Where's the Rye?

[gratus fermentatio]

OK, I'm an AG n00b & I'm actually wanting to experiment with Brandon O's Graff, BUT it utilizes crystal malt & torrified wheat (in the cider recipes section) so I'm posting here; more grain is used in this section. If it's in the wrong section, perhaps a mod will be kind enough to move it.

So not wanting to waste a 3 gallon batch, I conducted an experiment tonight, trying to get a feel for the rye flavour profile; and I'm left wondering where the rye flavour is. Am I doing something wrong, or am I expecting too much?

I steeped 2oz (dry weight) flaked rye in about a quart of water @ 155*F for 30 mins. This produced a thin, watery sort of coarse, oatmeal-looking mess. It looked like oatmeal & smelled like stale oatmeal. It tasted like watery, stale oatmeal.

Having read that some adjunct grains need to be cooked, I then turned up the heat & boiled it. It started to smell a bit more like rye, but not nearly as much as I'd hoped. It quickly became VERY oatmeal-like in texture & became so glutinous that I had trouble getting any remaining liquid through a strainer. I'm surprised nobody is making glue from this stuff.

You know that wonderful rye flavour in rye bread? You know that intense rye flavour you get when you bite into a whole rye grain? It's NOT THERE in flaked rye. I could easily stir in some brown sugar & eat this stuff out of a bowl like oatmeal. It actually tastes like a sort of off flavoured oatmeal

The LHBS people told me I'd get more flavour from the flaked than I would from malted rye. It's hard to imagine any less rye flavour than what I got out of the flaked stuff. So how do you roggen bier brewers get that wonderful rye flavour to come through in your finished product? Or do you end up with something tasting more like an oatmeal stout?

 

[Hang Glider]

Rye is light in flavor. I use a whole pound if flaked in my rye pale ale recipe. I mix it in with the other grains, but when I was doing extract, I'd steep that pound for 45 minutes at 154 F and the runnings would be sweet in flavor.

If you boil it, you've got breakfast cereal - flaked rye, flaked oats....

For me, it's barely detectable, even with a full pound, depending on my hop profile.
The malted rye won't shed hulls like barley and is hard as little rocks. Plus they're small, so you have to adjust the rollers in the crush. I like the flaked better.

 

[PseudoChef]

I think a lot of people equate rye flavor as caraway, especially if they are comparing it to rye bread. I get very little spice from rye. It is more of a soft, yet earthy maltiness that I perceive from it.

 

[davesrose]

I wonder if some people are less sensitive to the flavor of rye. I personally like rye: it seems to add a slight acidity to the malt profile, but not in a sour way. But I recently saw an episode of BeerAmerica.TV where John Pinkerton (brewer/owner of Moon River Brewery) said he's tried rye in several recipes but has never tasted a difference. I've wondered if this rye taste has any correlation to PTC (where some people can taste this chemical, while others can't).

 

[Poindexter]

Maillard reaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[gratus fermentatio]

I think a lot of people equate rye flavor as caraway, especially if they are comparing it to rye bread. I get very little spice from rye. It is more of a soft, yet earthy maltiness that I perceive from it.

After doing some taste tests, I find that the caraway by itself isn't exactly the flavour I had in mind, the rye definately comes into play; but you are DEFINATELY on to something with the caraway. I will certainly be using this in the future; in what & exactly how I'm not certain yet, but I will be using it in a brew of some sort for sure. Thanks PseudoChef! And my thanks to all who replied, you've all been quite helpful. Regards, GF.