Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

[NeverDie]

Maybe you want to do two runs of tasting at the end, first the dry mead and then on another day the same mead but with a specified amount of sugar to backsweeten it. I think some of the flavours hide in the absence of sugar therefore to try both would be interesting.

Yes, something along those lines would seem to make sense.

 

[NeverDie]

That's exactly the calculator I also wanted to link to.

Good that you mentioned the fact that calciumchloride has this habit to attract H2O from the air, which results in less calciumchloride per weight the more water has been withdrawn from the air.

For that reason, i would just try to shoot for 65ppm which happens to be 0.25g calciumchloride per liter water. We would er on the safe side and even if no H2O would be attached to the CACL2, we would still be in a very reasonable range from a brewing water perspective. For testing purposes, it might be interesting to shoot for even more, to make possible effects a bit more visible.

For my beers, I generally try to go for about at least 100ppm which translates to 0.33g/l. I think this might also be OK for mead, but I am guessing.......

100ppm seems like a reasonable target. The guy who did the flocculation tests in the mead experiment got his best results in the water he tested at the highest end of the range, which was 75ppm. He didn't test higher, so maybe 100ppm would be even better as a target, especially since the bags of calcium choride that are commonly sold have probably already attracted a lot of water.

So, 100ppm would be 1.4g/gal of calcium chloride, assuming rph_guy's calculation earlier calculation above is correct that 0.7g/gal is 50ppm.

 

[Maylar]

I have a batch of traditional mead that I made using Fresco (separate from the yeast roundup), and by all rights it should be finished already, because on 3/27 it had a very steady measured SG of 0.996. It has, however, continued dropping weight since then.

My cyser seems to be done, sitting at 1.001. I attribute the difference to temperature, my brew room has been at the very bottom of Fresco's spec. Lots of lees in this one, and still a bit hazy. Time to rack & cold crash and see if the bentonite drops any more haze out.

 

[Miraculix]

Just a quick in between question, regarding your massive experiment, which ones are your flocculation champions so far?

 

[NeverDie]

I built a 1.4g/gal calcium chloride water just now this morning, and it has at most a faint taste to it that I'm sure won't be noticeable in a mead.

Question: If I were to heat the calcium chloride in an oven, would it drive off whatever water it may have absorbed, thereby leading to a more accurate weight measurement? If so, what oven temperature? I don't know anything about anhydrous, but the calcium chloride I have is the LD Carlson one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BSNU68S/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[NeverDie]

Just a quick in between question, regarding your massive experiment, which ones are your flocculation champions so far?

Yes, a few more are on the list now. I'll update shortly.

By the way, Fleishman's is in a greyzone, where it's sorta clear, but the haze is so thick I'm not counting it as clear. I'm going to repeat it, but this time using both GoFerm and calcium fortified water and see if it makes a difference or not. That's why I made the calcium chloride water this morning. There are a few others that are also in the same type of greyzone.

 

[Miraculix]

Yes, a few more are on the list now. I'll update shortly.

By the way, Fleishman's is in a greyzone, where it's sorta clear, but the haze is so thick I'm not counting it as clear. I'm going to repeat it, but this time using both GoFerm and calcium fortified water and see if it makes a difference or not. That's why I made the calcium chloride water this morning. There are a few others that are also in the same type of greyzone.

I think you got me wrong, I just wanted to know which of the yeasts you have used up until now have flocculated the best!

 

[NeverDie]

I think you got me wrong, I just wanted to know which of the yeasts you have used up until now have flocculated the best!

Understood. I'll update the list in the next 24-48 hours.

Off the top of my head, both DV10 and DV21 have both made the list, but some others (aside from the ones I mentioned earlier) have since become clear also.

 

[Miraculix]

Understood. I'll update the list in the next 24-48 hours.

Off the top of my head, both DV10 and DV21 have both made the list, but some others (aside from the ones I mentioned earlier) have since become clear also.

Thanks! Very interesting to hear that actually wine yeasts, which I always thought of as the worst flocculators ever, seem to be doing well in terms of flocculation.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Question: If I were to heat the calcium chloride in an oven, would it drive off whatever water it may have absorbed[...]?

Technically yes, but practically no, because it would absorb water as it were cooling. It's very rapid.

For fully accurate CaCl2 measurement, you need to make a solution and go by s.g. There are some good threads about this over in brew science.

If going by weight, keep sealed airtight with as little air as possible. Remember to account for which hydration state you purchased, whether anhydrous, dihydrate, etc.

 

[NeverDie]

Thanks! Very interesting to hear that actually wine yeasts, which I always thought of as the worst flocculators ever, seem to be doing well in terms of flocculation.

Per your request, the new list of yeast strains which so far have flocculated clear are (in no particular order):

1. K1V-1116
2. Vos Kveik
3. DV10
4. Belle Saison
5. D47
6. 71B
7. 1388
8. Wyeast Sweet Mead
9. D21
10. S0-4
11. Red Star Premier Blanc
12. EC-1118
13. Cote de Blanc

 

[NeverDie]

My cyser seems to be done, sitting at 1.001. I attribute the difference to temperature, my brew room has been at the very bottom of Fresco's spec. Lots of lees in this one, and still a bit hazy. Time to rack & cold crash and see if the bentonite drops any more haze out.

My Fresco Cyser also seems done and nearly opaque hazy. If I had it to do over, I suppose I would have added some pectic enzyme and maybe some calcium chloride as well. I'm now out of Fresco yeast, so I'll see how it does in the traditional meads before deciding whether to purchase any more of it. So far it hasn't flocculated clear in the traditional mead either.

 

[RPh_Guy]

FYI you want to get 71B off the lees relatively quickly because it can add off-flavors.

 

[Maylar]

FYI you want to get 71B off the lees relatively quickly because it can add off-flavors.

That's a myth/legend/fallacy that just won't go away. Autolysis takes time and pressure, and in the context of what we do as home brewers it's insignificant. I've had cider on 71B lees for a year with no ill effects.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I see, one of those commercial problems that doesn't apply to home brewing. Thanks!

 

[NeverDie]

FWIW, I've racked all the ones that have flocculated clear and thoroughly degassed them. So, that would include 71B. It will be easier now to monitor which of them have officially finished.

Also, QA23, which was the last to start, looks like it's either done or nearly done fermenting: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x1s9kXwmGgzb_pUc7chfcoLWFlnY2QYX5EQUq7L2ojU/edit?usp=sharing
SG has been 1.000 for a couple days now. I'll give it more time to be sure. It has not floocculated clear yet.

 

[Miraculix]

Per your request, the new list of yeast strains which so far have flocculated clear are (in no particular order):

1. K1V-1116
2. Vos Kveik
3. DV10
4. Belle Saison
5. D47
6. 71B
7. 1388
8. Wyeast Sweet Mead
9. D21
10. S0-4
11. Red Star Premier Blanc
12. EC-1118
13. Cote de Blanc

Thanks! Did not expect Belle Saison to be on the good floccer list

 

[Maylar]

Funny that flocculation is usually specified for beer / ale yeasts but I never see it for wine yeasts. Wine & mead makers generally rely on fining agents for clarification. I've never heard anybody talk about how one yeast clears any better without them than another. There's gotta be more here than meets the eye.

 

[bob1852]

Funny that flocculation is usually specified for beer / ale yeasts but I never see it for wine yeasts. Wine & mead makers generally rely on fining agents for clarification. I've never heard anybody talk about how one yeast clears any better without them than another. There's gotta be more here than meets the eye.

Yup. Bentonite in the primary and SuperKleer (or sparkolloid or even filtering) prior to bottling has been great for me....I haven't given a thought to flocc potential when choosing a yeast.

I focus on flavor profile, temperature range, and nutrient needs.

 

[Maylar]

Yup. Bentonite in the primary and SuperKleer (or sparkolloid or even filtering) prior to bottling has been great for me....I haven't given a thought to flocc potential when choosing a yeast.

I focus on flavor profile, temperature range, and nutrient needs.

I've never considered flocculation potential either. I don't know any wine or mead maker who does (until now). I don't want to dissuade NeverDie from his efforts though, maybe we'll all learn something from all this. It's just that, like I said, there must be more to this than we know. Otherwise floccing would be part of wine yeast specs as it is with ale.

 

[NeverDie]

I thought I read that those fining agents may remove some of the flavor. Any truth to that, or is it negligible?

 

[RPh_Guy]

His much bentonite do you guys use and when do you add it?

 

[NeverDie]

The gotmead manual explicitly considers flocculation when it talks about yeast properties. It ranks the various yeast strain flocculation tendencies as low, medium, or high: http://gotmead.com/blog/making-mead...-newbee-guide-to-making-mead-chapter-9-yeast/

 

[Maylar]

I thought I read that those fining agents may remove some of the flavor. Any truth to that, or is it negligible?

Different people report different effects. Ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Gelatin removes tannin. I'm told that Bentonite can leave a slight muddy taste if used post-ferment, though I haven't noticed that. Pectic enzyme can lessen citrus flavors. SuperKleer leaves a nasty medicinal taste unless you let it completely settle out and rack off it. It's all part of the learning process we go through.

His much bentonite do you guys use and when do you add it?

One TSP per gallon DRY added a couple days after vigorous fermentation has started. It can be used as a slurry post ferment too, instructions can be found on MoreWine's web site.

 

[Maylar]

The gotmead manual explicitly considers flocculation when it talks about yeast properties. It ranks the various yeast strain flocculation tendencies as low, medium, or high: http://gotmead.com/blog/making-mead...-newbee-guide-to-making-mead-chapter-9-yeast/

Cool - I never saw that. I even searched Scott Labs' handbook for flocculation and got no hits. Thanks.

 

[bob1852]

His much bentonite do you guys use and when do you add it?

I do ~3 grams per gallon when mixing the must.....UNLESS I'm adding pectin enzyme with fruit. If you use pectin enzyme wait ~24 hours to add bentonite. Apparently bentonite interferes with the pectin enzyme.

Also note that there's several types of bentonite and apparently need to be dosed/used slightly differently. I haven't bothered to learn the nuances but have still been incredibly satisfied with using whatever the LHBS sells in the primary.

 

[Miraculix]

I think that wine stays usually longer in the fermenter/secondary and/or is more often filtered on industrial level. Therefore flocculation does not play such a big role. We beer guys don't want to much yeast to get into the bottle.... in a barrel/tank in which the wine ages for years or at least months, this problem does not really exist as literally every yeast would settle out in this amount of time.

 

[bob1852]

I think that wine stays usually longer in the fermenter/secondary and/or is more often filtered on industrial level. Therefore flocculation does not play such a big role. We beer guys don't want to much yeast to get into the bottle.... in a barrel/tank in which the wine ages for years or at least months, this problem does not really exist as literally every yeast would settle out in this amount of time.

Or you use bentonite in the primary.

 

[NeverDie]

One TSP per gallon DRY added a couple days after vigorous fermentation has started. It can be used as a slurry post ferment too, instructions can be found on MoreWine's web site.

Which type/brand of bentonite do you use?

 

[NeverDie]

I have a new method I'm also trying (in conjunction with the weighing method) to determine when fermentation is fully done: after thoroughly degassing the mead in a PET bottle, I seal up the mead airtight. Mind you, I only do this with a mead that I already suspect may be done. Each day I give a press to each bottle to make sure it isn't getting obviously pressurized. After a few days I loosen the cap. If there's any PFSSSSTTT! sound, I know that it's not done. If there's not, it's probably done. Then repeat until the pattern is clear.

How's that for crude but effective?