Which fermentation schedule for an IIPA racked to secondary?

[EyePeeA]

Choose one and explain why it's better. Using Conan Yeast...

I know people will say a secondary rack is not necessary, but I'm doing it for this big beer, which has a 7 oz dryhop and a yeast starter w/2 vials.

Fermentation Schedule 1:

-64 F for 7 days.
-Let rise to 68-70 F and add a 4-5 day dry hop in primary.
-Rack to secondary & cold condition for 10 days in the refrigerator.
-Bottle prime & drink 10-14 days later.

Fermentation Schedule 2:

-64 F for 7 days.
-Cold condition for 10 days in the refrigerator.
-Rack to secondary, let rise to 68-70 F, add 4-5 day dry hop
-Bottle prime & drink 10-14 days later.

 

[m00ps]

NO NO NO NO NO
do not secondary an IPA. Dry hop in primary -> Bottle
cold crash it if you must, but for gods sake, ditch the secondary

 

[whovous]

I think Schedule 1 gives your yeast a better chance to finish its job and will also produce a more clear beer, if that matters to you.

I've been known to "unnecessarily" rack to secondary as well, so I definitely won't ding you on that.

The one thing I would do differently would be to bottle prime for 21 rather than 10-14 days. It can be awful hard to wait, but the beer is not likely to hit the fully carbed sweet spot in less time.

 

[Doctor_M]

NO NO NO NO NO
do not secondary an IPA. Dry hop in primary -> Bottle
cold crash it if you must, but for gods sake, ditch the secondary

I would like this post more than once if I could.

 

[EyePeeA]

cold crash it if you must, but for gods sake, ditch the secondary

Would you cold crash before or after the dry hop?

 

[Gavin C]

Choose one and explain why it's better. Using Conan Yeast...

I know people will say a secondary rack is not necessary, but I'm doing it for this big beer, which has a 7 oz dryhop and a yeast starter w/2 yeast vials.

Fermentation Schedule 1:

-63-64 F for 7 days.
-Let rise to 68-70 F and add a 4-5 day dry hop in primary.
-Rack to secondary & cold condition for 10 days in the refrigerator.
-Bottle prime & drink 10-14 days later.

Fermentation Schedule 2:

-63-64 F for 7 days.
-Cold condition for 10 days in the refrigerator.
-Rack to secondary, let rise to 68-70 F, add 4-5 day dry hop
-Bottle prime & drink 10-14 days later.

None of the above.

I like neither choice for multiple reasons.

 

[EyePeeA]

None of the above.

I like neither choice for multiple reasons.

It's awesome that you elaborated on those multiple reasons. :smack:

 

[carvetop]

If you're not dead-set on racking to secondary, I would strongly advise against it. I understand that it's a big beer with a LOT of trub in the primary but I would recommend simply cold crashing after the dry hop and packaging the beer however you'd like. As I'm sure you're aware, these big hoppy beers are VERY prone to oxidation so unnecessary handling should be avoided.
FWIW, I do this for all of my hoppy beers (last one had 6oz of dry hops added to primary) with very good results.

 

[Gavin C]

It's awesome that you elaborated on those multiple reasons. :smack:

OK.

• Arbitrary fermentation time-frames
• Arbitrary time-points to ramp temperature
• Arbitrary bottle conditioning times
• Wasteful yeast starter design
• Needless/deleterious secondary usage

All areas to explore. I figured you've got a plan in place and are wanting to decide between these two options. I'm not going to try to tear apart your whole brew-plan. Just wanted to suggest there are other options. But as you asked, see above.

 

[EyePeeA]

OK.

• Arbitrary fermentation time-frames
• Arbitrary time-points to ramp temperature
• Arbitrary bottle conditioning times
• Wasteful yeast starter design
• Needless/deleterious secondary usage

All areas to explore. I figured you've got a plan in place and are wanting to decide between these two options. I'm not going to try to tear apart your whole brew-plan. Just wanted to suggest there are other options. But as you asked, see above.

1. Fermentation is 7 days, which is plenty. That isn't arbitrary. Arbitrary would be 7-32 days fermentation.
2. After fermentation, the temp is ramped up for the dry hop, which is usually recommended in the high 60s/low 70s for IPAs.
3. 2 weeks is enough time to bottle condition. How is that arbitrary? Isn't that standard for this type of beer?
4. How is the yeast starter design wasteful? Mr. Malty says I need 1.15 Liters with 2 vials and intermittent shaking. I have a 2000ml beaker.
5. I anticipated people would be against the secondary.

 

[Psylocide]

10 day cold crash seems excessive as well.

Just an added FWIW... I recently did a IIPA that had an OG of 1.087 and an FG of 1.010 (~10.1%).

I fermented with 2 packs of rehydrated notty at ~64° for 7 days, ramped up to 68° for the last 7 while I dry-hopped in primary.

Kegged it on day 15.

 

[Gavin C]

1. Fermentation is 7 days, which is plenty. That isn't arbitrary. Arbitrary would be 7-32 days fermentation.
2. After fermentation, the temp is ramped up for the dry hop, which is usually recommended in the high 60s/low 70s for IPAs.
3. 2 weeks is enough time to bottle condition. How is that arbitrary? Isn't that standard for this type of beer?
4. How is the yeast starter design wasteful? Mr. Malty says I need 1.15 Liters with 2 vials and intermittent shaking. I have a 2000ml beaker.
5. I anticipated people would be against the secondary.

Sounds like we have differing understanding of the word arbitrary.

Anyway, as I said, lots to explore there.

Best of luck with your brew.

 

[EyePeeA]

Sounds like we have differing understanding of the word arbitrary.

Anyway, as I said, lots to explore there.

Best of luck with your brew.

Well, I hoped you would explain yourself. My reasoning's were adequate enough to prove they were not arbitrary. Of course, I know you must take gravity readings and that fermentation may not take exactly 7 days (if that is what you meant by arbitrary).

 

[hanuswalrus]

If you want the hops to be as present as they possibly can be, do not rack it to a secondary. Any introduction of oxygen to the beer once fermentation has finished can only damage your final beer's hop character.

 

[EyePeeA]

Okay, I will ditch the secondary.

 

[whovous]

1. Fermentation is 7 days, which is plenty. That isn't arbitrary. Arbitrary would be 7-32 days fermentation.
2. After fermentation, the temp is ramped up for the dry hop, which is usually recommended in the high 60s/low 70s for IPAs.
3. 2 weeks is enough time to bottle condition. How is that arbitrary? Isn't that standard for this type of beer?
4. How is the yeast starter design wasteful? Mr. Malty says I need 1.15 Liters with 2 vials and intermittent shaking. I have a 2000ml beaker.
5. I anticipated people would be against the secondary.

You did not ask me, and I lack Gavin C's mad skills, but I'd like to take a shot at some of these.

1. Seven days is plenty, except when it isn't. Gravity measurements can tell you if you are fully fermented or not.
3. No, it's not. Your beer may be drinkable at two weeks, but it will be fully carbed and better tasting at three weeks. I recognize the possible trade-offs between being fully carbed and having some of the AAs start to fade on you, but the freshness dates on Stone's Enjoy By series, as well as on BrewDog's Born to Die IPAs all suggest you are not losing things just two weeks into bottling.
5. I'm not opposed to secondary if getting clearer beer is the goal, but I suspect the transfer is going to cost you a little of that hop freshness. Ahh, when I went to preview this post, I see you've ditched the secondary.

 

[tim_c7]

Hello EyePeeA,

I think it depends on what you want from your big IIPA. Check you the info on the White Labs page. http://www.theyeastbay.com/brewers-yeast-products/vermont-ale

The Vermont Ale strain (Which I am assuming is your Conan Yeast) attenuates more if the temperature is raised at the end of fermentation. Which is more like your option one. I am guessing cold condition, racking, and dry hopping first would limit the attenuation, even if you intend to let the beer temperature rise again.

As for cold conditioning I would recommend doing it after dry hopping. The purpose of cold conditioning is to clear the beer as best as you can prior to bottling. Doing the cold conditioning last should result in a clearer result. Again, more like option one.

I hope your beer turns out great!