White labs wlp565 saison I

[bierandbikes]

I am confused! Your schedule had me pitch around 70, then raise 2 degrees per day to 90 (I actually only got up to 84), then hold until I hit 21 days. My assumption was that after the 21 days in the primary, it was ready bottle. Now you say "DO NOT BOTTLE."

I did not know this strain had Brett in it.

Are you saying that I now need to move it to a secondary and bulk age for 8 months? I planned to leave it until day 21 (or sometime thereafter) and then cold crash for a few days and bottle, then condition in the bottles for a couple of months. I also hoped that the SG would drop a couple of more points.

Please clarify.

Edit: Did some checking and there is 0 Brett in this strain. It is isolated from the Dupont strain but contains no Brett. Conditioning for extended time sounds good but no need to worry about 8 months of fermenting by the little Brett cells. As long as FG is reached, which I have already exceeded the claimed attenuation by a good bit, should be okay to bottle. 3-4 weeks in the primary seems good and then bottle and condition for 6+ weeks or longer if I can keep from drinking it. I plan to wash the yeast and make another that I will bulk condition for a few months, possibly with some Brett in the secondary.

 

[Aschecte]

I am confused! Your schedule had me pitch around 70, then raise 2 degrees per day to 90 (I actually only got up to 84), then hold until I hit 21 days. My assumption was that after the 21 days in the primary, it was ready bottle. Now you say "DO NOT BOTTLE."

I did not know this strain had Brett in it.

Are you saying that I now need to move it to a secondary and bulk age for 8 months? I planned to leave it until day 21 (or sometime thereafter) and then cold crash for a few days and bottle, then condition in the bottles for a couple of months. I also hoped that the SG would drop a couple of more points.

Please clarify.

Edit: Did some checking and there is 0 Brett in this strain. It is isolated from the Dupont strain but contains no Brett. Conditioning for extended time sounds good but no need to worry about 8 months of fermenting by the little Brett cells. As long as FG is reached, which I have already exceeded the claimed attenuation by a good bit, should be okay to bottle. 3-4 weeks in the primary seems good and then bottle and condition for 6+ weeks or longer if I can keep from drinking it. I plan to wash the yeast and make another that I will bulk condition for a few months, possibly with some Brett in the secondary.

Holy crap !!!!! I am so sorry I am doing two separate threads that are almost identical...... one is a brett saison this one is not !!! wlp565 is the DuPont strain..... no brett I am so sorry disregard my last post hell I am going to delete it as not to confuse anyone else.... I am sorry .... but as long as your gravity is stable you are fine though I do think you could squeeze a bit more out of wlp565 it took me a while to hit FG. I apologize I really feel like an ass after reading what I wrote. so sorry , now that I wrote that here it means I didn't post the correct answer to the guy who actually asked the brett question and now probably has bottle bombs. damn. :smack:

 

[bierandbikes]

Relax...no worries. It actually prompted me to do a little more research into this particular yeast strain. Also, I have not yet bottled it. I am at 28 days and plan to bottle on Sunday. I have not taken another gravity reading but it has been quiet for many days. I turned off the heat at day 22 and let it drop back to 69-70 over the next several days. I added a couple of ice packs to the water bath last night. I don't have my new temp chamber hooked up yet.

I am looking forward to doing some beers with Brett so I now know that I can plan on tying up a carboy for many months.

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll post a tasting note when I finally open a bottle. This weekend I get to put a bottle of my Trappist yeast fermented spiced pumpkin ale in the fridge for a taste/carbonation test. Very exciting.

 

[Aschecte]

Relax...no worries. It actually prompted me to do a little more research into this particular yeast strain. Also, I have not yet bottled it. I am at 28 days and plan to bottle on Sunday. I have not taken another gravity reading but it has been quiet for many days. I turned off the heat at day 22 and let it drop back to 69-70 over the next several days. I added a couple of ice packs to the water bath last night. I don't have my new temp chamber hooked up yet.

I am looking forward to doing some beers with Brett so I now know that I can plan on tying up a carboy for many months.

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll post a tasting note when I finally open a bottle. This weekend I get to put a bottle of my Trappist yeast fermented spiced pumpkin ale in the fridge for a taste/carbonation test. Very exciting.

Thanks for understanding ! I was doing another thread similar to this one called saison brett and I got myself confused as to which thread I was posting in. FWIW al the other info about temperature rises etc. were correct just the length of time was completely wrong. WLP565 may take a drop longer sometimes to finish and it sure dies like high temps but it makes a damn fine beer that I promise. Good luck !!! and enjoy !

 

[bierandbikes]

I just bottled this brew last night. FG was 1.008 (although I stuck my hydrometer in some water and think it is reading 1.002 off so actual FG at 1.006). No change from the reading taken at day 12.

Aroma was nice and flavor good at 65F. After chilling for a bit in the fridge I detected a slight solvent flavor but it was also sitting in a glass for a while. I think this may take some time to condition but I'll start cracking them open in about 4 weeks. Interesting, when I took my sample it had some reasonable carbonation.

 

[bierandbikes]

I know that I should have waited but I couldn't. After just over two weeks in the bottle, I put a 0.5L in the fridge for 3 days. Cracked it open last night to a loud "pop" and the most beautiful looking beer. The color was a beautiful light gold with perfect white head. The flavor was incredible. No doubt about the Belgian heritage of this yeast. Light fruitiness, just the right amount of hops to balance the malt, nice light body (still at 5.9% ABV), and a pleasing aftertaste. Brings back fond memories of my time in Europe.

Aschecte, thanks for the advice. I washed some of this yeast and plan to brew another batch with it right after christmas. I may change my recipe slightly, but follow the same fermentation schedule. I see this beer going fast.

 

[Smellyglove]

After reading this thread the thought of making my first Saison has become even more intriguing.

Can I ask what reciepe you used? Or, even better. What the new reciepe will look like after you did the changes you said you would?

 

[HeuristicsInc]

I brewed a Saison from Brewing Classic Styles on Sunday. Had a little trouble with mash efficiency and ended up only about 1.052. I let the temp get down to about 73 and pitched my 1.5L starter of WLP 565 around 7pm. When I woke up in the morning, there were lots of bubbles going out through the blowoff tube. Temp at 72.
My wife took a look at it for me in the afternoon with the same results.
When I got home around 630PM, no airlock activity and temp still steady at 72.

Should this yeast have finished that quickly and that cool-ly? I've got it in the basement right now, but I can move it to my breezeway if that'll help. I don't think I'll be able to ramp the temps up usefully, though... just finished reading this thread and I don't see an experience like that.

Thanks in advance.
-bill

 

[mgohring]

If you haven't taken a gravity reading yet, I'd give that a shot. I'd be interested to see where your gravity is already. Even if blow off activity has slowed/stopped the yeast will be working away. I'm guessing there's still a bunch of krausen present? Is the wort still milky with suspended yeast?

What are you fermenting in? If it's a bucket, is the lid sealed tightly? Could CO2 be escaping somewhere else other than the blow off tube?

 

[HeuristicsInc]

Yeah, it's in a bucket. I checked the seals on everything, seems good... if I press down on the lid, I see the air pocket in the blowoff tube go down the expected amount. I don't usually open the lid this early, so I have no idea about the gravity/krausen yet. Was planning to do that later in the week, unless you think it's important to try it earlier.

 

[mgohring]

You don't necessarily need to take a reading this early. Waiting a week won't hurt anything. Was just curious to see where things are at this early on in the process with this strain.

I've only used this strain twice so far, the second being a batch I brewed on 6/22. That batch fermented violently for 3-4 days and then blow off activity tapered way off. The yeast stayed in suspension for a good week and a half before it started to flocc out. A reading on day 7 had the beer at 83% attenuated (1.054 - 1.009) and 87% (1.007) as of yesterday. Starter yeast was pitched at 65 degrees and held at 70 for the rest of the time.

Keep us updated on how your beer turns out.

 

[HeuristicsInc]

I pulled the blowoff tube plug out briefly and shone a flashlight in, and there is a lot of krausen... I'm inclined to leave it for now. I'll post again when I check the gravity in a few days.
Thanks!
-bill

 

[HeuristicsInc]

Okay, I racked this saison today, and despite the fact that it didn't even bubble for 24 hours, and it never got above 74F, the gravity's at 1.007. Looking good! I'll keep it in secondary for a while, since White Labs says this one sometimes wakes up after two weeks and starts going again.
Tastes very interesting and good. Looking forward to drinking it for real.
-bill

 

[mgohring]

Sounds like you're on your way to a great saison. That BCS recipe is solid and has worked well for me in the past.

 

[HeuristicsInc]

Looking good - got down to 1.004 without ever getting hot. Good airlock activity after racking to secondary brought it down to that level, which makes a 6% brew, very nice. Looking forward to drinking it, I bottled last night.
-bill

 

[SillyMonkeyBrewery]

Reopening this thread. I just did a saison for the second time with WLP565. First batch was for a comp and I got hit on low phenols so I spent more time with this batch at 80F. Pulled a bit tonight and tested. I attenuated at 90% which is crazy high and have high alcohol flavor - not sure if it is fussel or not, just very alcoholic tasting. Anyone else have this issue? Do you think this might be because it is young?

My plan was to let it sit for 5 more days at 80F then rack it off and let age for a week - cold crash - keg. I am worried about doing this now. Advice?

Edit: I pitched exactly 1 week ago tonight.

 

[bkboiler]

what was ur temp profile through the fermentation?
i am bottling a saison tomorrow that used 565. i ramped up to 80F+ after day 5. fully attenuated, no off flavors. balanced yeast phenols and esters, but i have a very biased palate since i brewed it! ; )
what score did the judge give you?

 

[SillyMonkeyBrewery]

what was ur temp profile through the fermentation?
i am bottling a saison tomorrow that used 565. i ramped up to 80F+ after day 5. fully attenuated, no off flavors. balanced yeast phenols and esters, but i have a very biased palate since i brewed it! ; )
what score did the judge give you?

I think after reading this is where I may have screwed up. I started at what was 65 - but it was actually 62 because dummy me forgot to adjust the temp controller. Once I hit high krausen i went to 72 and held there for 2 days. Once activity levels slowed down i went to 80 but still had krausen.

First time I made it i started at 70 and once past high krausen added 1 degree each day till I hit 80 and held for 3 days. With this batch I did have a slight green apple off flavor which I attributed for starting at 70.

I am assuming this current batch was not attenuated enough to go to 80.

I scored a 28 with my first batch - a number I am not really proud of - but it was much more than the phenol. I was off with my recipe with too few malt and hop characteristics. Made those adjustments and I will admit this one came out fantastic even with the alcohol. I was just really surprised by the 90% attenuation and the alcohol. I did not get either of those results in my first batch.

 

[bkboiler]

gotcha...sometimes brewers intentionally stress out saison yeast to give more esters if that's the flavor profile they're going for. nothing about your temp profile seems terribly off to me.
i subbed 565 for the dupont strain(hard to find) when i brewed this...i followed the OP's instructions for temp ramps just the same.
green apple off flavor could be acetaldehyde which would indicate that the beer may have needed to sit on the yeast cake longer to let the yeasties clean up after themselves. how long after hitting FG was it on the yeast?

 

[SillyMonkeyBrewery]

gotcha...sometimes brewers intentionally stress out saison yeast to give more esters if that's the flavor profile they're going for. nothing about your temp profile seems terribly off to me.
i subbed 565 for the dupont strain(hard to find) when i brewed this...i followed the OP's instructions for temp ramps just the same.
green apple off flavor could be acetaldehyde which would indicate that the beer may have needed to sit on the yeast cake longer to let the yeasties clean up after themselves. how long after hitting FG was it on the yeast?

If I had to guess, 4-5 days? Then I pulled it off the yeast and cold crashed it for 3 days.

 

[Dog House Brew]

My 565 Saison sits for 3 weeks, period. I don't care about the gravity or anything, 3 weeks. I pitch at 65, let it free rise sitting at room temp, 68. Probably gets up to 72-73. When it slows I turn the heat to 80.

 

[bkboiler]

yep...i was aggressive with the temp ramp with this strain since i heard it is notorious for pooping out at around 1.02

 

[SillyMonkeyBrewery]

My 565 Saison sits for 3 weeks, period. I don't care about the gravity or anything, 3 weeks. I pitch at 65, let it free rise sitting at room temp, 68. Probably gets up to 72-73. When it slows I turn the heat to 80.

Makes sense. Seems I need to hold firm at lower temp for a while then ramp up later in the fermentation. Stay tuned for version 3!

 

[TastyAdventure]

I cold crashed this for 3 days, then brought back up to room temp, dry hopped for 5 days, then tacked to keg.
It's super cloudy still, and it tastes so yeasty, like a gravity sample.
Will a few more days in the cold keg make it floc out and clear up, tasting better?

 

[terrenum]

Brewed a saison today and will use this strain in 1 carboy. I also have another one with the WLP670 American Farmhouse and 1 with the Wyeast 3724 Which I guess is somewhat similar to the 565.
Grain bill is simple. approx. 50% Pils, 20% 2 row, 15% wheat, then flaked barley and a touch of Crystal 80L

Pitched the yeast in at 75F and planning to let it go at that temperature for 3-4 weeks before racking in secondary. Will also add Brett WLP648 after a few days.

Do you think I will get less complexity since I am not ramping up the temperature (starting lower and going up to 80)?