The breaking down of collagen into gelatin (i.e. tenderness) doesn't happen at a specific temp. It's a combination of temp and time. It still happens at lower temps, but takes MUCH longer.
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Interesting statement. If you go to 10 different BBQ pages on the collagen topic, they'll all tell you that collagen doesn't break down until 160ºF. But if you research a little further on collagen science pages, they agree with what you are saying, that collagen can break down at lower temps, just takes much longer.
I wrap with butcher paper. I figured that if I'm smoking something it would be a complete waste of wood to wrap with foil.
Me too.
A lot of BBQ folks out there don't know what's going on (science); they only know what works (method). And since nobody pulls those tough BBQ meats off the smoker at those temps, they never really NEED to know what happens at the lower temps. BTW that's not a criticism--there's a world full of BBQ cooks who make AMAZING Q without knowing those things.
I can say I've got empirical evidence that you can get tender results well below 160*. In fact, my wife's favorite way for me to do ribs is 149* for 24 hours sous vide, and only put on the grill to sauce them. Tri tip at 130* for 24 hours then seared on a grill will be INCREDIBLY tender. I actually once did beef short rib at about 135* for 48 hours (don't recall as it was a decade ago) and seared in cast iron and it was more tender than filet mignon while cooked medium rare.
Note: I don't recommend all those things. Ribs are the only ones I still do that way. I prefer tri tip traditionally cooked even if it has a little more chew, but it's still quite good that way. On the other hand, those short ribs, while insanely tender, maybe still weren't the most appetizing texture lol.
I view it like brewing. Learn as much science and as many techniques as you can. But then the craft is knowing when to apply certain techniques, and when NOT to apply others, in order to get the desired final product.
I do my beef plate ribs that way, amazing flavor and texture. We also do carnitas in a sous vide bath for 72 hours @165, they come out amazingly tender. We then sear them with the searzall to add some fire roasted flavor and a crispy texture. The bag juices are reduced and poured over the meat before serving. Juniper berries are the secret ingredient to make them irresistible. I've also done pork shoulder this way with breakfast sausage seasoning blend, or with Italian sausage seasonings to use on pizza. Sous vide is a rabbit hole but totally worth it, and pork shoulder will become your favorite protein.
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short ribs in a pressure cooker with cola is the bomb. Sorta the opposite of sous vide.
BTW, I also used to sous vide my ribs, and they were much meatier that way. HOWEVER, i sorta like the process of hanging around the smoker all day, so I don't do that anymore.
I may not be the only one but i prefer ribs not falling off the bone. The melted collagen in and meat texture in ribs is not my favorite for ribs. there is enough fat in the meat alone for tenderness. I will smoke em wrap for a little bit then flame sear them and baste with the juices from the wrap. Oh and barbecue sauce is a no for me also, gets in the way of pork flavor.
otherwise hopefully within the next couple weeks will be doing canadian bacon and some ham roasts. with cottage bacon in the near future with pork shoulder.
otherwise hopefully within the next couple weeks will be doing canadian bacon and some ham roasts. with cottage bacon in the near future with pork shoulder.
No, I prefer to have a little chew as well. But everyone else out there (i.e. my wife and kids) just LOVE when they're falling off the bone, so sometimes you have to play to your audience
Ribs just aren't my favorite. There are very few times where I'm ok with just biting into a mouthful of fat. The seasoning and the smoke mostly just go into the fat, so the meat itself is difficult to season. The silver skin can be a pain to remove. Beef spare ribs are just difficult for me.
I'll still make and eat them, though. Sometimes they just sound like a terrific idea, and I've had some really good ones, but that's just not how it usually works out.
I'll still make and eat them, though. Sometimes they just sound like a terrific idea, and I've had some really good ones, but that's just not how it usually works out.
Any of you guys ever make pastrami ribs?
Pretty awesome. I just used the exact same procedure I use to make pastrami. Cure meat (pork babybacks) in a solution of salts (incl pink salt) and mulling spices, soak in water for a day or two to remove some of the salt, rub with pepper and coriander, smoke as usual. Pretty incredible and unexpected, for sure. It's pastrami off the bone. Try it
Pretty awesome. I just used the exact same procedure I use to make pastrami. Cure meat (pork babybacks) in a solution of salts (incl pink salt) and mulling spices, soak in water for a day or two to remove some of the salt, rub with pepper and coriander, smoke as usual. Pretty incredible and unexpected, for sure. It's pastrami off the bone. Try it
It sounds amazing!Any of you guys ever make pastrami ribs?
Pretty awesome. I just used the exact same procedure I use to make pastrami. Cure meat (pork babybacks) in a solution of salts (incl pink salt) and mulling spices, soak in water for a day or two to remove some of the salt, rub with pepper and coriander, smoke as usual. Pretty incredible and unexpected, for sure. It's pastrami off the bone. Try it
View attachment 843971
I will be trying this soon.
Note that when curing the ribs, you only need 2 or 3 days in the cure. When i do a brisket flat for pastrami, it's much longer.
Don't forget to remove the membrane. I find that membrane tears right off if the ribs are partially frozen. I remove the ribs from freezer, thaw on countertop for an hour, then the soft membrane tears right off the frozen meat.
You are right, I have noticed that the membrane typically does come off easier from frozen ribs.
I get alot of my ribs from Costco and found the membrane removed most of the time. At least that was the case multiple times last summer. There were a few times last year that I spent 5-10 minutes trying to get under the membrane to pull it off only to figure out it was gone already.
There is also a chance that I had beverage or 2 at that point and my not have been the most astute observer at the time as well.
I get alot of my ribs from Costco and found the membrane removed most of the time. At least that was the case multiple times last summer. There were a few times last year that I spent 5-10 minutes trying to get under the membrane to pull it off only to figure out it was gone already.
There is also a chance that I had beverage or 2 at that point and my not have been the most astute observer at the time as well.
Yeah, that sounds delicious. Gonna have to do it.Any of you guys ever make pastrami ribs?
Pretty awesome. I just used the exact same procedure I use to make pastrami. Cure meat (pork babybacks) in a solution of salts (incl pink salt) and mulling spices, soak in water for a day or two to remove some of the salt, rub with pepper and coriander, smoke as usual. Pretty incredible and unexpected, for sure. It's pastrami off the bone. Try it
No, you're right. Costco baby back ribs have the membrane removed already.
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
Anything's better if you 'strami it. I've got to try ribs!
Any of you guys ever make pastrami ribs?
Pretty awesome. I just used the exact same procedure I use to make pastrami. Cure meat (pork babybacks) in a solution of salts (incl pink salt) and mulling spices, soak in water for a day or two to remove some of the salt, rub with pepper and coriander, smoke as usual. Pretty incredible and unexpected, for sure. It's pastrami off the bone. Try it
View attachment 843971
Tried doing some cured ribs. Must have done something wrong because they were so salty tasting as to be inedible, and I like salt. Ended up tossing both racks.
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
Oh, no! Desalinating meat is pretty easy. Just a soak in water for some hours pulls the salt right out of it. I had to do this on a corned beef when I accidentally doubled-up the pink and kosher salt. Complete salt bomb.
I followed a recipe and that's normally pretty straight forward.
I think this is the one I tried. Maybe there's a problem in the recipe I didn't catch. In hindsight it seems like a lot of salt in there (which makes sense in the result).
https://barbecuebible.com/recipe/honey-ham-ribs/
It's going now! Put on around 1130. Sitting at 130F at the bone.
I try to keep the after brine rinse pretty quick. No more than 20minutes. I patiently waited for hours to get all that salt in there, I don't want to pull it all out, just the excess.
FloppyKnockers
Well-Known Member
Whooooooaaaaa, Nelly! That's a lot of salt! I can see why you dumped it.
- ¾ cup coarse salt (sea or kosher)
- 1½ teaspoons pink curing salt (Prague Powder No. 1 or Insta Cure No. 1)
Otherwise, this recipe looks really good and I might need try try it (sans the salt lick).
Need to soak in water, dump, soak again. That is normal process for pastrami. Corned beef doesn't need that because it's typically getting cooked in water anyway.
If you ever make pastrami by curing a flat, definately soak twice, then rub and smoke.
Not going to lie. It came out horrible. Finished in the crock pot and all was well.
Preparing for some cooking on the smoker tomorrow, the big 1.5kg piece of chuck roll will become a poor mans brisket. A second 1kg piece will also be smoked initially but instead of wrapped tossed in a iron pot with some other stuff and become chili.
All done on the smoker since itf you remove the smoke wood it's basically a charcoal oven...
Have been drinking a Highland Jock by Boughton Brewery and a Maximus by Lagunitas while prepping.
All done on the smoker since itf you remove the smoke wood it's basically a charcoal oven...
Have been drinking a Highland Jock by Boughton Brewery and a Maximus by Lagunitas while prepping.
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I'm sure it'll be delicious!
Can you give a little more context on the pictures? Is that something where you're brining the meat in the smaller pot or perhaps putting together some sort of seasoning/rub/paste that was put on the meat on the other side?
It might be the Highland Jock and the Maximus, but I'm trying to decipher the process here lol ;-)
The first pic is chipotle peppers being boiled in stout, seeds and seedhousing removed then mixed in to a paste with some cumin, sugar etc.
The big piece of meat is not brined but I thawed the meat in the packaging it was bought in so just "drying" it a little by letting excess fluid drip off it.
It will be smeared in mustard, rub applied and then smoked a few hours, wrap and rest a little then back on the warm smoker until inner temp 85-90c.
The smaller piece no rub, but smoked with the bigger one, rest, cut up in to a few smaller pieces, thrown in a iron pot with a bottle of beer(the beer in the bottle, not the whole thing), sauteed large cut onion, garlic and the chili paste.
Let sit on the still warm smoker until the meat start falling apart.
Then I have smoked chuck roast and chili!
Will likely use birch and plum wood smoke chunks.
The big piece of meat is not brined but I thawed the meat in the packaging it was bought in so just "drying" it a little by letting excess fluid drip off it.
It will be smeared in mustard, rub applied and then smoked a few hours, wrap and rest a little then back on the warm smoker until inner temp 85-90c.
The smaller piece no rub, but smoked with the bigger one, rest, cut up in to a few smaller pieces, thrown in a iron pot with a bottle of beer(the beer in the bottle, not the whole thing), sauteed large cut onion, garlic and the chili paste.
Let sit on the still warm smoker until the meat start falling apart.
Then I have smoked chuck roast and chili!
Will likely use birch and plum wood smoke chunks.
Oldskewl
Well-Known Member
I always pick up a second corned beef at St. Patricks day to make pastrami. I got tired of moving it around fridge so I decided to smoke it this week end. I hated to run the smoker for just that tiny piece of corned beef, so I decided to smoke some beef short ribs I had in the freezer from the 1/4 cow we bought in December. This is the second time I have ever made Beef Ribs. The wife and kids weren't a fan of them the first time. Too Fatty! All in all everything went well. I smoked everything at 240F because I was afraid the ribs wouldn't be done in time for dinner. Everything went on a little before 8:00am and was finished by 1:00pm. Pastrami turned out tender. I used the Katz copycat recipe and smoked to 163F and then wrapped in foil to 203F. I vaccuum sealed it for future Reuben sandwiches. For the Short Ribs I used Meat Church Holy Cow rub and I smoked it to 163F and then put it in a aluminum pan with some beef stock and worcestershire and covered in foil to 205F. Ribs were flavorful and tender. Really nice cuts with very minimal fat. I would probably go a little lower on the temp next time. Live and learn. I forgot to take pics of the short ribs finished product. I have one left for lunch tomorrow. I'll try to remember to grab a pic.
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