When you have sort of a recipe?

[Blacksmith1]

Swimbo found this and said "Make this".

A few problems. There are no weights for the fruit. The amount of honey seems shy for a 5 gallon batch. and she doesn't like the idea of using all 3 fruits.
So current plan is 12lbs of honey. 6 gallons of water. 6lbs (approx.) of mango, cubed, frozen, slightly smashed, and bagged (waiting for bag to get here) in primary. (8gallon capacity) Squeezed prior to racking to secondary. (6 gallon capacity) extra to smaller container
SO Campden, pectic enzyme, nutes, in must with fruit, rosemary, and ginger for 24 hrs then pitch with K1-v1116.
Should I use a full sprig (6-8 inches) of rosemary( fresh from plant outside) or crush it?
Should I wait and force the mango Ginger and rosemary into the carboy during secondary? (extra would be plain in this case)
I don't plan to use the irish moss or the gelatin.
Swimbo is diabetic so it will be fermented dry.

 

[loveofrose]

The real problem is it’s not even in the ballpark of an actual Viking mead like here: https://denardbrewing.com/blog/post/gruit-bomm/

Do you want a Viking mead or do you want to make this one very well? Happy to help either way.

 

[JimRausch]

Might want to try a 1 gallon batch first, just to make sure she actually likes it.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Nope! Already got everything for it. She wants me to make it and I'll drink it even if she doesn't. And she told me it's not a viking mead as they didn't have mangoes.
I'm going to do a simple ferment, no tonsa, or other complicated methods. Just looking for simple advice on the ingredient amounts and when to add which for best flavor extraction.
@loveofrose that recipe looks good but this is what she wants me to make. I did bookmark that for later. Her son might be up for it sooner as he is really onto the idea of traditional meads.

 

[CKuhns]

I think you got a pretty good recipe. Mango are pretty sweet, but for a 7 gallon batch might be a little light. i tend to go with just over a pound per gallon for a light flavor. The rosemary sounds about right. I would consider soaking it in a little vodka (just enough to cover it) for a day and dropping it and the vodka in secondary whole. Checking flavor every couple days until it is just above where you want it. It will diminish a little with age.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I can get another pound easy enough. My main concern is getting enough from the primary to fill the secondary into the neck. This will probably sit after that for months before I do anything about bottling.
The only other major change I'm considering is making it a bochet. I saw a post about a crock pot bochet and is got me thinking. Which anyone who knows me will tell you can be dangerous......

 

[bracconiere]

lol, i got lost on "pour into largy jug"....

 

[Blacksmith1]

I didn't even notice that.
Also just noticed they said peaches not mangos. It really sucks getting old
Well since I'm gonna need more fruit maybe I'll do a peach mango rosemary mead.

 

[NeverDie]

Ask her why she wants that particular recipe.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

Why would anyone add gelatin when mixing the must? Gelatin is usually used as a fining agent, post fermentation. And why use it with the Irish moss? 2 fining agents? I wouldn't use either one in a mead/melomel. Hope it turns out well for you.
Regards, GF.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Don't have to ask. She bought a large piece of ginger for a Tika Masala and wanted to use it up before it went bad. Then she saw this. I figure it wil come out at least decent so what the heck I'm doing it.

 

[CKuhns]

If your considering a Bochet and its your first - You might want to just do it without any additions. Just a good plain one to understand the flavors a bit. With that said WTF why not? The dark caramel flavors of the Bochet would probably do really well with Rosemary, Mangos and Peach!

If the Wife is diabetic Bochet tends to come out sweet if you go real dark on the honey,. I think some of the sugars are converted to non-fermentables.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Well it's not like she never cheats. Can't tell you how many tomes I've heard "I'll just up my insulin" over the years. She loves carmel and caramel so if this comes out similar to those I'll just have to hide the bottles for special occasions. I'm hoping it wil ferment dry enough to not be a serious problem. We shall see.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Why would anyone add gelatin when mixing the must? Gelatin is usually used as a fining agent, post fermentation. And why use it with the Irish moss? 2 fining agents?

Not a clue. Since everything I've made so far has cleared nicely on it's own I plan to skip both unless needed at the end to bottle.

 

[JimRausch]

The original picture of the carboy with all that fruit in the top gives me nightmares of cleaning it. When I have made fruit wines or additions to mead, I start them with the fruit with the honey in a bucket for about a week. Usually with the fruit in a paint strainer bag. After a week or so, when he fruit looks 'used up', I remove the bag. Then let the fermentation go for another week before racking to a carboy. Also, easier to degas in a bucket than a carboy.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Ordered a bag from amazon last night, I just hope it's big enough. So it looks like a plan is coming together. Still need to find some decent peaches.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Ok bag came in to day. Got the honey in the crockpot. Have the mango cubed in the freezer. Ginger is sliced. Did not get the extra fruit, I figure I can drop it in secondary if needed. Cleaned the dregs of the honey with warm water poured from one bottle to the next and dropped the Rosemary in it. Once it gets pretty strong I'll dump that water in the fermenter.
Starter is started, and I'm about to put most of the ingredients in the fermenter with the nutes and stuff.

Went ahead and put the rosemary mix and ginger in the bag, since I didn't plan properly and dig out some marbles, I sank the bag with 6 Black Magic shot glasses.

Decided to add a 3/4 jar of peach preserves, about 9-10 oz.
6 hrs I'll check the honey, tomorrow I pitch it and then we see.
I have no idea what I'm doing.....

[Edit]for those i may have confused, this sat unposted for awhile so it's more like 2 posts in 1.

 

[Blacksmith1]

This is about the 4 hr mark. At 5 it started to boil over and was very dark. I shut the heat off and pulled the lid which kept it from creating a huge mess.

This is an 8 gallon fermenter. It smells good, but may over power the mangos. I'm putting the lid on tonight and pitching it tomorrow.
Next one i'll stop at 3 hrs and see what I have.

 

[NeverDie]

View attachment 620574
This is about the 4 hr mark. At 5 it started to boil over and was very dark. I shut the heat off and pulled the lid which kept it from creating a huge mess.
View attachment 620575
This is an 8 gallon fermenter. It smells good, but may over power the mangos. I'm putting the lid on tonight and pitching it tomorrow.
Next one i'll stop at 3 hrs and see what I have.

This sounds like a bochet,. That'll taste much different than the recipe you posted in the OP.

 

[Maylar]

I have no idea what I'm doing.....

Don't let that stop you. Carry on

 

[Blacksmith1]

This sounds like a bochet,. That'll taste much different than the recipe you posted in the OP.

Yes it is, and Yes it will. Given how it smells, I'm hoping it mellows with age. I should have followed the advice above and done a one gallon first.
Well time will tell.

Don't let that stop you. Carry on

That's the plan.

 

[bernardsmith]

Why would anyone add gelatin when mixing the must? Gelatin is usually used as a fining agent, post fermentation. And why use it with the Irish moss? 2 fining agents? I wouldn't use either one in a mead/melomel. Hope it turns out well for you.
Regards, GF.

I wonder if that is a typo and the intention was to add glycerin to add mouthfeel (given the relatively small amount of honey/gallon ). You might obtain the same effect by adding more honey to back sweeten OR by selecting a yeast that adds glycerols (DV 10 for example)

 

[Blacksmith1]

So I pitched this on 4/6/19, yesterday it was slow, today almost stopped and lots of lees.

That is an 8 gallon bucket with about 1 inch of sediment already. I'm going to leave the fruit in it for a total of 14 days, giving it a taste at 10 and 12 just in case. It smells better than it did at start. Less bitter/sharp to the nose. More mango, less "burnt" odour. No, I haven't tasted it yet.

 

[Blacksmith1]

So I racked it and squeezed the fruit bag out today.
I filled a 6 gallon carboy and a 3L carlo rossi bottle. Wondering if I should rack them again tomorrow.

This is about 1/2 an hr after racking....

 

[CKuhns]

After primary - I only rack when 1/4" or greater lees.

Interested in seeing how this turns out for you.

 

[Blacksmith1]

It was over an inch before going to the carboys. I had stirred the bucket to agitate the yeast then let it sit for hrs. The CO2 kept it from settling out compleately. It was another inch or more in the carboy. I went ahead and racked it again getting some of the active yeast to move with it. It is now slowly and happily bubbling away. Smells pretty good, didn't taste it yet.
I'm hoping this isn't a huge mistake. We shall see.

 

[CKuhns]

I have done a few bochets, they have taken longer to ferment tend to be a little slow and sluggish. Higher ABV than what you have here near 15%. They ended up sweet and took a good 2 years to age but were pretty good once they did, i like the caramel sweet desert mead for sipping on occasion. I have read that some of the sugars in honey when cooked at higher temps convert to non-fermentables. Based upon your trial here I may try a 7% or so bochet with Hothead yeast. I do like how the bochet tastes and have recently ran a couple of lower ABV "quick" meads that turned out after carbonating in a keg pretty tasty in just a few months.

 

[NeverDie]

The only bochet I've ever tried was a commercial one, and it killed my interest. Instead of a caramel taste, it had a purely burnt flavor. I didn't like it, and neither did anyone else in my family. I only mention it because maybe there's some trick to getting the caramel flavor instead of the burnt flavor.

 

[CKuhns]

I think you really have to watch how far and fast you boil the honey. I like the crockpot idea. Some folks bring it all the way to completely black and burnt. There is a you tube video out there doing that. Others wait until the steam or smoke from the bubbles while boiling turns dark. I used cheapo honey from WM on a very slow simmer stirring a lot and ended it at what i thought was close to a molasses color. No burnt flavors more of a toasted or dark caramel with almost but hard to pick out marshmallow. I was going for more of a toasted marshmallow just wasnt able to get there. Still pretty good though. Maybe stopped boiling too soon but didnt want that burnt flavor you described.

 

[Blacksmith1]

I went with the crock pot because 1) it wouldnt burn it and 2) from what I have read the marshmello flavor shows up at the edge of burnt, and I have never liked them.
the color was just at molasses when I turned it off.
I also did the "extra" racking now they are giving off slow bubbles, with a small amount of lees in the bottom.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Just to update, I'm racking today to clear the lees. They are just a hair shy of 1/4 inch.
Picture is from before the racking.

The thing with the black lid you can see thru it is the wife's ninja bullet mixer thingy.

 

[CKuhns]

Looks amazing!

 

[Blacksmith1]

I put a little in a glass to taste it and it looks like a darkish cider........

 

[Blacksmith1]

Another update at 4+ months in. Getting ready to bottle this. Stabilized it last night. Trying to decide if I want to sweeten with honey or with mango FJC. (Juicy Juice). Opinions?
This has mellowed nicely but the mango needs to be pulled to the front a bit. I figure a touch of sweet will help.
The SG is right a 1.000-1.002. It doesn't taste sweet at all, nor bitter. A touch sharp from the mango, almost an acidic thing. Hard to describe. Swmbo anf I both like it though.

 

[JimRausch]

Trying to decide if I want to sweeten with honey or with mango FJC. (Juicy Juice). Opinions?

In for a penny, in for a dollar (or something like that, I seem to remember my grandma saying). Might as well use the mango juice.

 

[CKuhns]

Blacksmith - You continue to amaze me. You try stuff that I would not just because you can. It sounds like your approach makes mead that turns out surprisingly well. I am more of a careful technique and exacting practices type and often am very pleased with the outcome. It goes to show that Mead is surprisingly easy to create with a myriad of options and even though the practices vary often we make some good to great mead.

Nicely done - Keep the notes / attempts coming. I for one appreciate them.

Edited due to being a bit tipsy and realized it did not read well.

 

[Blacksmith1]

In for a penny, in for a dollar (or something like that, I seem to remember my grandma saying). Might as well use the mango juice.

The expression was actually from england originally, in for a penny in for a pound. never got it as a kid cause I was thinking money then weight. But yeah that's what everyone here thinks so far. Up the mango and add the sweet at the same time.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Blacksmith - You continue to amaze me. You try stuff that I would not just because you can. It sounds like your approach makes mead that turns out surprisingly well. I am more of a careful technique and exacting practices type and often am very pleased with the outcome. It goes to show that Mead is surprisingly easy to create with a myriad of options and even though the practices vary often we make some good to great mead.

Nicely done - Keep the notes / attempts coming. I for one appreciate them.

Edited due to being a bit tipsy and realized it did not read well.

i look at it like cooking, there only so much science to it before you're turning out the same dish as everyone else. The rest is art, which is where the fun is.
So, that said, the FJC didn't add as much to this as I hoped. A little more mango flavor, not enough sweet to make a noticeable difference. So I added about 1/3lb of honey and brought the sweet just off dry.

So it's bottling day.

Got 15 1.5L bottles and a tall glass each for me and SWMBO. decent now, should be kickass in about a year.

 

[CKuhns]

Nicely said.

Agree a bit like cooking and perhaps baking. If you have a recipe you really like then your technique, ingredients and protocol must be exacting to get it to turn out the same as last time. (The recipe like baking) If you want to "play" then mead is tremendously versatile. As demonstrated by trying variouse techniques and ingredients you, I, and many others have tried. (The art like cooking) Of course, when the recipe and art is combined with the science of fermenting honey we then get mead. [emoji41]

i look at it like cooking, there only so much science to it before you're turning out the same dish as everyone else. The rest is art, which is where the fun is.
So, that said, the FJC didn't add as much to this as I hoped. A little more mango flavor, not enough sweet to make a noticeable difference. So I added about 1/3lb of honey and brought the sweet just off dry.

So it's bottling day.
View attachment 641364
Got 15 1.5L bottles and a tall glass each for me and SWMBO. decent now, should be kickass in about a year.