Which yeast is your favorite dry yeast for making mead?

[DevilDogmeadguy]

Cheaper than "Plan B" too...

Although the mead has to be already fined before using it, else it clogs instantly.

I have the big brother to this one, it is awesome. It handles bigger batches and can take a bit more abuse because it uses bigger filter pads and has 3 filter slots. It saves a ton of my mead from being lost I can get away with racking 2 times and begin with the first stage filter, the second stage filter removes just about everything else. You can go to the 3rd filter set which filters down to 1/2 micron but I've found it isn't necessary if you did a good enough job racking.

 

[FunkyMunk]

I feel the need to comment on the Zymurgy article about using distilled or filtered water. My personal opinion is just the apposite. I believev that distilled and overly filtered water is kind of flat and lifeless and that IMO transfers to the flavor profile of your Mead. Spring water or untreated well water is my preference.

The Zymurgy article also noted the mead produced from distilled water for being "overly acidic, consistent with expectations of a poorly buffered fermentation". The distilled water batch was only included as a control. I brought this article up merely to suggest that elevated (i.e. 100 ppm or higher) levels of calcium in the starting water profile aren't necessarily required to produce a good, clear final product. (The "soft" water profile started with 25 ppm calcium.) I should also point out that the experiment wasn't limited to varying levels of calcium, and the poor results from the hard water profiles were likely influenced by the high levels of other minerals as well. The overall point of the article was to suggest that a "soft" water profile is the ideal starting point for mead. This is the only such experiment that I've come across, although it seems the consensus among mead makers is consistent with your preference for using spring water or minimally filtered water rather than distilled water.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

So, which would it be better to add? Calcium chloride or Calcium sulfate? Or both? Or something else altogether?

As a beer guy I can't really say what works for mead, no doubt this has been looked at somewhere. Chloride is more soluble, which is better if you're adding it cold-side, but personally my feeling would be to leave "as is" now that you're into the middle of an experiment, so that you're comparing like for like without adding new variables.

But in the mean time you might want to try some small experiments with one of the poor floccers and see how they respond to different levels of Ca and acidity - and what effect it has on the product.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Supertasting is not so much a generic thing as specific to individual tastes

Are you saying tasting ability isn't genetic??

I said geneRic not geneTic. Of course there's a big genetic component (which interacts in interesting ways with how you're brought up), what I was saying was that while historically researchers used supertasting of specific artificial chemicals as a proxy for some kind of generalised "supertasting response", the focus now is more on how people experience individual real-world flavours, which can include sensitivity like my friend has with butyrate and also stuff like tasting coriander as soapy. There's heaps of work being done on this kind of stuff, one of my favourites is a guy at Oxford who's done a lot on how lighting and music can affect your sense of taste.

 

[Miraculix]

As a beer guy I can't really say what works for mead, no doubt this has been looked at somewhere. Chloride is more soluble, which is better if you're adding it cold-side, but personally my feeling would be to leave "as is" now that you're into the middle of an experiment, so that you're comparing like for like without adding new variables.

But in the mean time you might want to try some small experiments with one of the poor floccers and see how they respond to different levels of Ca and acidity - and what effect it has on the product.

I would say, based on assumptions which are based on personal experiences with testing of different brewing salts in beer brewing, that I would only use calcium chloride to bring up the calcium level to about 50 to 60ppm to give the yeast a good environment to flocc out when done.

Elevated sulfate levels brings a certain taste, kind of enhancing bitterness, which I cannot imagine utilised nicely in a mead.

Chloride has more of a general flavour enhancing effect, which I could easily imagine working well in a mead or at least it wouldn't disturb anything.

But again, just trying to apply what I learned from personal tests in beer brewing to mead making, so take it with a grain of salt (literally).

 

[RPh_Guy]

I said geneRic not geneTic. Of course there's a big genetic component (which interacts in interesting ways with how you're brought up), what I was saying was that while historically researchers used supertasting of specific artificial chemicals as a proxy for some kind of generalised "supertasting response", the focus now is more on how people experience individual real-world flavours, which can include sensitivity like my friend has with butyrate and also stuff like tasting coriander as soapy. There's heaps of work being done on this kind of stuff, one of my favourites is a guy at Oxford who's done a lot on how lighting and music can affect your sense of taste.

Wow, yeah I completely misread that.
Supertasters do have a significantly higher concentration of tastebuds, so there has to be some component of generally increased taste sensitivity. I agree there's obviously still a lot of individual differences between tasters. Though, I almost 100% fit what are considered the general tasting preferences for supertasters, from what little I've read.
And it's not a good thing.

the consensus among mead makers is consistent with your preference for using spring water

From my understanding, mineral content varies hugely between different springs, so it's difficult to make general statements about its suitability.

I'm interested in water adjustments for mead and wine, but there's little to no information about this available online. I already have all the necessary ingredients.
With my next mead I'll use RO water and build a low mineral profile -- some calcium chloride, a bit of sodium chloride, and some potassium carbonate sounds about right.

...

Has anyone here used R-HST for mead?

 

[NeverDie]

I would say based on assumptions which are based on personal experiences with testing of different brewing salts in beer brewing that I would only use calcium chloride to bring up the calcium level to about 50 to 60ppm to give the yeast a good environment to flocc out when done.

Elevated sulfate levels brings a certain taste, kind of enhancing bitterness, which I cannot imagine utilised nicely in a mead.

Chloride has more of a general flavour enhancing effect, which I could easily imagine working well in a maed or at least it wouldn't disturb anything.

But again, just trying to apply what I learned from personal tests in beer brewing to mead making, so take it with a grain of salt (literally).

Assuming distilled water for the sake of a baseline, adding how many grams of calcium chloride per liter would equal, say, 55ppm (the middle of the range you gave)?

I found this unit converter that converts ppm to g/liter: https://www.unitconverters.net/concentration-solution/part-million-ppm-to-gram-liter.htm

So, according to it, 55ppm = 0.054937245 g/liter.

But that doesn't really answer the question, because it doesn't account for the weight of the chloride that's the other half of the calcium chloride. Does one just compare the molecular weight of chloride to calcium and then scale up the 0.054937245 g/liter proportionately to get the g/liter of calcium chloride?

Or is there an easier way to compute the g/liter of calcium chloride that would need to be added?

Regardless, it would seem the weight of the calcium chloride addition is going to be pretty small.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Assuming distilled water for the sake of a baseline, adding how many grams of calcium chloride per liter would equal, say, 55ppm (the middle of the range you gave)?

I found this unit converter that converts ppm to g/liter: https://www.unitconverters.net/concentration-solution/part-million-ppm-to-gram-liter.htm

So, according to it, 55ppm = 0.054937245 g/liter.

But that doesn't really answer the question, because it doesn't account for the weight of the chloride that's the other half of the calcium chloride. Does one just compare the molecular weight of chloride to calcium and then scale up the 0.054937245 g/liter proportionately to get the g/liter of calcium chloride?

Or is there an easier way to compute the g/liter of calcium chloride that would need to be added?

Regardless, it would seem the weight of the calcium chloride addition is going to be pretty small.

https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

0.7g / gal anhydrous calcium chloride yields 50ppm calcium

Calcium chloride is available in different hydration forms, and has a nasty habit of picking up water from the air, quite rapidly in fact. So it's more of an estimate when you measure it, unless you make a solution and use the specific gravity to calculate the actual amount.

FYI 1ppm = 1mg/L

 

[NeverDie]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

0.7g / gal anhydrous calcium chloride yields 50ppm calcium

Calcium chloride is available in different hydration forms, and has a nasty habit of picking up water from the air, quite rapidly in fact. So it's more of an estimate when you measure it, unless you make a solution and use the specific gravity to calculate the actual amount.

FYI 1ppm = 1mg/L

Thanks! I just placed an order for the calcium chloride. I think I'll try adding it to the DV10 batch to see if it makes a difference, because DV10 is supposed to be a good flocculator, and yet so far it doesn't seem to be. I also don't have any more of it to try in a separate experiment.

 

[Miraculix]

https://www.brewersfriend.com/water-chemistry/

0.7g / gal anhydrous calcium chloride yields 50ppm calcium

Calcium chloride is available in different hydration forms, and has a nasty habit of picking up water from the air, quite rapidly in fact. So it's more of an estimate when you measure it, unless you make a solution and use the specific gravity to calculate the actual amount.

FYI 1ppm = 1mg/L

That's exactly the calculator I also wanted to link to.

Good that you mentioned the fact that calciumchloride has this habit to attract H2O from the air, which results in less calciumchloride per weight the more water has been withdrawn from the air.

For that reason, i would just try to shoot for 65ppm which happens to be 0.25g calciumchloride per liter water. We would er on the safe side and even if no H2O would be attached to the CACL2, we would still be in a very reasonable range from a brewing water perspective. For testing purposes, it might be interesting to shoot for even more, to make possible effects a bit more visible.

For my beers, I generally try to go for about at least 100ppm which translates to 0.33g/l. I think this might also be OK for mead, but I am guessing.......

 

[NeverDie]

I think I may now have a definitive test for when fermentation has finished: put the vessel into a vacuum chamber and apply -25psi of vacuum. If it bubbles, then there's CO2 being degassed, which I think likely means yeast is still producing C02 and is therefore not finished fermenting.

Anyhow, I did this just now with my Fresco batch which had been at SG 0.995 for some days now, and it gave off a lot of gas when in the vacuum chamber, so I guess it's still not done fermenting yet. I mean, if it weren't still generating CO2 gas, it would have degassed all by itself already, just like an open bottle of soda pop does, wouldn't it have?

 

[bob1852]

Keep in mind that under normal atmospheric pressure and temperature, mead/beer/etc will have a fair amount of gas still in solution when it's done fermenting.

This is why force carbonation charts take into account fermentation temperature (to account for residual CO2).

Because of this, mechanical degassers aren't a good indicator of if fermentation is done (or not), and in my opinion degassing (above and beyond what happens naturally as the gas seeks equilibrium) isn't neccessary.

 

[NeverDie]

Keep in mind that under normal atmospheric pressure and temperature, mead/beer/etc will have a fair amount of gas still in solution when it's done fermenting.

This is why force carbonation charts take into account fermentation temperature (to account for residual CO2).

Because of this, mechanical degassers aren't a good indicator of if fermentation is done (or not), and in my opinion degassing (above and beyond what happens naturally as the gas seeks equilibrium) isn't neccessary.

But if I open a bottle of beer and leave it out, it goes flat fairly quickly. Why would not the same be true if fermentation is finished?

 

[Miraculix]

But if I open a bottle of beer and leave it out, it goes flat fairly quickly. Why would not the same be true if fermentation is finished?

It is what you percieve as flat under normal atmospheric pressure. If you would bring this "flat" beer into a vacuum, it would also start bubbling again, just like your finished mead does.

 

[bob1852]

^ this


And, while I'm not a complete expert on Henry's Law, my fear with using mechanical degassing to eliminate residual CO2 is that once the vacuum is released, the gases that will make their way back into the mead will be air....i.e., ~21% oxygen....which isn't good for post fermentation beer/mead....

 

[Miraculix]

I think this might be true!

Oh, I must create a new thread regarding this topic.... one moment... had an idea.....

 

[RPh_Guy]

Is consecutive gravity readings too easy?

Or even just appropriate time and temperature?

 

[NeverDie]

It is what you percieve as flat under normal atmospheric pressure. If you would bring this "flat" beer into a vacuum, it would also start bubbling again, just like your finished mead does.

I see your point, but I just now took a 1 gallon jar of tap water and put it under a -25psi vacuum, and there was very little bubbling. At -20psi, there was no bubbling that I could see. So, maybe the magic number is -20psi, not -25psi. But either way, there was massive bubbling with the Fresno must at both those vacuum levels.

I'm a little more concerned though about the point raised by AZ_IPA, about oxygen finding its way back into the must if I were to put it under too strong a vacuum. So, maybe a lesser amount of vacuum would be better as the test condition. Or, maybe it's just a bad idea, because of the oxidation risk. Fortunately, oxidation isn't as big a deal with mead as it is with wine or beer (or so I've read), but I'm not sure how much might be too much.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Well, your mead has about 0.7+ volumes of CO2, and tap water has around zero.

 

[NeverDie]

I think this might be true!

Oh, I must create a new thread regarding this topic.... one moment... had an idea.....

OK, you got me curioius. What might be true?

Oh, I think I see: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/continuous-degassing-using-rough-materials.664209/

 

[FunkyMunk]

Thanks! I just placed an order for the calcium chloride. I think I'll try adding it to the DV10 batch to see if it makes a difference, because DV10 is supposed to be a good flocculator, and yet so far it doesn't seem to be. I also don't have any more of it to try in a separate experiment.

When did you start the DV10 batch? Are you sure it's done fermenting? Have you racked it? If it's been less than a month, might I suggest being a little more patient. Be aware that calcium chloride will likely affect the taste, which matters if you're interested in a direct comparison among the different yeasts. Are you taking the calcium content of the honey (and nutrients if you added any) into account when trying to determine how much calcium is available to help your yeast flocculate? Honestly not trying to be a pain... just don't want to see your experiment derailed.

 

[NeverDie]

When did you start the DV10 batch? Are you sure it's done fermenting? Have you racked it? If it's been less than a month, might I suggest being a little more patient. Be aware that calcium chloride will likely affect the taste, which matters if you're interested in a direct comparison among the different yeasts. Are you taking the calcium content of the honey (and nutrients if you added any) into account when trying to determine how much calcium is available to help your yeast flocculate? Honestly not trying to be a pain... just don't want to see your experiment derailed.

OK, I'll wait longer.

Not sure how much available calcium is in honey or the nutrients. Fermaid K has calcium pantothenate in it, but aside from that I know nothing more about it. As to Fermaid O, I don't know what, if any, calcium is in it that might be available to the yeast.

According to this: http://www.dietandfitnesstoday.com/calcium-in-honey.php
there are 6mg of calcium per 100g of honey

 

[NeverDie]

At least with mason jars, there does exist a way to vacuum test without the risk of introducing oxygen, and that would be with one way valve lids, such as these:
https://www.amazon.com/4-Pack-Ferme...ar+vacuum+lid&qid=1553726954&s=gateway&sr=8-4

I haven't looked into it yet, but I do believe there may exist similar, more general purpose, one way valves that can be plugged into bungs for larger fermentation vessels. I seem to recollect seeing them for sale online somewhere, but I don't recall where. I suppose a drytrap like this might work, even though it's a bit pricey: https://www.homebrewohio.com/drytrap-airlock-for-better-bottle/

These, on the other hand, might work (since they're spring loaded check valves) at a very cheap price: https://www.ebay.com/itm/5-x-Small-...-by-Lees-Aquarium-Product-12405-/323334469656

Alternatively, one could simply refill the vacuum chamber not with air, but with CO2, all the way to standard atmospheric pressure when releasing the vacuum. I don't own a CO2 tank (yet), but if I did, I don't think it would be too hard to add an extra barbed inlet, with ball valve control, to the vacuum chamber for pumping the CO2 in there from a tank. This would have the advantage of removing any potential implosion risk that might exist from keeping a fermentation vessel under vacuum. For instance, this would allow testing of even flimsy plastic fermentatioin vessels like conversions of 1 gallon PETE plastic spring water bottles over to fermentation vessels (which is what I'm using for this yeast roundup experiment).

 

[NeverDie]

When did you start the DV10 batch?

March 6. So, I suppose you're right: it may need more time, even though some of the other batches started after that have cleared already. For instance, EC-1118 started on March 12 and is already clear.

 

[NeverDie]

Is consecutive gravity readings too easy?

Just exploring my options.

What's the gold standard for how long SG needs to remain unchanging before you can confidently call the fermentation fully completed?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Just exploring my options.

What's the gold standard for how long SG needs to remain unchanging before you can confidently call the fermentation fully completed?

For quick fermentations (like what you're doing), same reading 1-3 days apart (at a reasonable number). For slow fermentations, a week or more.

I like using one-way airlocks. The commercial silicone breathable airlocks let in too much oxygen so now I make my own, and they're less expensive.

 

[FunkyMunk]

March 6. So, I suppose you're right: it may need more time, even though some of the other batches started after that have cleared already. For instance, EC-1118 started on March 12 and is already clear.

Some yeasts ferment faster than others. The time to reach terminal gravity might actually be a good metric to keep track of in your experiment.

 

[NeverDie]

The time to reach terminal gravity might actually be a good metric to keep track of in your experiment.

Good suggestion! Thank you. Time to start tracking that before it's too late. Fortunately, I did note the start times for each of them. Now I just need to be confident of the stop time.

 

[NeverDie]

I like using one-way airlocks. The commercial silicone breathable airlocks let in too much oxygen so now I make my own, and they're less expensive.

Any photos of how you're making them?

 

[Maylar]

The Fresco that's in the traditional mead though appears to be doing super well and is on a complete tear. Already at SG 1.001, and falling.

Confirmation that temperature matters - my Fresco cyser reads 1.007 today, from 1.045 a week ago. It's been 59 - 60 degrees in the brew room.