Why are so many people letting beer sit so long??

[ANewrBrewr]

This is a great idea. I've never added fruit to a beer(exception some orange zest to a Belgian doesn't count I think)

If and when the day comes I'll borrow this technique I reckon. Thanks for sharing that, I've not read it elsewher but perhaps it's common knowledge. Not done much reading on fruit beers.

On your original question. I think the longer times are very often as a result of people being in no rush to move the beer off the yeast. Done that myself for various reasons with no ill effects that I could detect.

The other reason is that it's recommended by knowledgeable folks is that it is in the main great advice for less experienced brewers where off flavors may well be an issue. Time to age is no bad thing perhaps.

As we get more experienced and refine our process.
Big fat healthy yeast counts being pitched at correct temperatures and fermentation being carried out in more controlled settings, there is less of an argument to a long time spent in the fermentor. A pushback to many of the nonsense instructions people are given to follow. x days in primary, rack to secondary etc.

Then the thoughts become, once it's done it's done. package it up. This is where I'm at. Packaging my more recent brews including lagers in under 2 weeks. Primary to keg.

I usually brew beers in the 1.045 to 1.055 range and have no experience with a RIS or IIPA or IIIPA etc.

if and when i make a big beer or barley wine i will likely package in a similar time frame once things drop clear and let things age in an 02 poor environment. (sealed keg, carbonated beer)

BTW. I think you have shown a great deal of patience and overt manners in responding to some of the more obnoxious posts in the thread. Well done! The forum always needs more input from such individuals like yourself. Hats off.

I'm not sure how common the instant extract method is, just something a friend of mine and I came up with awhile back, but I'm sure many others have stumbled upon the success of this method as well.

As far as the obnoxious posts go; I feel some people are like a bad itch, the more you scratch it the worse it gets. All they need is a little soothing touch and they'll soon go away!

 

[Kee]

I normally do big beers so the quick turnaround is usually not applicable. When I do try to hurry things I've had mixed results with quick carb methods. The beer always seems better after at least a week in the keg, if not longer.

 

[mjcoss]

I guess I'm in the camp of giving the yeast time to do their job. I've just started a Russian Imperial Stout, and while I'm sure there are people out there that say you can turn an RIS around from grain to glass in 12 - 14 days, I don't think that it's true to the style. It was suppose to age, and many would claim that if you drank it early, you would regret it because the beer blends and refines over time and become fantastic if you just wait.

As I see it you move to a secondary, if and only if, you're going to do something to the beer - dry hop, additions, etc or you want to do some long term bulk conditioning. Otherwise let it sit in the primary, finish fermenting, and then give it a week or so to bulk condition. Then into bottles from the primary.

Unlike so many of the responses, I don't have kegs, so it's bottle conditioning. I like to give it at least a week in the bottle before I try it, 2 is better.

But as was mentioned in the original post, high ABV beers - belgain golden strong ale, wee heavy scottish ale, russian imperial stout might, just might benefit from a longer time in a fermenter. These are the kinds I like to brew and I truly believe that they benefit from bulk conditioning, and I have always been a bit concerned about letting it sit on the trub for months, and as such will move it to a secondary.

 

[dkevinb]

The only reason I would let my beer ferment for more than 2 weeks would be if I didn't have enough empties to bottle. But I generally brew 1.045-1.055 beers, very easy to ferment.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I guess I'm in the camp of giving the yeast time to do their job. I've just started a Russian Imperial Stout, and while I'm sure there are people out there that say you can turn an RIS around from grain to glass in 12 - 14 days, I don't think that it's true to the style. It was suppose to age, and many would claim that if you drank it early, you would regret it because the beer blends and refines over time and become fantastic if you just wait.

As I see it you move to a secondary, if and only if, you're going to do something to the beer - dry hop, additions, etc or you want to do some long term bulk conditioning. Otherwise let it sit in the primary, finish fermenting, and then give it a week or so to bulk condition. Then into bottles from the primary.

Unlike so many of the responses, I don't have kegs, so it's bottle conditioning. I like to give it at least a week in the bottle before I try it, 2 is better.

But as was mentioned in the original post, high ABV beers - belgain golden strong ale, wee heavy scottish ale, russian imperial stout might, just might benefit from a longer time in a fermenter. These are the kinds I like to brew and I truly believe that they benefit from bulk conditioning, and I have always been a bit concerned about letting it sit on the trub for months, and as such will move it to a secondary.

You mentioned kegging as opposed to bottling above and I think that plays a huge part in turnaround time. I've been kegging so long, since my 2nd batch really, that I tend to forget that not everyone kegs, with the reality being that more HB'ers probably bottle their beer rather than keg it. If I bottled, I'd likely give them a lot more time to finish, as I've had brews drop a few more gravity points in the keg over time and I'd be concerned about that happening if they were bottled. With a keg, that concern just isn't there.

Since I do keg, regardless of the style the drill is to wait for krausen to drop, give it 3 more days, then keg it, though it might be a week or longer after that before I actually get around to kegging it. I always check FG and they are always right in the zone, so I don't sweat it whether it's going to drop a little more. If FG was abnormally high, I'd give it some more time to see if it drops further, but that's a pretty rate occurrence. Big beers like the ones you mentioned would be no different as far as time in primary, but they most certainly would spend weeks or even months in the keg aging at basement temp before they are tapped due to the fact that they really do need to be aged a bit before they are ready to consume. Kegging at 2 weeks does not necessarily mean drinking in 2 weeks; it just depends on the beer and in some cases, what else is already on tap. Dry hopped and wheat beers are really the only ones that I try to time so that they come right out of primary, into the keg for a few days max, then to the tap. Pretty much all others will spend some time aging in the keg simply due to the supply pipeline and no available taps.

 

[ANewrBrewr]

You mentioned kegging as opposed to bottling above and I think that plays a huge part in turnaround time. I've been kegging so long, since my 2nd batch really, that I tend to forget that not everyone kegs, with the reality being that more HB'ers probably bottle their beer rather than keg it. If I bottled, I'd likely give them a lot more time to finish, as I've had brews drop a few more gravity points in the keg over time and I'd be concerned about that happening if they were bottled. With a keg, that concern just isn't there.

Since I do keg, regardless of the style the drill is to wait for krausen to drop, give it 3 more days, then keg it, though it might be a week or longer after that before I actually get around to kegging it. I always check FG and they are always right in the zone, so I don't sweat it whether it's going to drop a little more. If FG was abnormally high, I'd give it some more time to see if it drops further, but that's a pretty rate occurrence. Big beers like the ones you mentioned would be no different as far as time in primary, but they most certainly would spend weeks or even months in the keg aging at basement temp before they are tapped due to the fact that they really do need to be aged a bit before they are ready to consume. Kegging at 2 weeks does not necessarily mean drinking in 2 weeks; it just depends on the beer and in some cases, what else is already on tap. Dry hopped and wheat beers are really the only ones that I try to time so that they come right out of primary, into the keg for a few days max, then to the tap. Pretty much all others will spend some time aging in the keg simply due to the supply pipeline and no available taps.

You're right up the road from me! Gotta love the local pints at High Hops. Cheers!

 

[te-wa]

i take a lazy approach, currently dont have a hydrometer (dont use it much anyway) so i just let beer ride for 3-4 weeks primary, then keg. slow method carb for a week to 10 days, then drink. the fastest turnaround ive ever had was a red chair clone, 15 days grain to glass. it was dang near spot on, but i'd see no harm in letting it ride for another week. i have a belgian dubbel 2 weeks old, that imma rest until halloween. no rush!

 

[madscientist451]

I've always had the question of why so many homebrewers let their beer sit in primary or secondary for soooo long. Aside from sours, fruit beers and high gravity beers, isn't anything over 1 week in primary and 1 week in secondary bad for the beer? Most commercial brewers thrive on freshness and usually see turn around from brew to glass in around 2 weeks.

Well commercial brewers need to keep the fermenters busy for maximum profit, although some do condition their beer for a while.
I always have plenty of beer/wine/cider in my pipeline so I'm in no hurry.
Also, I have a lot of other interests, am always busy doing something and since I don't see any need to turn the beer around real fast, sometimes its sits longer than it should. I have noticed an improvement with some aging of my stouts and porters, but I do agree that hoppy beers are generally best consumed ASAP.

 

[brewguyver]

Coming into this late, but ...

1) Some beers age well
2) Some beers get horribly infected and you just don't want to deal with it (it'll get better... i swear)
3) Sometimes life gets in the way (which points back to brewing more of #1)
4) Some yeasts take forever to ferment/clear
5) "For science"
6) You did something stupid trying #5 and it'll take 12 months to age out
7) You're too lazy to use a hydrometer (ahem ^^^). I highly recommend NOT doing this if you bottle beer.

 

[didinho]

What possible scientific reason could explain this theory?

Why would beer clear faster without the presence of a yeast cake at the bottom?

I've carboys with spigot on the bottom and when I move beer, it exits from this spigot. With a big yeast cake, more yeast and trub move when you move beer. If I move to a secondary and let it rest few days, when I move it for the prming I have less trub on the bottom of the fermentor that reaches the bottles.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I may be in the minority but I ferment for 7 days, sometimes even 5, I keg only so I condition and carb for 7 then drink, it can be done with the right equipment and process, the issue is usually clarity and getting rid of unwanted flavors, we use gravity and time for that but you can also use the cold and it helps speed time and gravity up

 

[DurtyChemist]

I've always had the question of why so many homebrewers let their beer sit in primary or secondary for soooo long. Aside from sours, fruit beers and high gravity beers, isn't anything over 1 week in primary and 1 week in secondary bad for the beer? Most commercial brewers thrive on freshness and usually see turn around from brew to glass in around 2 weeks. So why do some homebrewers feel the need to let their beer sit in a closet for weeks and sometimes months? My only thoughts are they either just get lazy and can't find the time to transfer/keg or they brew bad beer that requires time to mellow out harsh flavors/aromas. I do session IPAs and wheat beers from grain to glass in around 12 days and these beers have both gone on to get gold medals. So I'm just wanting to hear why people think their beer should sit so long. Cheers!

Sometimes people make beers that get better with age such as anything Belgian, stouts, porters or even Amber ales. Sorry everyone doesn't make a 4% pale ale that needs to be consumed fresh.

Why are people using secondary? Hasn't it been beaten to death that it isn't any type of fermentation and you can dry hop in primary?

 

[ANewrBrewr]

Sometimes people make beers that get better with age such as anything Belgian, stouts, porters or even Amber ales. Sorry everyone doesn't make a 4% pale ale that needs to be consumed fresh.

Why are people using secondary? Hasn't it been beaten to death that it isn't any type of fermentation and you can dry hop in primary?

There are many styles beyond 4% pales that can be turned around in 2 weeks and are much better fresh! Why do you think 80% of craft beer has an expiration date on the bottle? And anything that falls out of that 20% would be styles that are best to age (as I initially mentioned), but for the most part long term aging is really only needed for sours or barrel beers. If your beer isn't good coming out of the fermenter then something went wrong and yes it can be fixed with time...Dry hopping in a primary can be an issue; you still have to wait for terminal gravity otherwise your hops will clog up your airlock and BOOM! Also if you use whole cones like myself then your hops will just be floating on top of the krausen as opposed to adding wort onto a pile of hops at the bottom of a new clean carboy also you run the risk of knocking down all that gunk that clings to the side of your primary and if that gets in your beer...it is super bitter and harsh. You're correct that no fermentation really happens in secondary (unless you add fruit) but the main point of secondary is to clear the beer faster that's why they are often referred to as "bright tanks" in commercial breweries.

 

[Gibberoni]

Tried to sift through all of the posts, but there are a lot!

I think I might be in a small crowd, but I usually ferment in the primary for about 2 weeks. I generally build a 14 day profile in BrewPi based on the yeast, and continue to use that profile for that yeast. I usually start my ferment at the lowest temperature the yeast can handle, hold it there for 3-5 days until most of the ferment is complete. I then slowly rise the temperature to a few degrees below the max the yeast can handle for about 8-10 days. I then have the system do a cold crash to 40* and hold for 2 days.

I have found this generally produces GREAT beer, using the yeast to it max potential and getting all of those great esters from the yeast. Of course, some beer styles need more specific fermentation temps for certain esters, but this is what I generally do.

 

[Sailingeric]

I am a two weeker on my beer in the bucket. Not because it is some magical number but because it works out well for my schedule since I have to work during the week and don't want make beer brewing a chore. Bottle on Saturday, brew on Sunday and let it sit for two weeks, wash, rinse, repeat. :rockin:

 

[LLBeanJ]

You're right up the road from me! Gotta love the local pints at High Hops. Cheers!

FoCo FTW!

Yeah, High Hops has some pretty nice brews. Myself, I'm a big fan of Mayor of Old Town. Gotta love that beer selection and good food, too.

 

[ANewrBrewr]

FoCo FTW!

Yeah, High Hops has some pretty nice brews. Myself, I'm a big fan of Mayor of Old Town. Gotta love that beer selection and good food, too.

Yup Mayor and Tap and Handle are good spots. Speaking of which the mayor is tapping a keg of Pliny in approximately one hour

 

[DurtyChemist]

There are many styles beyond 4% pales that can be turned around in 2 weeks and are much better fresh! Why do you think 80% of craft beer has an expiration date on the bottle? And anything that falls out of that 20% would be styles that are best to age (as I initially mentioned), but for the most part long term aging is really only needed for sours or barrel beers. If your beer isn't good coming out of the fermenter then something went wrong and yes it can be fixed with time...Dry hopping in a primary can be an issue; you still have to wait for terminal gravity otherwise your hops will clog up your airlock and BOOM! Also if you use whole cones like myself then your hops will just be floating on top of the krausen as opposed to adding wort onto a pile of hops at the bottom of a new clean carboy also you run the risk of knocking down all that gunk that clings to the side of your primary and if that gets in your beer...it is super bitter and harsh. You're correct that no fermentation really happens in secondary (unless you add fruit) but the main point of secondary is to clear the beer faster that's why they are often referred to as "bright tanks" in commercial breweries.

The first post says that you brew session pale ales. Those are easy to turn around. A Belgian dubbel or golden strong will taste much better after a year or even three months of aging.

Budweiser has a best by date on it too. I think they even had a born on date for a while so you knew you were getting the freshest stuff just like Russian River. What's your point? Putting a date on a brew sells it more because people believe no beer is good after two weeks. Not the point of this thread. I was simply saying if you're brewing mostly 4% pale ales it's no surprise you can turn them around very soon.

 

[balrog]

If the beer is done, and clear, it's not going to get any doner.

Yup. But doneness (D) never seems to equal AvailableTimeForBottling (At), based (in my case) on the first order effects of children (C) and MassiveGodAwfulHoneyDoListRemaining (&*$!)

Don't let anybody tell you what YOUR preference is!

Amen.

I think I don't care what others think about how long my beer sits.

There's a good joke in there somewhere about sedentary saisons or soporific stouts but I've not had enough coffee yet today.

Haha, this thread has gotten the exact amount of attention as I expected when I first saw this yesterday. Hopefully it wont get to "Whats up with commerical IPAs" levels

Truth. Or sours.

 

[Hello]

I may be in the minority but I ferment for 7 days, sometimes even 5, I keg only so I condition and carb for 7 then drink, it can be done with the right equipment and process, the issue is usually clarity and getting rid of unwanted flavors, we use gravity and time for that but you can also use the cold and it helps speed time and gravity up

Your process, no matter how right it may be, will never override a yeast that needs more than 5-7 days to ferment. For example, WY1272, it takes longer than 5 - 7 days to finish. Unless you're using a yeast that floccuates fast, that 5-7 days can be blown.

 

[ANewrBrewr]

The first post says that you brew session pale ales. Those are easy to turn around. A Belgian dubbel or golden strong will taste much better after a year or even three months of aging.

Budweiser has a best by date on it too. I think they even had a born on date for a while so you knew you were getting the freshest stuff just like Russian River. What's your point? Putting a date on a brew sells it more because people believe no beer is good after two weeks. Not the point of this thread. I was simply saying if you're brewing mostly 4% pale ales it's no surprise you can turn them around very soon.

I think beer freshness is very important and not just a marketing ploy. In fact I just sat in on a tasting session at a commercial brewery and we were determining which beers were fit for being sent off to GABF for judging. We sampled various different batches of the same beer to determine which was best. It was a unanimous decision that the beers that ranked highest and were ultimately shipped off were the beers that were brewed most recently, freshness being the main reason. We sampled browns and robust porters. And when beers are expired and get shipped back to the brewery the brewery tosses them out, I don't think they would be wasting all that beer if "freshness" was a marketing scheme. And again I'm not talking about high abv beers, or bottled conditioned belgian beers these beers for sure need time to mellow and morph, I'm talking about the run of the mill majority of what people drink. I guess the beauty of beer is it is purely in the eye of the beholder, some folks like a fresh IPA some folks like those hops to age into a more complex beer. Some folks like a purity law pils, some folks like bud light. I guess there are no wrong answers. My whole point of this thread was to see if I was really missing out on quality of my beer by going from grain to glass so quickly and if so what off flavors (green flavors I guess) should I be looking for.

 

[wardens355]

My whole point of this thread was to see if I was really missing out on quality of my beer by going from grain to glass so quickly and nobody has proved to me that that is the case.

Was your point, but your thread title and first post questioned the merits of anyone letting their beers sit in carboy for more than a couple weeks. Coulda been a little more straight forward and just asked if anyone had done any actual comparisons between very similar beers packaged right after fermentation goes dormant, vs. letting the carboy rest for 2-3 weeks after.

 

[Rolsom]

I like to leave my beer alone and not poke or prod every day to find the moment that I hit FG to bottle.
I enjoy brewing and brew and bottle nearly every week because I enjoy nearly all the aspects of brewing. I enjoy the steep, boil, additions, and the smells that I get after every step. I enjoy listening to the airlock and watching, fermentation, and the anticipation of the final product.
I don't have a great love of bottling, but prefer bottle beer over kegged.

I have 10 cases of beer piled up, and my only brewing bottle neck is coming up with bottles. If my consumption ever out paces my production I'll either try to blast through a batch or go to rehab.

My feelings are that I enjoy what I'm doing and there is less problem with letting the beer sit longer to do what it has to do than rush the process and bottle unfinished beer. And if I do find myself trying to beat a personal best from boil to bottle, brewing would not be fun anymore and I would probably sell all my gear and take up oil painting.

 

[Beernik]

I've recently reached the same conclusion as the OP. I used to believe that my beers were best around the 8 week mark. Now I believe most ales should be ready in 4 weeks or less. The more improvements I have made to my brewing and fermenting processes and the more I have simplified my recipes, the less time my beers take to be ready.

My latest beer, which was 9.5 gallons of 5.4% wheat stout, went: 4 days fermenting, 4 days diacetyl rest, 6 days cold crash, and 7 days bottle carb. The 12oz bottles went grain to glass in 21 days. I'm giving it another two weeks carb before move my it all to the beer fridge because I'm sure the 1L bottles weren't carbed in one week plus I've been on vacation and I'm not going to be able to label for another two nights anyway.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Your process, no matter how right it may be, will never override a yeast that needs more than 5-7 days to ferment. For example, WY1272, it takes longer than 5 - 7 days to finish. Unless you're using a yeast that flocculates fast, that 5-7 days can be blown.

correct and yes I do use the most flocculating yeast I can find, but with that said I wouldn't stop early just because of time, it finishes when the target gravity is hit, most of my beers are Pale Ales to IIPA so this fermentation schedule works perfect

 

[1977Brewer]

Did I advocate a short turn around because I'm a crappy planning heavy drinker? That's why i turn everything around so fast. 2 weeks in the fermenter, a week in the bottle, drink it.

 

[OzzyBrew]

Three week fermenter guy here, or as others would lead you to believe, I'm lazy!

Actually I just try and brew every third weekend, so it works out well to brew and bottle on the same day. Multi-tasking!