Which Counterflow Chiller?

[kurds_2408]

Hi all. I’ve been looking to upgrade from my DIY counter flow to something better. I was about to pull the trigger on an Exchillerator after deciding that’s what I want. But I was in my LHBS yesterday and he had what seemed to be a used all copper chiller. It was tagged at $200 but he told me he’d cut me a deal since it been there awhile. I don’t know what brand these are under or who makes them but know they a like $300ish new. I’ve seen a lot of them in photos on here. Picture below. I’m assuming the Exchillarator is better since they are both copper on the inside where it counts, but the Ex has the inner band to make the water twirl. But it s $240-$290 depending on the config. Just curious if anyone has used both? Or even anyone who has used the copper one and can say how good it is? Seems like there are no reviews of this no name chiller that shows up in a lot of photos. Thanks.

 

[AZ Maverick]

I have the Exchilerator, I have no experience with the one you have shown - but I did find out who makes it and what the specs are.

The Exchilerator is 25′ of 3/8 OD x 1/4 ID copper with the spiral wrap around the copper tube.

Here is the data on the one you have shown:

 

[IslandLizard]

One thing to keep in mind, do not store these chillers in an area that can ever freeze up!

 

[rkhanso]

One thing to keep in mind, do not store these chillers in an area that can ever freeze up!

If you have questions why this advice should be observed, just ask me.

 

[Broken Crow]

Points to consider: While it improves heat exchange a bit, convolution doesn't really make that huge a difference. A 5/8" inner will allow faster throughput, but at only 12' it will still take longer for heat-exchange than 25' of 3/8"...also; The larger diameter throughput is marginally less efficient than the double 3/8" 'Brutus Pro' version: https://www.exchilerator.com/product/brutus-pro-counterflow-wort-chiller/ or simply doubling up a pair of single core CFCs.
If single-pass chilling something you need, you'll be more likely to get it from an exchillerator, but then again, you need a low-temp chilling water source...For example; My own CFC is about 33' of 3/8" and my ground-water temp is 58° so I get single pass drop from boiling to pitch temp output BUT: It chokes my throughput and I don't get a very good whirlpool, especially on larger batches (12G). Not saying this is the way to go for you, but I'm currently building a dual 3/8" CFC to eliminate my bottleneck. Plate Chillers are more efficient, as long as you get a good sized one, but keeping out kettle trub and cleaning has scared me off from them...That said they have many satisfied users, I'm just not one of them.
You mention it is used; make sure and test it for leaks before you buy it..as mentioned above there are many posts on this site about ice-damage to these.
Not offering advice here, just hoping to provide food-for-thought. Let us know what and why you choose.

 

[kurds_2408]

I have the Exchilerator, I have no experience with the one you have shown - but I did find out who makes it and what the specs are.

The Exchilerator is 25′ of 3/8 OD x 1/4 ID copper with the spiral wrap around the copper tube.

Here is the data on the one you have shown:
View attachment 866178

Oh cool. Thanks for finding that.

 

[kurds_2408]

Points to consider: While it improves heat exchange a bit, convolution doesn't really make that huge a difference. A 5/8" inner will allow faster throughput, but at only 12' it will still take longer for heat-exchange than 25' of 3/8"...also; The larger diameter throughput is marginally less efficient than the double 3/8" 'Brutus Pro' version: https://www.exchilerator.com/product/brutus-pro-counterflow-wort-chiller/ or simply doubling up a pair of single core CFCs.
If single-pass chilling something you need, you'll be more likely to get it from an exchillerator, but then again, you need a low-temp chilling water source...For example; My own CFC is about 33' of 3/8" and my ground-water temp is 58° so I get single pass drop from boiling to pitch temp output BUT: It chokes my throughput and I don't get a very good whirlpool, especially on larger batches (12G). Not saying this is the way to go for you, but I'm currently building a dual 3/8" CFC to eliminate my bottleneck. Plate Chillers are more efficient, as long as you get a good sized one, but keeping out kettle trub and cleaning has scared me off from them...That said they have many satisfied users, I'm just not one of them.
You mention it is used; make sure and test it for leaks before you buy it..as mentioned above there are many posts on this site about ice-damage to these.
Not offering advice here, just hoping to provide food-for-thought. Let us know what and why you choose.

Thanks. That some very helpful advice. The Brutus may be too spendy for me. I’m in Colorado and my ground water stays very cold. Not for sure off the top of my head though. I wouldn’t say I need single pass but wouldn’t mind it. Unfortunately I am currently in the middle of an eBIAB build and not sure exactly if I’ll be always whirlpooling or just using hop spider. I currently use a spider on my propane setup and let everything else go into the fermenter. I’m am putting in a whirlpool port though for mash and IPAs that require whirlpool/hopstand. So I have the option. Are you saying Exchilerator for faster chilling but the Wort Chiller for better whirlpool?

 

[Broken Crow]

Thanks. That some very helpful advice. The Brutus may be too spendy for me. I’m in Colorado and my ground water stays very cold. Not for sure off the top of my head though. I wouldn’t say I need single pass but wouldn’t mind it. Unfortunately I am currently in the middle of an eBIAB build and not sure exactly if I’ll be always whirlpooling or just using hop spider. I currently use a spider on my propane setup and let everything else go into the fermenter. I’m am putting in a whirlpool port though for mash and IPAs that require whirlpool/hopstand. So I have the option. Are you saying Exchilerator for faster chilling but the Wort Chiller for better whirlpool?

Just saying: If whirlpooling is important then don't restrict your flow with a single 3/8" core..if it is important, you'll want 1/2" throughput or double 3/8" cores, at least if you're doing large batches. So many details... It does sound like a decent price for the one you posted so maybe go with it as it'll retain that resale value should you find it lacking in any way and after all, there are many happy users of that type of chiller on here...it may be exactly what you need.

 

[DuncB]

I've joined a colossus and colossus 2 together, added separate drain and pump for this and it whirlpools back into the kettle.
Original pump is for recirculating and whirlpool to separate port post boil and during chill phase.

 

[kurds_2408]

I've joined a colossus and colossus 2 together, added separate drain and pump for this and it whirlpools back into the kettle.
Original pump is for recirculating and whirlpool to separate port post boil and during chill phase.View attachment 866396View attachment 866397View attachment 866398View attachment 866399

Damn.That's impressive.

 

[Deadalus]

Hi all. I’ve been looking to upgrade from my DIY counter flow to something better. I was about to pull the trigger on an Exchillerator after deciding that’s what I want. But I was in my LHBS yesterday and he had what seemed to be a used all copper chiller. It was tagged at $200 but he told me he’d cut me a deal since it been there awhile. I don’t know what brand these are under or who makes them but know they a like $300ish new. I’ve seen a lot of them in photos on here. Picture below. I’m assuming the Exchillarator is better since they are both copper on the inside where it counts, but the Ex has the inner band to make the water twirl. But it s $240-$290 depending on the config. Just curious if anyone has used both? Or even anyone who has used the copper one and can say how good it is? Seems like there are no reviews of this no name chiller that shows up in a lot of photos. Thanks.
View attachment 866138

I haven't used both an Exchilerator and the one you pictured above. I have one like you pictured above that I bought used. I originally thought it might be metric but recent reading leads me to consider that it might be the same dimensions as listed in post #2. If you buy one used, make sure it has fittings on both wort and water lines. I originally thought the wort line was 1/2" ID copper but had a lot of trouble getting the fittings soldered on. Measurements and investigation at the time suggested it might be metric. However, as noted in post #2, which I also recently came across, indicate these are 5/8" and 7/8" outer diameter. That type of tubing is used in refrigeration and is a softer more flexible copper. (Copper water supply lines are nominal inner diameter referenced. (Not 100% sure on the coiled copper refrigerator supply lines.)) Probably has fittings that would convert to NPT if you needed to but better to buy a used one already set up. If you are patient, these run $100-$150 used on the FB Marketplace. There are six listed currently within 500 miles of me right now.

Mine cools just a little slower than my Therminator plate chiller did, scant minutes really. I always control fermentation tempertature, so if I am off a little at chilling end I don't much care and don't try to nail it exactly. I also whirlpool hops often. Those two points together mean I generally just do a single pass at the end (for ales). Before whirlpooling hops, that requires a drop in temperature using recirculation. That temp drop is quickly achieved. I don't bother to reroute the lines away from the CFC while whirlpooling. My pump is a Spike Flow. Let me note again, these are most likely 5/8" outer diameter and I just recently looked up the probable wall thickness which is 0.035" according to McMaster. So 0.625"- 2(0.035)=0.555" inner diameter for the wort. The 7/8" has 0.045" walls. Also, only 12'. @Broken Crow mentions some loss in throughput with his longer skinnier tubing. As far as friction loss, not considering any convolution which these don't have, the bigger inner diameter and shorter run vs 33' would cause a lot less friction. Mine whirlpools absolutely fine while passing through the CFC.

I bought a swaging tool and was able to properly solder mine. These may be brazed and not soldered as the joint is yellow, but I think whatever is used may fill gaps slightly better than the usual solder for copper plumbing. Some people have success with the usual solder but it was coming out ugly when I did it and not leakproof. I couldn't get compression fittings on it either but I thought it was 1/2" ID (nominal) copper pipe. Again, best to buy already set up if going used.