Whirlpool IBU contributions

[Sadu]

So I'm working on my own house APA, version one came out really good (hop-bursted Simcoe SMaSH) but I want to add some complexity and more late hop character. I'm looking for high citrusy grapefruit hop flavour and ABV but low bitterness, version one met that goal very well but I think I can improve. FWIW, I really think the hop-bursting provides a smoother bitterness and more flavour like people say it does.

Version 2 I tweaked lots of stuff, adjusted the water, added some Amarillo into the mix for complexity and doubled the flameout + dryhop additions. On brew day I decided I wasn't in a hurry and would try whirlpooling / steeping those flameout hops. By that I mean just leaving it for half an hour with the lid on instead of chilling straight away.

Later on I entered my notes into Beersmith and changed the flameout additions to whirlpool additions - the IBUs jumped from 35 to 60. Wasn't expecting that!

Now, I understand that it's all an estimate based on an unproven formula etc and if this thing turns into an IPA then I'm ok with that.

But does whirlpooling really add that much bitterness to a beer? I thought I could just keep the recipe the same and whirlpool the 0 min hops and maybe extract a bit more flavour out of them. But are we saying that whirlpooling/steeping creates such a change in the bitterness that one needs to adjust the recipe accordingly?

 

[RM-MN]

The isomerizing of the hop oils that causes the bittering continues down to about 180F so adding your hops at flameout without immediate chilling will increase the bitterness. Start chilling your beer and when it gets below 180 (I'd prefer 170) add the hops and stop chilling for however long you want to wait, then complete the chilling. For extra aroma, dry hop when the ferment is complete, then bottle.

 

[Oginme]

Remember that the calculation for IBU is based upon a model which does not account for everyone's individual process. If you take a flame out addition (0 minute boil add) the software assumes you are immediately chilling down your wort to below the point of any additional isomerization. So when you change this to a whirlpool/steep addition, the software model then assumes that there will be an additional amount of isomerization of the alpha acids based upon the timing entered. In reality, you may not actually be achieving any more perceived bitterness than you have with your flame out addition if you let the flame out addition steep for a while before chilling.

In short, While looking at the IBU estimations is nice as a tool to design by, use your taste buds as the final arbitrator of the actual bitterness you achieved.

 

[dmtaylor]

Most people's experience is to figure the IBUs as if the whirlpooled hops were boiled for half the time. So for example if you whirlpool warm for say 30 minutes, you'll get as many IBUs as if you had boiled the hops for 15 minutes. It can be a very significant impact depending on the alpha acid and how many you use.

 

[Sadu]

Thanks for the replies. One thing I love about pale ales is that they tend to taste great no matter what you do to them.
This could be pretty interesting since it's hop bursted with loads of high alpha late hops, if those start giving out IBUs then we are getting into IPA territory for sure. I will say that beersmith has been bang on with most of it's eztimates in my experience.

Guess I'll see how it tastes.

 

[Sadu]

Just cracked open a bottle for a little taste, thought I'd update the thread for anyone following.

This version is way more bitter than the previous one. This thing has definitely strayed from being an easy drinking APA into a respectable IPA.

This does have more hops, I doubled the flameout and quadrupled the dry hop but I was aiming to increase the flavour without much extra bitterness. But I think by not chilling a bit before whirlpooling all those late hops added a fair bit of IBUs into the mix.

It's a great beer still, just nothing like what I was aiming for. This is what I love about pale ales compared with lagers which punish you for little mistakes.

I'll try this again, but chill down to 170 before whirlpooling. Might also go with more Simcoe and less Amarillo, this is my first time using Amarillo but I prefer the Simcoe flavour I think.

 

[day_trippr]

Remember that the calculation for IBU is based upon a model which does not account for everyone's individual process. If you take a flame out addition (0 minute boil add) the software assumes you are immediately chilling down your wort to below the point of any additional isomerization. So when you change this to a whirlpool/steep addition, the software model then assumes that there will be an additional amount of isomerization of the alpha acids based upon the timing entered. [...].

Pretty sure this is exactly backwards. FO hops will add IBUs (that's why it's called "Flame Out" and not "Cooled Down") while whirlpool hops should not...

Cheers!

 

[RM-MN]

Pretty sure this is exactly backwards. FO hops will add IBUs (that's why it's called "Flame Out" and not "Cooled Down") while whirlpool hops should not...

Cheers!

Any time hops are added before the wort cools below about 180F they will add bitterness. Whirlpool hops are no exception. It is estimated that 90% of the bittering during the boil happens within 30 minutes. If your whirlpool takes even a few minutes to cool the wort there will be added bitterness.

 

[Oginme]

Pretty sure this is exactly backwards. FO hops will add IBUs (that's why it's called "Flame Out" and not "Cooled Down") while whirlpool hops should not...

Cheers!

Remember we are talking about the model and calculated IBU, not reality. This is why I take the calculated IBU with a rather large block of salt (despite Dr's orders to cut down on salt).