When to go from Primary to Secondary (If at all)

[Dextersmom]

would a 6 gallon carboy be too large for secondary and leave too much headspace?

 

[ThaDutchMasta]

just wondering if i should wait till the bubbles have completely stopped?

 

[c.n.budz]

Check this thread out. And don't judge fermentation by airlock activity.

 

[malkore]

and in case you don't click that link:

fermentation is complete when you get 3 separate days where the hydrometer reading is the same...AND that reading is close to the estimated final gravity per the recipe (or your calculations).

airlock activity means nothing really.

 

[RegionalChaos]

Howdy all,

Great site. This is my first batch of beer, so please pardon the questions. I did a fair amount of searching during the last few days and have some follow up questions from that.

So, I racked my IPA into secondary on day 6 and dry hopped it. The recipe I had been sold at the local brew shop said to rack it on day 5. At the time it was still bubbling through the airlock every 5-10 seconds. I thought this seemed like a lot, but was in-experienced, impatient, wanted to follow the recipe, and I thought it would continue to ferment a bit in secondary.

Within 36 hours of being in secondary all bubbling had stopped. So I did a lot of reading and research and the general consensus seems to be that the primary fermentation was probably still finishing up, and it would have likely been a better idea to just let it finish up for a few more days in primary.

I forgot to take the specific gravity before pitching yeast, and when I went to take it at the time of racking, I accidentally dropped and broke my hydrometer. So, so much for that until I replace it.

I plan on giving it 2 weeks in secondary and then bottling and letting it condition for 3-4 weeks in bottles. I'm hopeful I'll still have something somewhat tasty to enjoy.

So here's my real question though. Why do so many of the recipes treat fermentation as if it's over in 3 days? All the online, seemingly current info I read says it can take between 7-10 days (or even longer) for primary fermentation to complete. The recipe I had said 5 days, and a lot of the recipes in the books I've been reading seem to lean towards shorter primary fermentation times as well... What gives?

I'm already planning my next IPA and plan to let it complete it's ferment before racking to secondary.. I'll be sure to use gravity readings to figure it out next time..

 

[mrfocus]

So here's my real question though. Why do so many of the recipes treat fermentation as if it's over in 3 days? All the online, seemingly current info I read says it can take between 7-10 days (or even longer) for primary fermentation to complete. The recipe I had said 5 days, and a lot of the recipes in the books I've been reading seem to lean towards shorter primary fermentation times as well... What gives?

It all has to do with optimal pitching rate. The guys at A-B probably ferment in 3-4 days, but they have optimal pitching rates as well (as proportionate to the total volume).

I will suppose that you used dry yeast. Normally, the 11g packs have optimal pitching rates for 5-6 gallons of wort. The problem is, they only have that high cell count when they leave the factory. By the time it gets shipped to a distributor, then to the LHBS, has time to sit in a fridge for a month or two, and you buy it and pitch it, some yeast cells will die. Thus, most of us using a packet will have sub-par pitching rates. Thus, the yeast will have to replicate themselves more, which will cause a delay. Even then, the amount of yeast in the wort will most likely be sub-par.

If you've seen people talk about pitching onto a yeast cake (the residue in the bottom of the fermenter when fermentation is done) most people use that to (1- re-use yeast 2- if they have a big beer then they need a lot of yeast) or 3- reduce fermentation time.

Most people around here recommend using the 1-2-3 method, but the only sure-fire way to know if fermentation is complete is to have similar Final Gravity readings 2-3 days apart. The main problem with using the airlock is that during fermentation, yeast eat sugar and transform it into alcohol (ethanol) and CO2. By the time the yeast are done fermenting, there is still more CO2 in the wort than should normally be present, thus it will take a few days for that CO2 to escape (to know more about this: [ame="http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=solubility+of+gases+in+liquid&spell=1"]http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=solubility+of+gases+in+liquid&spell=1[/ame]).

Lastly, this is but a resume, if you have the time / absolutely want to go into further detail, here is some good online reading: http://maltosefalcons.com/tech/MB_Raines_Guide_to_Yeast_Culturing.php

 

[lostnfoam]

damn couldnt have said it better! nice post

 

[lostnfoam]

use the power of the hydrometer

 

[DeathBrewer]

i rarely rack mine earlier than 2 weeks. whats the point?

 

[mrk305]

i rarely rack mine earlier than 2 weeks. whats the point?

... making room for the next batch, when you are new and have limited equipment (been there, done that)

 

[Bearcat Brewmeister]

I typically move my ales when they are 90% of the way to their FG and that is usually 5 days for low SG beers and 10 days for high SG beers (also variable based on pitch count and fermentation temperature). The reason I say 90% is that I still get a small amount of CO2 production in the secondary and push out any O2 that is in there.

 

[RegionalChaos]

It was WLP001, so liquid yeast. And I've already got plans for my next batch and that empty carboy over there...

 

[SRFeldman79]

I tend to look at fermentation this way. I pitch the yeast, with or without a starter depending upon the OG I'm expecting. Once it gets started, I gleefully listen to all the bubbling going on each day - i come home to SWMBO and happy bubbling. When I come home and the bubbling is getting less and less noticeable, I start to figure out which day I can rack to the secondary on.

 

[sirsloop]

IDK, even if bubbling has stopped completely I don't rack the beer until at least two weeks has passed. You're only gonna hurt it by rushing things. Buckets are cheap... if you want more capacity rushing beer out of primary isn't the way to go. (says the guy with 11 things in primary at the moment )

 

[malkore]

I never rack until the beer has hit final gravity.
You can stress the yeast and create off flavors, or even a stuck fermentation on bigger beers.

 

[IrregularPulse]

If it stops consistently for 3 days but you are far off you recipes FG should you re-pitch then?

 

[jayhoz]

Try rousing the yeast (swirl the fermenter) and moving the fermenter to a place that maintains correct temps for the yeast strain you are using (mid to high 60's usually) first.

 

[VA Brew]

I had a similar question and my conclusion was that an advantage to transferring to secondary either a little early or right after fermentation is complete is that CO2 escaping form the wort will make a layer of CO2 above the brew protecting it from oxidation (which means you can leave it in secondary longer without worry). That is what i am thinking but i could be wrong. I am only on batch #6.

 

[Warrior]

I had a similar question and my conclusion was that an advantage to transferring to secondary either a little early or right after fermentation is complete is that CO2 escaping form the wort will make a layer of CO2 above the brew protecting it from oxidation (which means you can leave it in secondary longer without worry). That is what i am thinking but i could be wrong. I am only on batch #6.

I've never had much problem with oxidation except for when I was all grain brewing and my pump was re circulating the mash wort. I got some hot side aeration that showed up in my beers as they aged. I'm talking about over 1 to 2 years.

Racking in to a secondary should not induce oxidation. The beer should still be slowly fermenting which should push out any O2. By all means rack in to the secondary and let it clear before bottling.

 

[clarkman23]

What a great site...just found it and actually, I've been wondering the same thing...

I had always thought that leaving in the primary for too long greatly increases the chances of contamination...I usually rack from primary to secondary after 7-8 days and usually only leave in secondary for a week...I haven't done any really big beers, mostly ambers, reds & pales (one stout). anyway, great site...great info...

~Randy

 

[RLinNH]

I like to let my Beers sit in the secondary for at least 2 weeks. I rack t secondary when I hit my FG. Beers sit in the secondary for 2 weeks at 55 degrees prior to bottling/kegging.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

What a great site...just found it and actually, I've been wondering the same thing...

I had always thought that leaving in the primary for too long greatly increases the chances of contamination...I usually rack from primary to secondary after 7-8 days and usually only leave in secondary for a week...I haven't done any really big beers, mostly ambers, reds & pales (one stout). anyway, great site...great info...

~Randy

Unless your airlock runs out of liquid, the primary is pretty much a "sealed" container. Nothing's getting in. The risk is from "autolysis" which occurs when yeast start to die and consume themselves to try and keep alive. This creates off-flavors and usually begins to occur after about a month in primary. So generally speaking, you're ok to leave the beer in primary for up to a month.

I and many others are aware that this goes against conventional wisdom to get out of primary within a week or two, however I haven't heard any bad reports from using this process and it is easy enough to do. Unless you've got a need for the fermenter or the yeast, there's really little reason to hurry.

 

[wshymas]

I made a Belgian Strong Ale I had a SG of 1.072. Had a good strong Fermentation. The beer has been going for 15 days and the krausen is starting to thin out would this be a good time to move to the secondary or let the rest of the yeast drop out before I move to the secondary? The gravity is now at 1.016.

 

[cnoyes]

This is a very confusing topic as there are a lot of differing opinions. I'm trying to gather all the information I can to figure out when is the best time to rack to secondary.

From what I've figured out so far, you should rack it when the primary fermentation is over. You can tell this by checking the gravity using your hydrometer over the course of a few days. If it doesn't change, primary is over. It's ok to leave in the primary fermenter for a few days too long, but don't let it sit there longer than three weeks, or you can start getting off flavors from the trub.

 

[Beerrific]

This is a very confusing topic as there are a lot of differing opinions. I'm trying to gather all the information I can to figure out when is the best time to rack to secondary.

From what I've figured out so far, you should rack it when the primary fermentation is over. You can tell this by checking the gravity using your hydrometer over the course of a few days. If it doesn't change, primary is over. It's ok to leave in the primary fermenter for a few days too long, but don't let it sit there longer than three weeks, or you can start getting off flavors from the trub.

I would agree with that, but, you should not move it jut because it is at a stable gravity. You want it finished at/around your expected FG and stable.

This might help:
http://homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=43014

 

[wshymas]

Thanks I looked at the sticky and that did help I think I will let it set for 3-7 days. ck the Gravity and then move to the secondary.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

As a general rule, your FG will be somewhere around 1/4 of your OG. If you started at 1.072, then at 1.018 you should be safe to go to secondary. Since you're at 1.016 I'd say that your yeast has done it's job and it's safe for you to go ahead and rack to secondary.

 

[Got Trub?]

As mentioned above you are probably fine to rack now.

Personally I've switched to completing fermentation and conditioning in the same vessel. I pitch the appropriate amount of healthy yeast into well aerated wort so autolysis isn't an issue in the 4-6weeks I may leave it in the primary. It leaves the beer and yeast together so the yeast can finish their job. I'm lazy and it saves me a step and it removes one opportunity for contamination. YMMV.

GT

 

[beergorila]

It's hard to find an exact answer to my question within this thread, so if this is a double-post, I apologize...

Without checking with a hydrometer (and I know some will say do just do that), should you ever switch to secondary when there STILL is activity in the airlock?

It's now been 8 days in the primary, but still 4-5 bubbles a minute. I'm just trying to save time sanitizing the thief if I shouldn't even bother yet with this much activity still...

 

[Yooper]

No, as long as the fermentation is active, don't rack it. I like to leave my beer on the yeast cake a few days after fermentation is finished, before racking it to the clearing vessel. Leaving it on the yeast cake in the primary fermenter allows the yeast to clean up after itself and settle to the bottom. It makes a better beer.

 

[IrregularPulse]

It's hard to find an exact answer to my question within this thread, so if this is a double-post, I apologize...

Without checking with a hydrometer (and I know some will say do just do that), should you ever switch to secondary when there STILL is activity in the airlock?

It's now been 8 days in the primary, but still 4-5 bubbles a minute. I'm just trying to save time sanitizing the thief if I shouldn't even bother yet with this much activity still...

This airlock activity doesn't necessarily mean it's still fermenting. It could be the yeast releasing Co2. That is why it's important to go by Hydrometer readings. Airlock doesn't really mean anything except there is gas of some form escaping.

 

[beergorila]

OK guys ... I'm totally at a loss. This brew is STILL bubbling after 12 days!! Are you saying that this may NOT be fermentation, and that I can rack to secondary now?? This just seems really abnormal for that much activity. It's a honey kolsch, so by no means a "big" beer.

I just got a new hydrometer (broke last one just prior to this batch), so I guess I should take the readings today & tomorrow to be sure.

 

[IrregularPulse]

yes we can't answer your question without hydrometer readings, thats why you keep coming up with the same answer to this type of question. The hydrometer is the only one that knows for 100% sure.

 

[comj49]

Does the temp have a big effect on the secondary? Meaning, can you move from primary to secondary and store the secondary in a different temp environment, maybe even a drop of 10-15 degrees? Just wondering if i can get my beer out of my living room to my garage (since i have no basement).

 

[DeathBrewer]

no problem, as long as your fermentation is finished.

it'll actually help to clear the beer with a colder temperature in the secondary.

 

[431brew]

Racking in to a secondary should not induce oxidation. The beer should still be slowly fermenting which should push out any O2. By all means rack in to the secondary and let it clear before bottling.

Warrior may have answered my question, but I want to make sure I understand. I am noob, so bear with me if this is a silly question.....

If you allow fermentation to end (as suggested in these posts), before you transfer to a secondary (bucket, in my case), why doesn't this oxidate the beer? Is there still enough yeast activity on a smaller scale that CO2 is being created and pushing the oxygen out?

I know that this does not mean that my fermentation has stopped, but my airlock stopped bubbling a few days ago and yesterday, the 12th day in the primary, I transferred it to the secondary for clearing. So far, the bubbling has not started back, even with only a little headspace. I am concerned that there won't be enough activity to push the oxygen out of the bucket. (No, I didn't take a hydrometer reading. I recently bought one to use with this batch of beer and forgot that I had it. Now, I am afraid to check it because I am afraid of introducing more oxygen to the bucket.)

Thanks.

 

[Big10Seaner]

It will be fine, it doesn't need to be bubbling in the secondary. Any bubbling which would occur should be CO2 coming out of suspension (it is NOT still fermenting).

 

[Yooper]

You generally don't have oxidation issues because you will "quietly" rack your beer. That is, transfer via siphon so the tip of the tubing is at the bottom of the receiving vessel, and it doesn't splash at all. As it transfer, the tip is covered, so that the beer rises in the carboy, but still doesn't splash. Since you're siphoning from the bottom of one container into the bottom of the next, you will minimize any chance of O2 to interact. And some co2 will come out of suspension while you are doing this, to help protect the surface of the beer as you rack.

 

[431brew]

Thanks, Yooper and Big10.

 

[Jim Fehrenbach]

I am a rookie to brewing. I have been given some pure honey from a family friend and I like higher alcohol beer. When should I add this honey to my boil if I have a standard 5 gallon recipe for Honey Nut Ale.