Does anyone know where I can get a Firkin? I am looking to set up a beer engine and use Firkin's to dispense my British Ales.
Where to get a Firkin?
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OP
OP
Thanks. Are those prices literally for a pallet of casks? I'm gonna have to call them, maybe set up a group buy.
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The <1 is for if you're buying 1-23. YOu cna buy just one for the $135.
I'd like to see a group buy on the 10L.
Wade E
Beer Buster
A Firkin what! 
Jaysus
Well-Known Member
This is the right answer - I got my pin from them a few years back.
Jaysus
Well-Known Member
Oh, you are in NY. I would suggest getting in touch with Alex Hall before you talk to anyone else. Contact info can be found here: http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/index.html
OP
OP
Can someone please explain the stuff needed to fill the holes? I see they have 2 holes and a few options on what to buy to plug them.
Jaysus
Well-Known Member
The holes are bung holes, you need bungs to fill them.
* The small round bung on the front (where the tap is driven in) is called a Keystone.
* The large round bung on the top is called a Shive and has a little stopper in the center (that is pushed through when a cask is vented) called a tut
* Spiles replace the tut and are used for venting
P.S. I think a Pin would be better for you than a firkin - Pin = ~5 gallons, firkin = ~10 gallons
More info than you want here: http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/realale2.html
Shive and Keystone bungs pictured below:
OP
OP
Thanks again.
So I need both stoppers obviously, and then when I tap it, I need to vent through the top and the tap goes in the front through the small bung (correct me if I'm wrong).
Are the bungs re-usable? I notice they are very cheap and that would make me think they are one-use items.
So I need both stoppers obviously, and then when I tap it, I need to vent through the top and the tap goes in the front through the small bung (correct me if I'm wrong).
Are the bungs re-usable? I notice they are very cheap and that would make me think they are one-use items.
Jaysus
Well-Known Member
they are one-use items
What would be the best method for tapping a Firkin using this DIY Beer Engine? :
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/fellow-homebrewers-meet-my-new-beer-engine-10529/
I imagine I would run a racking cane or something into the keystone to pump it out? Maybe a HEPA filter in the shive?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/fellow-homebrewers-meet-my-new-beer-engine-10529/
I imagine I would run a racking cane or something into the keystone to pump it out? Maybe a HEPA filter in the shive?
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You RocThe holes are bung holes, you need bungs to fill them.
* The small round bung on the front (where the tap is driven in) is called a Keystone.
* The large round bung on the top is called a Shive and has a little stopper in the center (that is pushed through when a cask is vented) called a tut
* Spiles replace the tut and are used for venting
P.S. I think a Pin would be better for you than a firkin - Pin = ~5 gallons, firkin = ~10 gallons
More info than you want here: http://www.cask-ale.co.uk/us/realale2.html
Shive and Keystone bungs pictured below:
Jaysus
Well-Known Member
Sorry for digging up an old post but this is something that I can shed a bit of light on, I've been a barman and cellar manager for real ale pubs in the Norfolk, UK for nearly 4 years.
The 2 "holes" are known as the Keystone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_(cask)) and the Shive Bung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shive). When the cask is in it's serving position the shive bung is at the top and the keystone it on the front. After letting the cask settle at cellar temperature (11-13 C 51-55 F) for a day or two a soft spile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spile) is hammered into the shive bung to allow the excess CO2 to escape. A serving tap can be hammered into the keystone at any time to be completely honest (many people have different opinions mainly based on how many taps they've got, luckily we've got lodes lol), but as a rule a minimum of 20 mins before use.
It's worth buying Cellermanship by Patrick O'Neill (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1852492783/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20), I finally got a copy before I started at my new pub and it's taught me lots I didn't know, even saved my ass a few times.
On the note of buying casks I've gotta warn you away from the newer style plastic casks like these....
http://www.ukbrewing.com/images/greencask.jpg
They're actually ****ing awful. Some of the smaller microbreweries localy have started using them; they damage easily and don't seal around the shive bung properly making for leaking barrels and infected beer.
These on the other hand.....
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/bob.wallis/tigertopscasksld.jpg
Could only find a picture of these but they're the style the fat cat brewery started with and they're not bad at all. Ours are maybe 4-6 years old and are defiantly showing theyre age but still hold air tight and have had very abused lives. It's mainly the bottom and tops where they stack together that start to wear and it's only from getting thrown around to much. From a homebrew point they'd be perfect.
As for the type of bungs, try and get rubber, wooden ones are a pain. They leak, grow mold and are harder to tap through. And you can't re-use them as the keystones break as you punch them through. Some of the newer shive bungs don't have a traditional tut either (the small red piece in Jaysus' image), they are just a solid piece that you force the spile into.
Best piece of advice when venting and tapping too, use a rubber mallet (wooden if not) and don't be afraid to hit it. You're going for one hit if you can with no leaks, but don't worry to much if it takes you 2 or 3. You get a feel for it after tapping a few casks, and trust me cask conditioned ale is addictive. Just make sure you can drink it in 3-5 days, but tell some mates you've got a cask and I'm sure that won't be a problem hahaha.
Again sorry for digging up an old thread but I felt the need to chip in lol
The 2 "holes" are known as the Keystone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keystone_(cask)) and the Shive Bung (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shive). When the cask is in it's serving position the shive bung is at the top and the keystone it on the front. After letting the cask settle at cellar temperature (11-13 C 51-55 F) for a day or two a soft spile (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spile) is hammered into the shive bung to allow the excess CO2 to escape. A serving tap can be hammered into the keystone at any time to be completely honest (many people have different opinions mainly based on how many taps they've got, luckily we've got lodes lol), but as a rule a minimum of 20 mins before use.
It's worth buying Cellermanship by Patrick O'Neill (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1852492783/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20), I finally got a copy before I started at my new pub and it's taught me lots I didn't know, even saved my ass a few times.
On the note of buying casks I've gotta warn you away from the newer style plastic casks like these....
http://www.ukbrewing.com/images/greencask.jpg
They're actually ****ing awful. Some of the smaller microbreweries localy have started using them; they damage easily and don't seal around the shive bung properly making for leaking barrels and infected beer.
These on the other hand.....
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/bob.wallis/tigertopscasksld.jpg
Could only find a picture of these but they're the style the fat cat brewery started with and they're not bad at all. Ours are maybe 4-6 years old and are defiantly showing theyre age but still hold air tight and have had very abused lives. It's mainly the bottom and tops where they stack together that start to wear and it's only from getting thrown around to much. From a homebrew point they'd be perfect.
As for the type of bungs, try and get rubber, wooden ones are a pain. They leak, grow mold and are harder to tap through. And you can't re-use them as the keystones break as you punch them through. Some of the newer shive bungs don't have a traditional tut either (the small red piece in Jaysus' image), they are just a solid piece that you force the spile into.
Best piece of advice when venting and tapping too, use a rubber mallet (wooden if not) and don't be afraid to hit it. You're going for one hit if you can with no leaks, but don't worry to much if it takes you 2 or 3. You get a feel for it after tapping a few casks, and trust me cask conditioned ale is addictive. Just make sure you can drink it in 3-5 days, but tell some mates you've got a cask and I'm sure that won't be a problem hahaha.
Again sorry for digging up an old thread but I felt the need to chip in lol
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Paymygasbill77
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Northern Brewer's Brew TV did a good episode on cask Ale. They used a pin instead of a firkin.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewingtv/And they sell casks as well
4.5 gallon pin http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/stainless-steel-pin.html
And a 10.8 Gallon Firkin http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/stainless-steel-firkin.html
as well as Shives, spiles, and keystones. http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/kegging/beer-engines/cask-supplies
Everything they sell is very high quality. My friend got a pin and has a cask party once in a while.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewingtv/And they sell casks as well
4.5 gallon pin http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/stainless-steel-pin.html
And a 10.8 Gallon Firkin http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/stainless-steel-firkin.html
as well as Shives, spiles, and keystones. http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/brewing/kegging/beer-engines/cask-supplies
Everything they sell is very high quality. My friend got a pin and has a cask party once in a while.
sebring96hbg
Well-Known Member
You have the 411 on the plastic casks reversed. The one from UK Brewing is the much improved one. The shive bung screws on and is torqued at 26 ft-lbs. There is an EPDM seal and there are no leaks.
The colorful assortment of firkins are from CypherCo and are known to be problematic on Jim's Beer Kit.
I have the GPS GreenCask from UK Brewing and am happy with it.
I assure you I havnt. Ive been working with cask ale for nearly 4 years. My last pub was a weatherspoons with 7 real ales where i was ale champion (they have champions for everything lol). At current a pub that serves 8 hand pumps and a tap room with up to 12 others on gravity. 6 beers brewed on site, our brewery used to use the old style plastic casks.
When i started we were the only pub getting them, luckily they've got enough metal ones now. They also have the advantage of interlocking rings at the top and bottom to stack them. Can do 3 tall full and 4 empty quite safely. A lot of the newer local breweries are using the new ones and I actually hate them.
From a homebrew perspective They're probably fine, my only experience is from a cellarmans point of view and trust me they don't last long the way pubs treat barrels. We had one breweries cask #003 and it just pissed beer out the shive bung seal from the day it turned up in the cellar. They were a brand new brewery tho so maybe he didnt seal it correctly? They just don't feel as hardy as other barrels, especially empty. And they refuse to stack with other barrels, even with they're own type. Important when your cask store can have anything up to 50 firkins of beer conditioning and 30/40 waiting to be sold.
As I say this is just my experience from a cellarmans view point and to be honest like most of us I just hate plastic casks all together. But then I hate steal ones for the weight and aluminium ones for the splinters lol. Just though people would be interest on the pub point of view.
Oh and one more thing, kilderkins are a just a *****.
When i started we were the only pub getting them, luckily they've got enough metal ones now. They also have the advantage of interlocking rings at the top and bottom to stack them. Can do 3 tall full and 4 empty quite safely. A lot of the newer local breweries are using the new ones and I actually hate them.
From a homebrew perspective They're probably fine, my only experience is from a cellarmans point of view and trust me they don't last long the way pubs treat barrels. We had one breweries cask #003 and it just pissed beer out the shive bung seal from the day it turned up in the cellar. They were a brand new brewery tho so maybe he didnt seal it correctly? They just don't feel as hardy as other barrels, especially empty. And they refuse to stack with other barrels, even with they're own type. Important when your cask store can have anything up to 50 firkins of beer conditioning and 30/40 waiting to be sold.
As I say this is just my experience from a cellarmans view point and to be honest like most of us I just hate plastic casks all together. But then I hate steal ones for the weight and aluminium ones for the splinters lol. Just though people would be interest on the pub point of view.
Oh and one more thing, kilderkins are a just a *****.
