sareinhart
Well-Known Member
Why do all the videos I see for making yeast starters have erlenmeyer flasks? Is there anything wrong with using a mason jar?
Why all the erlenmeyer flasks?
- Thread starter sareinhart
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
imasickboy
Drinkasaurus extraordinarius
Perfectly flat bottoms.
Mason jars have a domed bottom. On most stirplates the stirbar would get thrown to the side. Many also boil in the flask, that would not be advisable with a mason jar.
Domed bottom and tiny size makes mason jars suck. I used a gallon jug for a while, but the bottom is also domed.
Currently use a 4L beaker and it is awesome. It has a flat bottom, is also made from borosilicate and was cheaper than 4L flasks at the time I bought it. Also, the larger opening may or may not help facilitate gas exchange.
Currently use a 4L beaker and it is awesome. It has a flat bottom, is also made from borosilicate and was cheaper than 4L flasks at the time I bought it. Also, the larger opening may or may not help facilitate gas exchange.
We all watch too many mad scientist movies, and want to pretend we're cool.
Borosilicate is a genuine reason, but you can make a starter in any flat bottomed vessel. I make my lager starters in a 1G wine jug- domed bottom, no problems with that.
Of course, I bought an overpriced 5l flask, it's super cool
Borosilicate is a genuine reason, but you can make a starter in any flat bottomed vessel. I make my lager starters in a 1G wine jug- domed bottom, no problems with that.
Of course, I bought an overpriced 5l flask, it's super cool
iijakii
Well-Known Member
Pro tip in regards to Borosilicate and boiling capabilities -- it does not like electric stove coils 
It's got a flat bottom, and it's 5 liters, I boil in a stainless pot and transfer to it, so I don't even use any of the other cool features.
sareinhart
Well-Known Member
Thanks everybody. Looks like I should shell out a little of my moldy money and go for the flask.
Pro tip in regards to Borosilicate and boiling capabilities -- it does not like electric stove coils
Honestly I love my Erlenmeyer flask, but I've been too scared to boil directly in it and then place it in an ice bath. I think I'd cry if it shattered. So is their any chance that this flask is just plane plate glass? I think my wife is looking at Pyrex laboratory flasks for me for X-mas.
I put my 1L flask in the microwave for a short time to heat spring water to about 90F for rehydrating dry yeast. Works fine with no damage that way. But microwave went south a couple weeks ago, stove is on it's last legs, & it's electric. New induction/convection stove with 5th turbo burner won't be here till Wednesday.Harder to heat water just right on an electric stove to accurate temps, much less with a flask.
philipCT
Brewniversity student
- Joined
- May 10, 2013
- Messages
- 771
- Reaction score
- 171
Also word to the wise: do not direct heat an Erlenmeyer flask. You are definitely creating stresses in the flask that will weaken it, and eventually it will fail. Learned this the hard way after direct heating mine for many starters. I was moving it to my workable after cleaning and just tapped it ever so lightly on a small steel kettle. Popped open a hole in the corner about a quarters diameter. Fortunately it wasn't full of boiling hot wort.
Only then did I do a bunch of reading on this forum about that. Now I boil and cool in a small kettle and transfer to the flask for spinning.
Only then did I do a bunch of reading on this forum about that. Now I boil and cool in a small kettle and transfer to the flask for spinning.
It is possible you flask can be just plain glass. Also an important titbit of info: Pyrex made in the USA is not borosilicate glass. European Pyrex is borosilicate glass.
IMO, a good borosilicate glass flask on a gas stove is the simplest most sanitary way to make a starter. Heat directly and cool immediately.
OP: If your going to get one make sure it's borosilicate and don't get one any smaler than 2L. 5L flask is great for bigger starters for hybrids, lagers or 10+ gallon batches of an ale.
Find out more about flasks and starters here
Is it ok to use a ceramic top electric stove being that I haven't achieved my dream of a propane stove yet.
Rhumbline
Well-Known Member
I would defer to the opinion of those folks who use a ceramic top stove. No experience with using a flask on one I'm afraid.
For NG stoves borosilicate is working well within its design tolerances. No problems.
These are designed for direct heating and rapid cooling. But just to reiterate. Pyrex made in the USA is not borosilicate and if you plan on making starters sized with a view to an appropriate pitch-rate give 1L flasks a pass.
I got one when I started. It is a largely worthless piece of kit for me.
I'd could it for building up bottle dregs but haven't seen the need to do that yet.
My flasks. 5L is the Goldilocks favored one of the bunch
I have used my flask on my glass top stove. It is not directly on the coils which makes hot and cool areas stressing the flask. The coil looks like it is about 3/4 inch below the glass top. This will distribute the heat.
I quit boiling in the flask because it is a pain to add the dme, it is also very easy to boil over. I now boil and cool in a pot then pour into the flask for use on the stirplate.
I quit boiling in the flask because it is a pain to add the dme, it is also very easy to boil over. I now boil and cool in a pot then pour into the flask for use on the stirplate.
It is a pain to try to add and mix the DME into the boiling water in the flask. What I do now is mix the dme and water together in a bowl, with a whip, and pour into the flask using a funnel. Then I put the flask on the stove (a gas stove) and heat to boiling. Chill in the sink, pitch yeast, and put on a stir plate.
slym2none
"Lazy extract brewer."
+1 about American Pyrex not being borosilicate. I accidentally splashed some water while making gravy in a pan on the stove which was also housing a vegetable casserole, it splashed up onto the top of the Pyrex top and shattered it, leaving me with a casserole I'd only serve to my worst enemies.
+1 about American Pyrex not being borosilicate. I accidentally splashed some water while making gravy in a pan on the stove which was also housing a vegetable casserole, it splashed up onto the top of the Pyrex top and shattered it, leaving me with a casserole I'd only serve to my worst enemies.
+2 I've lost a cauliflower cheese dish the same way. Took the glassware out of the oven, placed on a counter with some water on it and POW!
Cracked in half, like a tiny gunshot going off. Didn't risk eating the food, fearing small glass shards.
No problem, been doing it with the same 4L flask since 2009.
I just put the DME in first, then blast water in there from the faucet, shake a bit, throw in the stir bar, cover loosely with foil, and put on stove. I use a funnel to get the DME in. The important thing is to add DME while the flask is completely dry.
beergolf
Well-Known Member
That is how I do it. The key is to have the flask DRY. I use a piece of paper to meke a funnel and get the DME in and then add the water. Work like a charm.
Lab glassware (flasks) that is labeled Pyrex is borosilicate glass, regardless of who made it or when.
Kitchen cookware labeled Pyrex (i.e., measuring cups and caseroles) might not be borosilicate. I read that all uppercase "PYREX" is borosilicate, but lower case "Pyrex" or "pyrex" is probably soda-lime glass.
I do have a 2L cheap flask that isn't marked at all except with the gradations. That one I don't trust. My 4L is marked PYREX England.
MannyEdwards
Well-Known Member
I'm guessing you were heating with an electric element. Normally it's fine to heat with a low pressure gas flame, like a typical kitchen range, because it heats more evenly.
hunter_le five
Sheriff Underscore
Pro tip in regards to Borosilicate and boiling capabilities -- it does not like electric stove coils
This. I learned that the hard way. :cross:
WI_Wino
Well-Known Member
A tip I learned the hard way, don't drop your stir plate magnet in right after you turn off the heat. A geyser of hot wort erupts making a total disaster of the stove.
I find it much easier to boil the starter wort in a stainless pot on the ceramic top kitchen stove or induction plate. After a few minutes boiling I put the lid on and let simmer for another few minutes. Chill in a tub with cold water, refreshing once or twice. Then pour into sanitized flasks.
Note: I tend to make more than one starter at a time, thus requiring a gallon or more of starter wort. A large pot makes that simpler. I use one drop of Fermcap-S per gallon.
Maybe not quite as sanitary as boiling in the flask itself, but honestly, the surface temperature of that ceramic top is scary. I never had an unintended infection in my starters (or beer) from this method.
Note: I tend to make more than one starter at a time, thus requiring a gallon or more of starter wort. A large pot makes that simpler. I use one drop of Fermcap-S per gallon.
Maybe not quite as sanitary as boiling in the flask itself, but honestly, the surface temperature of that ceramic top is scary. I never had an unintended infection in my starters (or beer) from this method.
FreddyMar3
Well-Known Member
I just went on to check Morebeer to make sure my 5L flask is borosilicate and i stumbled across this. Anyone use this method?
------------------
"Recommended Process for Use of Flask: Double Boiler Method
It is important for your safety to heat water in the flask with a heat source that distributes heat evenly. Our manufacturer has confirmed that direct heat to the glass can break down its integrity and break if the heat source doesn't distribute evenly.
Morebeer! recommends using the "double boiler method." This process involves using a boiling water bath on the outside of the flask to heat up the water inside the flask. All you need is a kettle 3 gallons or larger. This process is much safer and efficient. If the flask should break or boil over, your kettle will be there to collect the contents, thus keeping your stove clean and keeping you away from potential harm."
------------------
"Recommended Process for Use of Flask: Double Boiler Method
It is important for your safety to heat water in the flask with a heat source that distributes heat evenly. Our manufacturer has confirmed that direct heat to the glass can break down its integrity and break if the heat source doesn't distribute evenly.
Morebeer! recommends using the "double boiler method." This process involves using a boiling water bath on the outside of the flask to heat up the water inside the flask. All you need is a kettle 3 gallons or larger. This process is much safer and efficient. If the flask should break or boil over, your kettle will be there to collect the contents, thus keeping your stove clean and keeping you away from potential harm."
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2013
- Messages
- 7,656
- Reaction score
- 14,550
I low tech the whole process. Boil in open saucepan, put on lid and stick in fridge, pour into a growler I've chosen for the flattest bottom, set on PC fan homemade stirplate. One man's method.
Using double boilers would drive us nuts, way too slow. I wish they were as diligent with their warnings by pointing out the risks of handling (glass) carboys.
Maybe OK when making custard or tempering chocolate.
Just for giggles, would it be OK to use a propane torch to heat up a flask? Thinking we did essentially the same in science class with a Bunsen burner, although that generally had a piece of something similar to hardware cloth between the flask and the flame, but still... pretty much a clear shot for the flame.
Morebeer's lawyers have been editing the website by the looks of that disclaimer. Can't imagine anyone using a double boiler method for making a starter. Use a pot anyday over that.
A pot works just perfectly if making it in the flask is not safe given your stove and/or question mark over your flask's material.
Made a starter in my 5L flask yesterday evening. 5 mins prep, popped it on the stove and ate dinner.
No watching over it is needed if you use FermcapS. Everything (not the yeast of course) goes in at the start. Water DME, stir bar, pinch of nutrient, 1 drop FermcapS.
kombat
Well-Known Member
I'm surprised no one has mentioned using canned wort yet. It eliminates a ton of the risks and challenges of boiling in your flask.
Why not just can starter wort? Then when you need to make a starter, just swirl some StarSan in your flask and dump in the wort. No stressing your flask, no risk of boil-overs, no waiting for things to heat up and cool down.
- Difficulty of funneling DME into a flask containing hot water (sticks to the mouth, clumps, etc.)
- Risk of volcano when achieving boil, when adding stir bar, adding yeast nutrient, etc.
- Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while heating
- Risk of cracking/breaking the flask while shock-cooling
- Time spent waiting for wort to boil, then waiting for it to cool
Why not just can starter wort? Then when you need to make a starter, just swirl some StarSan in your flask and dump in the wort. No stressing your flask, no risk of boil-overs, no waiting for things to heat up and cool down.
