White labs wlp565 saison I

[laserghost]

i did NOT post three times ... or even two. wtf ...

 

[Kealia]

On the advice of a friend who works at my LHBS and just recently opened his own brewery, I'm using this strain in a 1.085 OG Golden Strong Ale next week. I'll be making a starter the day before to ramp up the number of cells I'm pitching, but I'm targeting about 15million/ml. His exact words were "don't be afraid to let this ferment hot".

I've tasted the beer that he brewed at his brewery which I'm essentially replicating and I can say that I have no worries in doing so. Ask me again in 2 weeks once it's been fermenting and I may have a different story :cross:

I plan on pitching at 75, letting it rise naturally for a few days and then wrapping it with a dog-bed heater and a blanket to raise it to about 85 or so for 2 weeks before even checking the gravity.

Here's to hoping it works out well.

Update:
This has been in the fermenter for exactly 2 weeks now and it's dropped from 1.085 to 1.006 (temp corrected). I pitched at 75, let it free rise for 48 hours and then jacked it up to about 85 where it's stayed since then.

It smells nice and fruity/spicy and I don't detect any hot alcohol or other off flavors/aromas as a result.

I'm going to take this off the heat now and let it drop naturally to room temp which will be about 66 for the next week before crashing it for clarity and bottling it up.

At this point, I'm pretty impressed with this yeast!

 

[spak]

I just used this yeast last month. I made pretty standard grist(I havent use pils because of my apt stove setup and not having faith in the the ability to boil off flavor from the pils compounds)

Anyways:

50% pale 2 Row Briess brewers
23% White Wheat malt
14% table sugar
9% munich 10L
5% carapils

I hopped it with .5 oz Saaz(3%) at 60 and .5 oz of Nelson Sauvin and Sorachi Ace at 15,7,3,0 min. After seeing some comments about letting it go at normal temps for a bit and then ramping; I went with 68F for 2 days then ramped it to 85F over 2 days with a heat lamp and a blanketed bucket in a chest freezer; and let it sit there for the rest of the 3 week ferment.

Final product had a lot of lemon, pear, orange, pineapple, grape, apple with pepper, clove, and earthy yeast notes. Extremely balanced. Carbed in bottles at 2.9 vol. Nice and crisp but still flavorful. Ended at 6.4%. I will be using this strain again for sure.

IME(though a single experience), start fermentation low and finish high and you are good to go(for what I like in a saison at at least) Cheers

 

[sikkingj]

This my first time using WLP565 or brewing a Saison, so I'm looking for a little reassurance. I pitched at 65-ish and let free rise to about 75 for about 2 weeks. I've read that the yeast likes it warmer, so I just put it outside to finish up (temperature today a balmy 93, 85 under the porch where I have it) - but I'm still a little worried.

From what I have read it may need another 3-4 weeks at DC summer temperatures. Anyone have luck with these type of temperatures?

And yes, I have it protected form the rain.

 

[Aschecte]

I can assure you as I have uses 565 more times than I can count at this point you will finish out fine. The key here and I would have done it bit differently ( not better or worse ) is to leave it for about three days at free rise then 2 degrees a day over 2 weeks until I hit 90 degrees. You will hit a low fG doing this. As to putting it outside under the porch it will take more than 1 day in that heat to make a difference and remember you never want to shock the yeast going from let's say 76 to 90 in one day...... I would also be more concerned about light exposure than rain. I'm sure it will then out just fine.

 

[bierandbikes]

Aschecte, with your vast experience using this yeast, assuming I follow your schedule of pitching at 70, free rise for 3 days, and then raise 2 degrees per day over two weeks to 90, how long should I plan to leave this in the primary? Also, is secondary necessary? My carboy is tied up so this will be in the bucket if that makes a difference. And finally, after bottling, what it minimum time and temp before drinking?

 

[Aschecte]

Aschecte, with your vast experience using this yeast, assuming I follow your schedule of pitching at 70, free rise for 3 days, and then raise 2 degrees per day over two weeks to 90, how long should I plan to leave this in the primary? Also, is secondary necessary? My carboy is tied up so this will be in the bucket if that makes a difference. And finally, after bottling, what it minimum time and temp before drinking?

Sorry for the delayed reply I have been away from the computer...re doing my house...... Ok down to the question..... if you let it free rise for the 3 days assuming a starting temp of 70 you would appx. be at 73-75 degrees with the natural rise this is also assuming a 70 degree room temp. So at 2 degrees a day you will hit 90 degrees in 7-8 days....... that is appx. 11 days to hit 90. when I say 3 weeks I mean including the 11 to get to 90 or so I have also fermented below 90 and it finish just fine but the flavor really comes out at 90 incredible. so 3 weeks is 3 weeks TOTAL not reach 90 then 3 weeks. In all reality your beer will tell you when it is done based upon your recipe...... lots of dextrins your going to finish high no mater hat the temp but if you brewed a traditional saison recipe you made a very fermentable wort so expect a low FG..... I would go based on that over a set amount of time of 3 weeks. As to the secondary no not really needed though others feel different actually with this strain I would recommend leaving it only in primary as you want to leave the beer in contact with as much viable yeast as possible to finish it out. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[bierandbikes]

Thanks for the reply and info. Brew day is this Friday so I will get my start going soon. Very simple recipe for a traditional, highly fermentable, saison/farmhouse ale. Hoping to capture the belgian/french farmhouse character. It may be a while, but I'll try to post results once I start drinking. I plan to wash yeast at the end so I can play with the fermentation in the future.

 

[bierandbikes]

Using the aquarium heater I have only been able to get this up to 81. I did acquire an old freezer so hopefully by the next time I do this I can actually get it up to 90!

Next question as this has been in the fermenter for about 10 days...any issues with carbing up in the bottles? Any need for a second yeast? (I have not taken a gravity reading yet, so hopefully all is well. I will check this week.)

 

[bierandbikes]

Just checked the SG...1.008. That is over 84% attenuation! I followed the recommended fermenting schedule with pitching at around 67, let it free rise for 3 days, and then slowly ramped up to 81 (no more capacity). Aroma is subtle fruity with fruity/spicy flavor. Another week or so in the fermenter and then into the bottles for another month or so of conditioning.

 

[bierandbikes]

I am confused! Your schedule had me pitch around 70, then raise 2 degrees per day to 90 (I actually only got up to 84), then hold until I hit 21 days. My assumption was that after the 21 days in the primary, it was ready bottle. Now you say "DO NOT BOTTLE."

I did not know this strain had Brett in it.

Are you saying that I now need to move it to a secondary and bulk age for 8 months? I planned to leave it until day 21 (or sometime thereafter) and then cold crash for a few days and bottle, then condition in the bottles for a couple of months. I also hoped that the SG would drop a couple of more points.

Please clarify.

Edit: Did some checking and there is 0 Brett in this strain. It is isolated from the Dupont strain but contains no Brett. Conditioning for extended time sounds good but no need to worry about 8 months of fermenting by the little Brett cells. As long as FG is reached, which I have already exceeded the claimed attenuation by a good bit, should be okay to bottle. 3-4 weeks in the primary seems good and then bottle and condition for 6+ weeks or longer if I can keep from drinking it. I plan to wash the yeast and make another that I will bulk condition for a few months, possibly with some Brett in the secondary.

 

[Aschecte]

I am confused! Your schedule had me pitch around 70, then raise 2 degrees per day to 90 (I actually only got up to 84), then hold until I hit 21 days. My assumption was that after the 21 days in the primary, it was ready bottle. Now you say "DO NOT BOTTLE."

I did not know this strain had Brett in it.

Are you saying that I now need to move it to a secondary and bulk age for 8 months? I planned to leave it until day 21 (or sometime thereafter) and then cold crash for a few days and bottle, then condition in the bottles for a couple of months. I also hoped that the SG would drop a couple of more points.

Please clarify.

Edit: Did some checking and there is 0 Brett in this strain. It is isolated from the Dupont strain but contains no Brett. Conditioning for extended time sounds good but no need to worry about 8 months of fermenting by the little Brett cells. As long as FG is reached, which I have already exceeded the claimed attenuation by a good bit, should be okay to bottle. 3-4 weeks in the primary seems good and then bottle and condition for 6+ weeks or longer if I can keep from drinking it. I plan to wash the yeast and make another that I will bulk condition for a few months, possibly with some Brett in the secondary.

Holy crap !!!!! I am so sorry I am doing two separate threads that are almost identical...... one is a brett saison this one is not !!! wlp565 is the DuPont strain..... no brett I am so sorry disregard my last post hell I am going to delete it as not to confuse anyone else.... I am sorry .... but as long as your gravity is stable you are fine though I do think you could squeeze a bit more out of wlp565 it took me a while to hit FG. I apologize I really feel like an ass after reading what I wrote. so sorry , now that I wrote that here it means I didn't post the correct answer to the guy who actually asked the brett question and now probably has bottle bombs. damn. :smack:

 

[bierandbikes]

Relax...no worries. It actually prompted me to do a little more research into this particular yeast strain. Also, I have not yet bottled it. I am at 28 days and plan to bottle on Sunday. I have not taken another gravity reading but it has been quiet for many days. I turned off the heat at day 22 and let it drop back to 69-70 over the next several days. I added a couple of ice packs to the water bath last night. I don't have my new temp chamber hooked up yet.

I am looking forward to doing some beers with Brett so I now know that I can plan on tying up a carboy for many months.

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll post a tasting note when I finally open a bottle. This weekend I get to put a bottle of my Trappist yeast fermented spiced pumpkin ale in the fridge for a taste/carbonation test. Very exciting.

 

[Aschecte]

Relax...no worries. It actually prompted me to do a little more research into this particular yeast strain. Also, I have not yet bottled it. I am at 28 days and plan to bottle on Sunday. I have not taken another gravity reading but it has been quiet for many days. I turned off the heat at day 22 and let it drop back to 69-70 over the next several days. I added a couple of ice packs to the water bath last night. I don't have my new temp chamber hooked up yet.

I am looking forward to doing some beers with Brett so I now know that I can plan on tying up a carboy for many months.

Thanks for all the great advice. I'll post a tasting note when I finally open a bottle. This weekend I get to put a bottle of my Trappist yeast fermented spiced pumpkin ale in the fridge for a taste/carbonation test. Very exciting.

Thanks for understanding ! I was doing another thread similar to this one called saison brett and I got myself confused as to which thread I was posting in. FWIW al the other info about temperature rises etc. were correct just the length of time was completely wrong. WLP565 may take a drop longer sometimes to finish and it sure dies like high temps but it makes a damn fine beer that I promise. Good luck !!! and enjoy !

 

[bierandbikes]

I just bottled this brew last night. FG was 1.008 (although I stuck my hydrometer in some water and think it is reading 1.002 off so actual FG at 1.006). No change from the reading taken at day 12.

Aroma was nice and flavor good at 65F. After chilling for a bit in the fridge I detected a slight solvent flavor but it was also sitting in a glass for a while. I think this may take some time to condition but I'll start cracking them open in about 4 weeks. Interesting, when I took my sample it had some reasonable carbonation.

 

[bierandbikes]

I know that I should have waited but I couldn't. After just over two weeks in the bottle, I put a 0.5L in the fridge for 3 days. Cracked it open last night to a loud "pop" and the most beautiful looking beer. The color was a beautiful light gold with perfect white head. The flavor was incredible. No doubt about the Belgian heritage of this yeast. Light fruitiness, just the right amount of hops to balance the malt, nice light body (still at 5.9% ABV), and a pleasing aftertaste. Brings back fond memories of my time in Europe.

Aschecte, thanks for the advice. I washed some of this yeast and plan to brew another batch with it right after christmas. I may change my recipe slightly, but follow the same fermentation schedule. I see this beer going fast.

 

[Smellyglove]

After reading this thread the thought of making my first Saison has become even more intriguing.

Can I ask what reciepe you used? Or, even better. What the new reciepe will look like after you did the changes you said you would?

 

[HeuristicsInc]

I brewed a Saison from Brewing Classic Styles on Sunday. Had a little trouble with mash efficiency and ended up only about 1.052. I let the temp get down to about 73 and pitched my 1.5L starter of WLP 565 around 7pm. When I woke up in the morning, there were lots of bubbles going out through the blowoff tube. Temp at 72.
My wife took a look at it for me in the afternoon with the same results.
When I got home around 630PM, no airlock activity and temp still steady at 72.

Should this yeast have finished that quickly and that cool-ly? I've got it in the basement right now, but I can move it to my breezeway if that'll help. I don't think I'll be able to ramp the temps up usefully, though... just finished reading this thread and I don't see an experience like that.

Thanks in advance.
-bill

 

[mgohring]

If you haven't taken a gravity reading yet, I'd give that a shot. I'd be interested to see where your gravity is already. Even if blow off activity has slowed/stopped the yeast will be working away. I'm guessing there's still a bunch of krausen present? Is the wort still milky with suspended yeast?

What are you fermenting in? If it's a bucket, is the lid sealed tightly? Could CO2 be escaping somewhere else other than the blow off tube?

 

[HeuristicsInc]

Yeah, it's in a bucket. I checked the seals on everything, seems good... if I press down on the lid, I see the air pocket in the blowoff tube go down the expected amount. I don't usually open the lid this early, so I have no idea about the gravity/krausen yet. Was planning to do that later in the week, unless you think it's important to try it earlier.

 

[mgohring]

You don't necessarily need to take a reading this early. Waiting a week won't hurt anything. Was just curious to see where things are at this early on in the process with this strain.

I've only used this strain twice so far, the second being a batch I brewed on 6/22. That batch fermented violently for 3-4 days and then blow off activity tapered way off. The yeast stayed in suspension for a good week and a half before it started to flocc out. A reading on day 7 had the beer at 83% attenuated (1.054 - 1.009) and 87% (1.007) as of yesterday. Starter yeast was pitched at 65 degrees and held at 70 for the rest of the time.

Keep us updated on how your beer turns out.

 

[HeuristicsInc]

I pulled the blowoff tube plug out briefly and shone a flashlight in, and there is a lot of krausen... I'm inclined to leave it for now. I'll post again when I check the gravity in a few days.
Thanks!
-bill

 

[HeuristicsInc]

Okay, I racked this saison today, and despite the fact that it didn't even bubble for 24 hours, and it never got above 74F, the gravity's at 1.007. Looking good! I'll keep it in secondary for a while, since White Labs says this one sometimes wakes up after two weeks and starts going again.
Tastes very interesting and good. Looking forward to drinking it for real.
-bill

 

[mgohring]

Sounds like you're on your way to a great saison. That BCS recipe is solid and has worked well for me in the past.

 

[HeuristicsInc]

Looking good - got down to 1.004 without ever getting hot. Good airlock activity after racking to secondary brought it down to that level, which makes a 6% brew, very nice. Looking forward to drinking it, I bottled last night.
-bill

 

[SillyMonkeyBrewery]

Reopening this thread. I just did a saison for the second time with WLP565. First batch was for a comp and I got hit on low phenols so I spent more time with this batch at 80F. Pulled a bit tonight and tested. I attenuated at 90% which is crazy high and have high alcohol flavor - not sure if it is fussel or not, just very alcoholic tasting. Anyone else have this issue? Do you think this might be because it is young?

My plan was to let it sit for 5 more days at 80F then rack it off and let age for a week - cold crash - keg. I am worried about doing this now. Advice?

Edit: I pitched exactly 1 week ago tonight.

 

[bkboiler]

what was ur temp profile through the fermentation?
i am bottling a saison tomorrow that used 565. i ramped up to 80F+ after day 5. fully attenuated, no off flavors. balanced yeast phenols and esters, but i have a very biased palate since i brewed it! ; )
what score did the judge give you?

 

[SillyMonkeyBrewery]

what was ur temp profile through the fermentation?
i am bottling a saison tomorrow that used 565. i ramped up to 80F+ after day 5. fully attenuated, no off flavors. balanced yeast phenols and esters, but i have a very biased palate since i brewed it! ; )
what score did the judge give you?

I think after reading this is where I may have screwed up. I started at what was 65 - but it was actually 62 because dummy me forgot to adjust the temp controller. Once I hit high krausen i went to 72 and held there for 2 days. Once activity levels slowed down i went to 80 but still had krausen.

First time I made it i started at 70 and once past high krausen added 1 degree each day till I hit 80 and held for 3 days. With this batch I did have a slight green apple off flavor which I attributed for starting at 70.

I am assuming this current batch was not attenuated enough to go to 80.

I scored a 28 with my first batch - a number I am not really proud of - but it was much more than the phenol. I was off with my recipe with too few malt and hop characteristics. Made those adjustments and I will admit this one came out fantastic even with the alcohol. I was just really surprised by the 90% attenuation and the alcohol. I did not get either of those results in my first batch.

 

[bkboiler]

gotcha...sometimes brewers intentionally stress out saison yeast to give more esters if that's the flavor profile they're going for. nothing about your temp profile seems terribly off to me.
i subbed 565 for the dupont strain(hard to find) when i brewed this...i followed the OP's instructions for temp ramps just the same.
green apple off flavor could be acetaldehyde which would indicate that the beer may have needed to sit on the yeast cake longer to let the yeasties clean up after themselves. how long after hitting FG was it on the yeast?

 

[SillyMonkeyBrewery]

gotcha...sometimes brewers intentionally stress out saison yeast to give more esters if that's the flavor profile they're going for. nothing about your temp profile seems terribly off to me.
i subbed 565 for the dupont strain(hard to find) when i brewed this...i followed the OP's instructions for temp ramps just the same.
green apple off flavor could be acetaldehyde which would indicate that the beer may have needed to sit on the yeast cake longer to let the yeasties clean up after themselves. how long after hitting FG was it on the yeast?

If I had to guess, 4-5 days? Then I pulled it off the yeast and cold crashed it for 3 days.