Whole Hops or Pellet?

[HopSong]

If I had the option of going with whole hops vs pellet.. why would I choose one over the other?

Does one bring more to the plate than what I normally have available (pellets)?

Thanks, Bill

 

[Tall_Yotie]

In my opinion, and from what I have gathered from others, there really is not much difference. You need slightly more (10%, negligible in my opinion) of whole dried hops over pellets in regards to weight. Utilization is not affected.

Whole hops I prefer for dry hopping, adding less sludge to the brew. As for general "during the boil" I use pellets, as I toss it in without hops bags and just let it settle out while chilling. Whole leaf hops tend to suck in a lot of wort, and I am not a fan of squeezing them out after brewing.

 

[bigbeergeek]

Pellets. There is no comparison for ease of use, stability, etc. Many threads on the subject. Read 'em and the trend quickly emerges: if you grow (whole) hops, find a way to use them. Otherwise, pellets are superior.

 

[SumpinSumpin]

I agree. whole hops for dry hopping and pellets during the boil, that is just my preference...but then again I never used pellets to dry hop.

 

[bigbeergeek]

I agree. whole hops for dry hopping and pellets during the boil, that is just my preference...but then again I never used pellets to dry hop.

Pellets for dry hopping just give you more bang for your buck, that's all.

 

[Bob]

Depends on preference and setup.

I prefer whole flowers or plugs for the boil. My kettle has an outlet under a screen. Whole flowers make a lovely filter bed over the screen; whole flowers give me star-bright bitter wort every time, with very little break material or other organic matter going to the fermenter. Pellets give me sludge, no matter how vigorously I whirlpool. In my experience, whole hops absorb no more wort than pellets. It appears they do, because there's more lofty bulk in the leafy matter; because pellets are powdered whole hops, they can settle into a more compact mass. Pellets can also "set" the kettle cast-out: Like grinding too fine in the grist, which promotes stuck mash, too fine a particle in the kettle can "stick" the knockout.

I prefer pellets for post-fermentation additions. I dissolve the pellets in a bit of just-below-boiling-hot water and add the slurry to the tank. This breaks apart the pellets, instantly giving infinitely more contact with the hops material. The same principle is at work here which tells us we can expect 10% greater utilization in the kettle with pellets.

If you insist on worrying about wort loss, be a brewer and adjust your liquor totals. I don't get why that's a "con".

Lastly, blind test panels and professional brewers note a difference between the results of pellets and whole flowers which brewing science cannot quantify.

Therefore, saying "pellets are superior" doesn't make sense.* It's like saying "Philips-head screwdrivers are superior to all other types". They're just different tools for different applications.

Cheers,

Bob

* Except in issues of pure economics, of interest to professional brewers constrained by bean-counters. Even then many commercial breweries insist on whole-flower hops, when pellets or even isomerized hops extracts are within their capability.

 

[HopSong]

My question.. at least for me.. is extract brewing.. Sorry I didn't include that in the OP. I'm not at AG yet. Certainly the pellets are very convenient.

With whole hops, are you losing something when you put the whole hops in a bag vs floating them in the wort? I kinda like the idea of whole hops when available.. but not sure whether to purchase some vs the pellets.

Thanks for all the replies

 

[unionrdr]

I've used both in the kettle & dry hopping,loose & bagged. I think that whole leaf or "raw" hops as Hop Union calls them give better depth of flavor than pellets. I think it might be due to the dried hop cones being ground & pressed under heat & pressure into pellet form.
If I want a little more perceived bittering in late additions,I have used pellets for the reasons/theories mentioned. When it comes right down to it,I think they both have their place.

 

[Hops4life]

Personally I like the whole hops just for the aroma while using them. Nothing like hat fresh hop smell!!

But from what I understand is that usually pellets are more efficient than flowers. At least that's what I have heard I am still a bit of a noob so I can't really attest to just how true or false that is.

 

[Brewchitect]

I like this conversation and have a couple theories. I feel that pellets dry-hopped would be better because the whole leaf could tend to keep the lupalin in the center of the cones. There is no fluid movement in a carboy (after primary ferm), unless you shake the carboy, unlike a rolling boil which seems it would get out every bit of this oil.

So basically I feel it doesnt matter in the boil, unless you dont have a kettle screen for filtering whole leaf. And pellets dont seem good if you are trying to harvest your yeast, not sure if it matters when harvesting but I wouldnt want all those pellet hops rotting in my mason jars in the fridge until I use the yeast again.

 

[DonnieZ]

Unless you grow your own or have a good source, most whole hops are dried. I find that they tend to rehydrate themselves in the course of a week long dryhop and steal too much precious beer.

However, I still use them over pellet hops because I think pellet hops would fall to the bottom quite quickly and not give the desired effect.

 

[Bob]

With whole hops, are you losing something when you put the whole hops in a bag vs floating them in the wort?

No matter what type of hops you use, if you pack them too densely in a bag you'll lower utilization, because it's important that the wort flow around the particles. When hops pellets break up in the wort, the same principle applies.

So basically I feel it doesnt matter in the boil, unless you dont have a kettle screen for filtering whole leaf.

That's when whole flowers really come into their own - if you don't have a screen! A screen always helps, of course, but if you set it up right you can use whole flowers as the filter medium when casting out a screen-less kettle. I've done that many, many times, and ended up with star-bright bitter wort. That's something you simply cannot accomplish with pellets, because the particles are too small. Hell, in my experience most of the time a screen doesn't help much if at all when using mostly pellets!

And pellets dont seem good if you are trying to harvest your yeast, not sure if it matters when harvesting but I wouldnt want all those pellet hops rotting in my mason jars in the fridge until I use the yeast again.

If you're harvesting to immediately re-pitch it doesn't make that big of a difference, unless we're talking about a LOT of vegetable matter making it into the fermenter. The wise brewer will take every step to reduce that, anyway, so if you're ending up with a lot of hops material in your fermenter you should examine your knockout technique with a view to reducing it. If you're thinking of harvesting from a heavily-hopped beer, with lots of dry-hops, well, don't.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Brewchitect]

I built this kettle screen because I clogged my hoses with whole leaf, but I can see how if my down tube were closer to the bottom of the kettle maybe the leaf hops would make themselves into a filter, cool idea. I'm new to harvesting yeast just since I made this filter, it's pretty fine mesh but like you say it doesnt stop everything from pellets. I like the idea of the leaf hops acting as a filter on the filter, maybe i'll stick with whole leaf from now on, thanks.

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[Bob]

The trick to avoiding pick-up tubes getting clogged by solids is patience and powerful whirlpool. If you can do it, have another port added to your kettle far enough above the floor to be just under the surface of your brew length. Slowly recirculate with your pump, becoming more vigorous as the trub settles.*

Whirlpooling is something most homebrewers don't do, and it contributes a LOT to bitter-wort clarity and hassle-free knockout.

Bob

* You do have a speed control on your pump, right?

 

[Brewchitect]

I've never whirlpooled, I only have one pump. I plan on another someday. I'll do some research on it, from what I understand the whirlpool gets everything into the center of the kettle and then your pick up tube is up against the wall of the kettle with no screen? I haven't heard the terms 'bitter-wort' or 'knockout' before, I love this forum, learn everyday.

*and for speed control I have a ball valve on the 'out' side of the pump.

 

[stompbox]

The trick to avoiding pick-up tubes getting clogged by solids is patience and powerful whirlpool. If you can do it, have another port added to your kettle far enough above the floor to be just under the surface of your brew length. Slowly recirculate with your pump, becoming more vigorous as the trub settles.*

Whirlpooling is something most homebrewers don't do, and it contributes a LOT to bitter-wort clarity and hassle-free knockout.

Bob

* You do have a speed control on your pump, right?

I whirlpool but i feel it is negated by the fact that I have to lean my kettle to get all the worth through the valve when the wort volume is below the valve.....

 

[Bob]

Sorry, Brewchitecht; I tend to slip into jargon. Jargon is useful, as it lets us "in the know" communicate both more effectively and in a manner mystifying to those not privy to the secrets of the guild.

Good on yer for controlling flow on the pump's output. I know too many people who blew pumps up doing it the wrong way round. You can also control pump speed with a simple potentiometer circuit. so that no flow restriction is necessary.

Stompbox: Whirlpool then let things settle. If you're drawing all but the last few drops out of the kettle before disturbing the "sludge cone", you should be fine.

Cheers,

Bob