (scared the crap out of the dog), just as I've had air locks and bungs blow out of a carboy. I still use the carboys for aging/secondary. Yes, I secondary too (there's another can of worms). But I do it for other reasons, not because i've always done it.
That all said, I don't get the infection issue. I have been homebewing for 12+ yrs now, with more batches than I can remember at this point. The only time I've had an infection, I intentionally introduced said brett/lacto, etc. I'm still on my original auto siphon, and have only swapped out the tubing 3-4 times? Maybe I over sanitize, but I highly suspect other's sanitation techniques if they are using that as a crutch.
And I don't get the "i want to be able to see the fermentation" argument either. Maybe I just have better things to do with my time than to sit there and watch a fermentation. I take an OG when I put the wort in the fermentor and pitch. Wait a week or so (depending on when I get back to it), take another reading. Take one the next day and see if we're done. Though really, by now, I know when I'm where I'm supposed to be. Even when I was a doe eyed newb, I never sat there and watched the fermentation.
Bottom line, both have their merits. Really comes down to what you got when you started, and how you filled out your brewery. And now, justifying your selection choice. I mean, really, the best option in this entire thread is a couple pages back using the stainless sanke. Or a stainless conical. But that's not in the cards for most of us, so you go with what you got.
That all said, I don't get the infection issue. I have been homebewing for 12+ yrs now, with more batches than I can remember at this point. The only time I've had an infection, I intentionally introduced said brett/lacto, etc. I'm still on my original auto siphon, and have only swapped out the tubing 3-4 times? Maybe I over sanitize, but I highly suspect other's sanitation techniques if they are using that as a crutch.
And I don't get the "i want to be able to see the fermentation" argument either. Maybe I just have better things to do with my time than to sit there and watch a fermentation. I take an OG when I put the wort in the fermentor and pitch. Wait a week or so (depending on when I get back to it), take another reading. Take one the next day and see if we're done. Though really, by now, I know when I'm where I'm supposed to be. Even when I was a doe eyed newb, I never sat there and watched the fermentation.
Bottom line, both have their merits. Really comes down to what you got when you started, and how you filled out your brewery. And now, justifying your selection choice. I mean, really, the best option in this entire thread is a couple pages back using the stainless sanke. Or a stainless conical. But that's not in the cards for most of us, so you go with what you got.
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Don't claim to understand the science other than that gasses mix regardless of their weight or currents in the environment.
[SIZE=+1]Diffusion[/SIZE] - The rate at which two gases mix.
[SIZE=+2]Graham's Law of Diffusion[/SIZE]
- The rate at which gases diffuse is inversely proportional to the square root of their densities.
This is not the issue with plastic. The issue is that scratches provide a place for dirt, residue etc to remain after a cleaning that infects the next batch. Gentle and thorough cleaning and sanitizing make infections a near impossibility
It is.
And even Samuel Smith can't change gas laws...
Cheers!
And even Samuel Smith can't change gas laws...
Cheers!
OP
OP
True enough 
Don't get me wrong - showing an open active fermenter as a counterpoint to the discussion which had been focused on closed fermenters at the post-fermentation phase was a miss anyway. But if you have an open vessel of fermenting beer continually evolving CO2 of course there will be a CO2-rich environment under that foam. And of course the gas is also constantly dissipating - which goes back to those gas laws...
Cheers!
Don't get me wrong - showing an open active fermenter as a counterpoint to the discussion which had been focused on closed fermenters at the post-fermentation phase was a miss anyway. But if you have an open vessel of fermenting beer continually evolving CO2 of course there will be a CO2-rich environment under that foam. And of course the gas is also constantly dissipating - which goes back to those gas laws...
Cheers!
user 144271
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I bet a doughnut there isnt a shred of evidence that plastic buckets do have a higher infection rate.
As far as cleaning everyday yes we do. But we also do time based testing as a means of affirming our results. We do allow some pieces to sit for 1,2,and 3 weeks for testing. IMHO This will someday day go the way of YOU MUST SECONDARY. Don't forget it is not just materials. Everyone knows how more difficult it is to clean the inside of a carboy vs a bucket
As far as cleaning everyday yes we do. But we also do time based testing as a means of affirming our results. We do allow some pieces to sit for 1,2,and 3 weeks for testing. IMHO This will someday day go the way of YOU MUST SECONDARY. Don't forget it is not just materials. Everyone knows how more difficult it is to clean the inside of a carboy vs a bucket
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ftfy :cross:
flugelizor
Well-Known Member
Please weigh in bucket fermenters. Do you guys primary ferment in a bucket with spigot?
You think a spigot is easy to clean?
I think a spigot would make it easier to rack, and yeast harvest, but when I use one (for bottling) I always worry about the cleanliness of the spigot.
You think a spigot is easy to clean?
I think a spigot would make it easier to rack, and yeast harvest, but when I use one (for bottling) I always worry about the cleanliness of the spigot.
I prefer to use carboys for primary and aging. The couple of buckets friends/family used lost their ability to seal perfectly early on. While open and covered but not sealed primaries are fine, doing so for aging has bad idea written all over it. Also my line of work has constantly changing hours, and on occasion I end up bulk aging in primary because I can't even find the time of day to rack.
Due to circumstance I also use gelatin at room temperature to help clear most beer after fermentation. While it does work, it certainly isn't optimal or as fast as cold crashing. But I play the cards I'm dealt. Carboys allow me to see if things have clarified yet or still need some time.
Cleaning is a bit of a pain around the krausen line, but that's about it. Usually give it a vigorous rinsing, then a gallon of water and oxyclean. Flip it! Upside down if you have a way to stand it like so, on it's side in the bathtub and roll it 90 degrees every few hours, whatever needs to be. Reaching into a bucket with a cloth is fast and easy, they just don't work with my current needs.
In the future I'd like to get a couple of plastic big mouth bubblers for primary. They seem to be the best of both worlds. Clear, airtight, non-oxygen leaking, big enough to get an arm in for cleaning, droppable, probably less likely to explode with co2 racking compared to glass. But I'd like to invest in expanding my keezer capabilities first. External gas, 4 kegs inside without collar and tap towers, 6 kegs inside with collar and towers for front mounted taps, 6 and towers, oh the possibilities. As long as I'm done with opening the lid and fighting with a picnic faucet it'll make me happy.
My father (and my first couple batches) were a bottling bucket primary for a week, 2 weeks in clearing vessel (carboy), then bottled from the bucket. No infections for either of us. The spigot isn't right at the bottom, but I'm sure you could drill where you'd like it to be and/or use a pick up tube.
Cleaning and sanitizing the spigot took just as long as doing the rest of the bucket. Perhaps longer. While not a difficult task it was time consuming because I knew that it was an ideal infection spawning location.
Due to circumstance I also use gelatin at room temperature to help clear most beer after fermentation. While it does work, it certainly isn't optimal or as fast as cold crashing. But I play the cards I'm dealt. Carboys allow me to see if things have clarified yet or still need some time.
Cleaning is a bit of a pain around the krausen line, but that's about it. Usually give it a vigorous rinsing, then a gallon of water and oxyclean. Flip it! Upside down if you have a way to stand it like so, on it's side in the bathtub and roll it 90 degrees every few hours, whatever needs to be. Reaching into a bucket with a cloth is fast and easy, they just don't work with my current needs.
In the future I'd like to get a couple of plastic big mouth bubblers for primary. They seem to be the best of both worlds. Clear, airtight, non-oxygen leaking, big enough to get an arm in for cleaning, droppable, probably less likely to explode with co2 racking compared to glass. But I'd like to invest in expanding my keezer capabilities first. External gas, 4 kegs inside without collar and tap towers, 6 kegs inside with collar and towers for front mounted taps, 6 and towers, oh the possibilities. As long as I'm done with opening the lid and fighting with a picnic faucet it'll make me happy.
My father (and my first couple batches) were a bottling bucket primary for a week, 2 weeks in clearing vessel (carboy), then bottled from the bucket. No infections for either of us. The spigot isn't right at the bottom, but I'm sure you could drill where you'd like it to be and/or use a pick up tube.
Cleaning and sanitizing the spigot took just as long as doing the rest of the bucket. Perhaps longer. While not a difficult task it was time consuming because I knew that it was an ideal infection spawning location.
