Which Fruit in Saison?

[Gravity]

I have a saison thats just about ready to rack - before i bottle i'd like to make a split batch and add fruit to one. In browsing the forums there are a couple of interesting threads:

Spice/Fruit Ideas for Saison
Using this saison recipe for a fruit saison?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/hibiscus-passion-fruit-saison-idea.584326/

does anyone have a favorite fruit to add to a saison? I normally don't add fruit to my saisons, so i'm curious what others have done and what worked/not worked. From the threads, looks like apricot ( something i would have never thought of) seems to be common, along with berries.

any tips/suggestions would be great


This is my recipe for reference:

32 lbs 5.9 oz Pilsner (Weyermann)
1 lbs 7.5 oz Vienna Malt (Weyermann)
1 lbs 7.5 oz Wheat Malt, Pale (Weyermann)
1 lbs 4.9 oz Caramunich II (Weyermann)
10.4 oz Munich I (Weyermann)
4.42 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %]
2.21 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] -
1 pkg Belle Saison (Lallemand/Danstar #-) - 4L Starter

 

[Franz]

I've successfully used raspberries in the past. Pulp them, trow them in boiling water for a few minutes and add them preferably in a fine mesh hop spider (or hop bag). If you have a juicer you can just boil the extract and dump it in the fermenter, although I personally think the first method gives the best flavour.

 

[Franz]

Also a matter of personal taste, I don't like beers with multiple fruit additions. If you have never used fruit I suggest you stick to only one at a time. (Or don't, there is no such thing as the Beer Police.)

 

[Gravity]

Also a matter of personal taste, I don't like beers with multiple fruit additions. If you have never used fruit I suggest you stick to only one at a time. (Or don't, there is no such thing as the Beer Police.)

Thanks - not a huge fan of multiple fruit additions either. I add fruit to my brews all the time, namely blondes, pale ales, IPAs...etc....just never a saison. (not even sure why, i think i just like them as is)

Rasperrries sound like they would turn out nice, I saw frozen raspberries on sales - might give that a go

 

[Gravity]

Went down to the store and got a kilo of raspberries, blueberries and lychee as they were on sale.
I'm defrosting the raspberries and will most likely add it to one of the batches. Although i keep reading about how blueberries are great in saisons

I bought whole frozen fruit, however i did see some 2kg puree - random thought, is 2kg whole frozen the same as 2kg frozen puree? in other words, does the puree go through a different process or is it essentially the whole fruit mashed up? and would one be better for beer addition?

 

[Franz]

I'd say so, especially for berries (not that much to discard before processing). I make small batches (2.5 -3 gal) so I usually buy fresh fruit becuse it's easier to find in small quantities, so not sure about the taste part.
Now I want to brew a lychee witbier!

 

[stealthfixr]

Just my $0.02, but Saison is busy enough without fruit added, if it was fermented at the right temp range. If I were to add fruit, I'd go for something background complimentary, since yeast contributions will take center stage. Mango? Passion Fruit? Peach?

 

[Franz]

Saison is busy enough without fruit added, if it was fermented at the right temp range.

True enough. I usually add some fruit in belgian ales because most of the people I share my beer with do not like a strong yeast character. It's a bit of a common ground.

 

[LuukGx]

I've done a very well received Raspberry saison (4 pounds of raspberry puree per 5 gallons) and black cherries as well!

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I have used blackberries with good results.

I also have used hibiscus blooms, not a fruit, but it provides a fruity taste. I was asked to brew it at a brewery where I used to live.

 

[LuukGx]

Hibiscus would give it a nice acidity too, and it grows freely here, great idea!

 

[LuukGx]

May I ask how much hibiscus you used and at what step of the process? I'd think dry hop-ish?

 

[Gravity]

Now I want to brew a lychee witbier!

Thats my next brew, either a lychee wit, or maybe blonde

 

[Gravity]

Just my $0.02, but Saison is busy enough without fruit added, if it was fermented at the right temp range. If I were to add fruit, I'd go for something background complimentary, since yeast contributions will take center stage. Mango? Passion Fruit? Peach?

I agree, when i was tasting samples to decide on what fruit to use, i was keeping that in mind (letting the yeast shine). I decided on raspberries but dialed back - so went with 1kg for 20L

felt like it was a good balance - i'll see in a couple weeks

 

[Gravity]

I've done a very well received Raspberry saison (4 pounds of raspberry puree per 5 gallons) and black cherries as well!

you mind posting the recipe? Mine is at the top

I went with 1kg (2.2 pounds) of frozen whole raspberries that i crushed before adding for my 20L (5g).
You did black cherries/raspberries together? Mine was a single fruit addition

 

[Gravity]

I have used blackberries with good results.

I also have used hibiscus blooms, not a fruit, but it provides a fruity taste. I was asked to brew it at a brewery where I used to live.

Thats cool - mind sharing the recipe?

I normally do hibiscus at whirlpool and never as a dry hop addition (post boil). Hibiscus to me adds a really good cranberry flavor that i love in small quantities; the reddish color is a bonus

 

[Gravity]

May I ask how much hibiscus you used and at what step of the process? I'd think dry hop-ish?

I normally do hibiscus at whirlpool and never as a dry hop addition (post boil). Hibiscus to me adds a really good cranberry flavor that i love in small quantities; the reddish color is a bonus

personally, I add at flameout or whirlpool

 

[Dr_Jeff]

I get the hibiscus as dried blooms from a Hispanic grocery store.
Typically, I take a pan and add two or three quarts of water and bring it to a boil and toss in ~8 ounces of dried bloom, turn off the heat after a minute or so and let it steep until it cools and make a "tea" from it. I will add this to a keg prior to packaging, and rack the beer on top of it. My saisons are usually of the super variety ~9% or so, sometimes higher, now when the beer is added to the half gallon or so of "tea", it doesn't get watered down that much and becomes a beautiful crimson color with a pinkish head.

Cheers.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

BTW - I feel that your recipe is "too busy" with all of the various malts.
A saison is an old beer style that was originally a farmhouse beer from France. Designed by poor people for poor people. Simple, cheap and easy, use French malt, possibly a bit of wheat or malted wheat and European hops, something mild like Tettnanger or Sazz.

Think about, what would have been available to the people of the region at the time and you will have a better beer.

I deviate a bit and add in a bit of ground orange peel and coriander at 5 minutes before flame out. I have several recipes that I have fine tuned over the years, and don't make any changes to it, and my Saison is one of them.

Don't be afraid to add in table sugar to up the gravity and to help dry it out.

 

[Gravity]

BTW - I feel that your recipe is "too busy" with all of the various malts.
A saison is an old beer style that was originally a farmhouse beer from France. Designed by poor people for poor people. Simple, cheap and easy, use French malt, possibly a bit of wheat or malted wheat and European hops, something mild like Tettnanger or Sazz.

Think about, what would have been available to the people of the region at the time and you will have a better beer.

I deviate a bit and add in a bit of ground orange peel and coriander at 5 minutes before flame out. I have several recipes that I have fine tuned over the years, and don't make any changes to it, and my Saison is one of them.

Don't be afraid to add in table sugar to up the gravity and to help dry it out.

Thanks for that - I agree, i was aiming for something slightly different after reading a "beer and brewing article", - i don't mind trying something different from my mainstays recipes. I think we would all agree that brewing is like cooking, and when a chef/brewer shares a recipe that sounds good might as well give it a go. Experimentation is opart of the process after all.

Normally i brew this (below) - which i really like and is my go to Saison recipe. I have another where i add about 500g of belgian candy sugar and a touch of rye, thats also one of my favorites.

5 lbs Pils
4 lbs Vienna malt
1 lb Wheat malt
1.75 oz East Kent Goldings @ 60
0.75 oz Styrian Goldings @ 15

Feel free to share one of yours

 

[CanaHomebrew]

I've done a couple different fruited saisons. My first one was a strawberry rhubarb saison, and I also made a peach saison. I make 3 gallon batches of fruited beers because they can be hit or miss. I usually make them with around 2-3 lbs of fresh fruit. That wasn't quite enough for peach though, since it is such a mild flavor, so I'd recommend more if you want a heavy fruit presence

 

[Dr_Jeff]

If you like your recipe, by all means stick with it.

Consider replacing the Vienna with Pilsner.

The Belgian sugar just adds to cost, table sugar will work just as well.

Your latest recipe appears to be for a five gallon batch, consider adding an ounce of Coriander and an ounce to an ounce and a half of orange peel to the boil with five minutes left.

I buy the cuties/mandarin oranges, eat the orange and dry the peels. Once they are completely dry, like a corn flake or potato chip, I package them up with a vacuum sealer and save them for brewing. The peel is thin and has a minimal amount of pith (the bad stuff).

I work at the far end of the Aleutian Islands, all of my recipes are back at home.
I can provide advice from memory, but the specifics are there.

Was the original recipe for a 20 gallon batch?

I had a rye Saison in Tracy California that had ~20% rye and used Ella hops, it was one tasty beer.
I have brewed a similar recipe and it turned out good as well.

I have also brewed a Black Saison, utilizing Black Prinz, it turned out good, but I kinda thought it was more of a novelty.
I haven't used the Belle Saison yeast, so I can't provide any feedback on it.
My "goto" yeast is Wyeast 3711 for a Saison and I will start it out cool, 63-66 or so and keep it there for a day or two, then let it go where it wants to, upper 80's or even 90. I have even intentionally left a keg of beer in the hot garage in Alabama and set it up on the workbench, where the heat could really get to it and left it there for 2-3 days, to insure that the yeast could "chew through" every thing they can with good results.

I also have a solara ten gallon oak barrel with a super Saison and a bunch of bugs that produces an awesome beer, that I will periodically pull out five gallons and then top it off with fresh beer.

When in doubt, refer to the BJCP style guide to develop recipes.

How did your most recent version turn out?
I realize that you likely just recently packaged it, but I'm certain that you had a few samples during the process.

 

[Brewmasher]

My philosophy on spice and fruit additions is that they should add to, to “bring out” the natural flavors of the fermentation, rather than over power the beer, turning it into a “beer cooler” soda. If I can single out a fruit or spice, it is too much.

I had a blueberry Belgian Blonde at a brewpub that was quite nice. You didn’t really tasted blueberries, rather it just brought out the fruitiness of the beer.

 

[LuukGx]

Thats cool - mind sharing the recipe?

Living in the Caribbean, hard hitting beers aren't really popular, so I try to make mine more sessionable. I brew for a restaurant.

Raspberry Saison (scaled for 5 gal)
3.5 lb Pilsner Malt
1 lb Vienna
1 lb White Wheat
1 lb Demerara
1/4 lb Acidulated

Bitter to 20 IBU with Magnum
Dry hop with Mandarina (plays well with the raspberry and the yeast)
Ferment warm with BE134

I add 1 lb raspberry puree (I used Boiron) at flameout, 3 lb in secondary.

 

[Gravity]

I've done a couple different fruited saisons. My first one was a strawberry rhubarb saison, and I also made a peach saison. I make 3 gallon batches of fruited beers because they can be hit or miss. I usually make them with around 2-3 lbs of fresh fruit. That wasn't quite enough for peach though, since it is such a mild flavor, so I'd recommend more if you want a heavy fruit presence

I keep reading that Rhubarb, peach, and apricots in a saison are a thing - which are fruits i would have not thought about using , but i'm assuming its for a reason

the rhubarb and apricot sounds like something i might try down the line

 

[Reneauj62]

Also a matter of personal taste, I don't like beers with multiple fruit additions. If you have never used fruit I suggest you stick to only one at a time. (Or don't, there is no such thing as the Beer Police.)

Actually in Oregon, There are beer police.... lol its against the law to make beer with excessive Hops (when considered medicinal)... Yet, marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroine, and all other hard drugs are just fine.....

 

[LuukGx]

What's the threshold for excessive hops?

 

[Reneauj62]

What's the threshold for excessive hops?

For the full law read Oregon Legislature Restricts Hop Usage — New School Beer + Cider

But, for starters:

• Hops added to the wort within 15 minutes of the end of the boil shall not exceed two (2) pounds of leaf hops, or the equivalent measure of pellet or processed hop product per barrel
• Hops added to the wort after applied heat, before wort reaches 185 degrees Fahrenheit shall not exceed one (1) pound of leaf hops, or the equivalent measure of pellet or processed hop product per barrel
• Hops added to the wort at any temperature below 185 degrees Fahrenheit shall not exceed one-half (.5) pound of leaf hops, or the equivalent measure of pellet or processed hop product per barrel, and shall not contact wort or beer for more than three days.”

 

[Reneauj62]

Has anyone ever brewed with Persimmons as the fruit in a Saison or any other type like a Hefeweizen or Belgian wit?

 

[Gravity]

Has anyone ever brewed with Persimmons as the fruit in a Saison or any other type like a Hefeweizen or Belgian wit?

Ohhhh...glad you asked this question...i saw them on sale but didn't buy them, instead I opted for lychee which was also on sale

 

[Reneauj62]

Ohhhh...glad you asked this question...i saw them on sale but didn't buy them, instead I opted for lychee which was also on sale

My cousin has two Persimmon trees and they are overwhelmingly inundated with them. I got about 25 pounds. I was thinking that I would cut into small pieces and place half in the boil and then the other half with two weeks to go in the fermenter.... the fermentation addition would have to be boiled prior to addition. Thoughts?

 

[Gravity]

Consider replacing the Vienna with Pilsner.

Sure, i can see how that would work, i've done recipes that are Pils heavy - for both recipes?

The Belgian sugar just adds to cost, table sugar will work just as well.

I prefer the beglain candy by a country mile, especially when doing things like a dubbel/triple. There is a different flavor profile that the Belgian candi offers (light or dark) in my opinion. [/QUOTE]

Your latest recipe appears to be for a five gallon batch, consider adding an ounce of Coriander and an ounce to an ounce and a half of orange peel to the boil with five minutes left.

Good advice - I have two versions of that recipe where i added orange zest, lime zest, coriander at FO. [/QUOTE]

I work at the far end of the Aleutian Islands, all of my recipes are back at home.

Must be cool

Was the original recipe for a 20 gallon batch?

It was for 70 liters (18g)

I had a rye Saison in Tracy California that had ~20% rye and used Ella hops, it was one tasty beer.

i did one with 24% rye and a little biscuit - i brewed this recipe for a long time

Looks like this: -
Rice Hulls - 2.7 %
CHÃTEAU PALE ALE - 67.4 %
CHÃTEAU RYE - 24.3 %
CHÃTEAU BISCUIT - 2.7 %
Candi Sugar, Clear - 3.0 %
Styrian Goldings - Boil 60.0 min
East Kent Goldings - 15min
4 L Belle Saison starter
[/QUOTE]

I haven't used the Belle Saison yeast, so I can't provide any feedback on it.

Its never failed me, it can be very forgiving. I always let it go where it wants 26C + (80F +) [/QUOTE]

I also have a solara ten gallon oak barrel with a super Saison and a bunch of bugs that produces an awesome beer, that I will periodically pull out five gallons and then top it off with fresh beer.

this sounds amazing [/QUOTE]

How did your most recent version turn out?
I realize that you likely just recently packaged it, but I'm certain that you had a few samples during the process.

Sure did, reached 100% attenuation, and will bottles tomorow as it needed a couple more days to rest. It tasted great,

some tasting notes: good classic taste, peppery, clove, flowers, earthy, citrus, spoiling bananas, good yeast character - really shines, needs couple more days to rest. Honey colored, good mouth feel, a bit thin but lingers and wraps around the tongue

Thanks for the input

 

[Gravity]

My cousin has two Persimmon trees and they are overwhelmingly inundated with them. I got about 25 pounds. I was thinking that I would cut into small pieces and place half in the boil and then the other half with two weeks to go in the fermenter.... the fermentation addition would have to be boiled prior to addition. Thoughts?

Honestly, not knowing how persimmons would be in a beer, i would do two things: add a little zest at FO, and depending on your batch size, I would add about 1-2Kg per 20liters (2 pounds- 4 pounds for 5g) I would add it when fermentation reaches 1.020. definitely gently boil the fruit before adding it the fermentor. i would go easy with an unknown fruit in beer at first as you may not know how it effects the beer flavor, aroma, etc. You can always do a 20L (5g) pilot batch. and let that be your baseline to either add/drop additions - if you brew this, i would be keen to know how it turns out

 

[Franz]

Actually in Oregon, There are beer police.... lol its against the law to make beer with excessive Hops (when considered medicinal)... Yet, marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroine, and all other hard drugs are just fine.....

That applies to homebrewers too? What a strange world we live in...

 

[duffy5018]

Last year, after Thanksgiving, I bought 3 lbs of cranberries and made a cranberry saison using nelson sauvin hops, which seemed to be a hit. Boiled them in about a half gallon of RO water for about 10min, threw them in to the fermentor. Only downside was the amount of loss at the bottom of the fermentor (wound up with about 3.5 gallons of beer in a typical 5.25 gallon batch).

The tartness of the cranberries worked well with the funkiness of WY3724 and the nelson hops.

 

[Reneauj62]

That applies to homebrewers too? What a strange world we live in...

I am not so sure that it would be enforceable on homebrewers. Oregon is trying to keep up with California as far as Crazy laws, rules, and regulations.

 

[Gravity]

Last year, after Thanksgiving, I bought 3 lbs of cranberries and made a cranberry saison using nelson sauvin hops, which seemed to be a hit. Boiled them in about a half gallon of RO water for about 10min, threw them in to the fermentor. Only downside was the amount of loss at the bottom of the fermentor (wound up with about 3.5 gallons of beer in a typical 5.25 gallon batch).

The tartness of the cranberries worked well with the funkiness of WY3724 and the nelson hops.

In the frozen section they had cranberries next to the lychee I bought and thought long and hard about the cranberries, but didn't buy it - as soon as they go on sale, i'll buy a couple kgs

 

[Jayjay1976]

I use canned peaches, but only when they're in saison. Get it? Haha.

Something about the canning process seems to "fix" the flavor, as in, it doesn't ferment out completely.

Blend to a puree and dump into the fermenter. Goes real nice with some Huell melon hops.

Next time I'm going to try canned fruit cocktail, see what that brings. Maybe the pear and pineapple will dance with the hops.

 

[Gravity]

I use canned peaches, but only when they're in saison. Get it? Haha.

Henry joke for sure

Next time I'm going to try canned fruit cocktail, see what that brings. Maybe the pear and pineapple will dance with the hops.

i've tried this before...bunch of different fruits....didn't work out as well as i had hoped

 

[homebrudoc]

I frequently add pear juice to secondary in my saisons (and I make a LOT of saison). Eight to 16 oz in secondary (5 gallons). If you can taste the fruit, you've used too much. Pear is easy and very effective 'cause it's very subtle. When it's not there, the beer is different but nobody can say what's missing. It's a fantastic complement to the saison flavors and doesn't bring the acidity of berries.
homebrudoc