When did craft beer prices “jump the shark”

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That was the case in the past, but changed in ~2017 or so..
Ok, right. Quick read shows it seemed well intended advisory but required growlers be completely unbranded and breweries could decide individually and federal law still mandates surgeon general warning but etc etc. Still, I had not known that and thanks.
 
That was the case in the past, but changed in ~2017 or so..
https://bevspot.com/what-massachusetts-new-growler-law-really-means/
Also after a day at homebrew con, then a bar, we stopped at a bottle shop, and I guess I picked up one of these ~36 dollar 4 packs, having not paid attention to the price(other beers purchased as well).. The one I tried was not really a beer, but an ~5.3% fruit smoothie, chunks of fruit and all.. could not drink more than a few sips and down the drain it went..
That's more like an expensive hipster fruity cocktail. A can of punch even?
 
That was the case in the past, but changed in ~2017 or so..
https://bevspot.com/what-massachusetts-new-growler-law-really-means/
Also after a day at homebrew con, then a bar, we stopped at a bottle shop, and I guess I picked up one of these ~36 dollar 4 packs, having not paid attention to the price(other beers purchased as well).. The one I tried was not really a beer, but an ~5.3% fruit smoothie, chunks of fruit and all.. could not drink more than a few sips and down the drain it went..
For fox sake man.... I cannot decide what's worse, the "beer" or the money wasted.
 
One thing I think about when I think about the craft beer industry, is that the reality of being successful as a brewery is mostly marketing. I think this goes for macro big big business breweries as well as tiny nanos. You have to brew good beer, but even I can do that, what makes breweries succeed or fail seems to be successful marketing. If your beer is not good you are also sunk, but the best beer in the world won't save your brewery without effective marketing. People are already paying more for specialty styles in craft beer so its hard to say what the limit is. Another thing to consider is who you are aiming at. The craft beer market is already small and not really competing on price. Some people have a lot of money to spend, and often spend it on things that advertise their status as financially successful, or are willing to spend to give the impression they are financially successful. I think its safe to say that generally a part of the reason people buy $35/4 specialty beer is like people buying any other prestige consumer good, sending a social signal. Of course many people don't consciously acknowledge that, when they buy $900 shoes or $150,000 cars its for the quality product. So the decision to price a specialty beer at $9 / can is a decision to market that beer as the type of product experience that is worth spending for, just like the social activity of waiting in line outside the brewery store for hours for a limited release sends a particular signal about who you are and changes the experience of that beer, so does $9 cans (but not in the same way).
Expensive whiskey was mentioned. That's a prime example, super expensive whiskey can be $1000/bottle, but hardly anybody is buying $1000/bottle whiskey to consume privately. The vast majority ends up being business gifts or is stocked in a private bar that has the function of impressing people being entertained with the status of the person entertaining or impressing on the the person entertained how much their status is respected.
For the beer its probably more like the signal being sent is I appreciate hip beer and can pay for it. And as I said if you asked the person, likely they would explain that it is great beer and worth it, rather than anything about social signalling.
 
Unless its a big, barrel aged beer. I’ve bought a few of those. But even Backwoods Bastard is only about $13 here for a 4 pack.

Me, I’m largely done with all the over the top stuff anyway. I’m not looking for the latest hazy hop bomb or the chocolate chicken chipotle pot pie porter.

Thats the other question to ask - when did beer get so WEIRD? How did we start with Sierra Nevada and end up with pastry stouts?

Craft beer has always had an edge of trying to brew the extreme beer and this is what decades of that mindset gets.

Craft beer started off with trying to get more flavor into beer. Then even more flavor. Then most of the classic American styles were takes on English styles but with more hop character. Then IPA took off as an extreme expression of those beers. Then big beers. Then that one weird beer that gave the brewery recognition. Then more bitterness and more alcohol. Get into the late 90s/early 2000s and just look at Stone marketing with the whole YOU CAN'T HANDLE IT mentality. Then you have the IBU wars of the 2000s and big Belgian beers everywhere. Around 2010 we got saisons, sour beer, barrel aged beers, adjunct heavy barrel aged beers as the new kings of big flavors. Then hazy IPA started getting big, heavily fruited sour beer, pastry stouts started taking off and now we're back to real weird beers. It's just a constant acceleration of big flavors and a lot of alcohol.

If you loved the IBUs wars for trying to get the most bitter DIPA or finding the most enamel stripping sour beer at one point in that timeline, then you're part of how we got here. I'm part of it. Most of us are. Too many of us want to try the next thing, try the boldest beer, the most curiosity-inspiring beer. As consumers we're part of why this stuff hangs around. Most of us had that point where we got excited about what was new and interesting and then a point where it went too far but our start and stop points are all different. Homebrewers as a group might be a little more comfortable with our classic styles and more restrained beers than most craft beer enthusiasts but you can look around here and see we're not devoid of that mindset entirely, either.

(For the record, I think those slushie beers are dumb as hell and every one somebody has given me with the promise "no, this one is really good" has been absolutely disgusting.)
 
. Again, your customers aren't responsible for paying your bills or covering your setup costs. That's not how viable businesses work.
Your reply leaves no doubt in my mind that you have absolutely no clue about actually operating a business. That is exactly how a viable business works. Been doing it for almost 30 years. I am out.
 
Your reply leaves no doubt in my mind that you have absolutely no clue about actually operating a business. That is exactly how a viable business works. Been doing it for almost 30 years. I am out.
You worked it out quicker than I did, kudos to you for that, and your restraint. Respect. 👍
 
Things have got a bit weird due to the apparent need for craft breweries to continuously reinvent themselves, to market why 'they're so different'. To survive in a small dog-eat-dog market. The lies get bigger and more ridiculous. If you don't have a genuine product or service correctly priced the slick marketing soon wears thin, to expose a gimmick or even a con. Best to ditch it quickly and come up with a new one, apparently. To keep to punters interested. It got extreme and a little bit ridiculous several years ago. It's not so much that craft breweries are pushing the envelope of what beer is, it's more like they're stretching imaginations to cling on to a 'cool'  beer 'revolution'. An accepted small sector of the market. Blatantly, much of what we're seeing these days isn't beer, by any stretch of the imagination. It's a little bit funny when the generally broad-minded get accused of being narrow-minded, because they understand what beer is, and self-confessed con artists claim to be running legitimate operations 🙃
 
You can carbonate a strawberry milkshake, add some ethanol and 'strawberry' flavoured hops then charge $9 a can. You can claim it's 'craft beer', if you like, but it's clearly not and you'd be dishonest to pretend otherwise, to sell a weird overpriced dairy-based product as 'beer'. Those who can't distinguish between con artistry and legitimate business generally lack morality, not just good business acumen.
 
Unless its a big, barrel aged beer. I’ve bought a few of those. But even Backwoods Bastard is only about $13 here for a 4 pack.

Me, I’m largely done with all the over the top stuff anyway. I’m not looking for the latest hazy hop bomb or the chocolate chicken chipotle pot pie porter.

Thats the other question to ask - when did beer get so WEIRD? How did we start with Sierra Nevada and end up with pastry stouts?
That is something that has been on my mind, and the minds of our beer club. The market here is not as saturated as it is in America but we are trying to brew some of the styles that we see emerging in the US, though some of the adjuncts are getting pretty out there for us. Ally Schramm of Schramm's Meadery posted some videos making similar comments about the adjuncts in beer.

We have to cater to the Lager/Pilsner crown on some level and try to introduce new styles when we pour at festivals. We only do this as a hobby so our financial goal is to break even or finance upgrades, ingredients, or repairs to our brewery.

Hop and yeast development is far ahead of anything we have immediately available here and it would be nice to try some of the yeast strains or have hops that are freshly packed and handled as well as they are in the US.

I've seen some US beers go for as high as 150/bottle and I wonder who is buying them. That is a question I tossed out there in our club, "How much would you be willing to pay for a single bottle of beer?" My threshold was around 30/bottle and I was on the high end for our group.

It is great to see what brewers are doing in the US, some of it is pretty crazy but fun at the same time to see what people will try.
 
Beer's dirt cheap
There are actually business models for pricing. Inflating prices to cover costs isn't a viable model; propped up by slick marketing, it actually becomes more of a confidence game. A form of con artistry, not a good business model.

Well said.

I work in a guitar factory, so I work with a lot of twenty-somethings that are busy trying to define who they are and what they like. I bring in a growler or two to work for functions or keg killing purposes, so I'm thought of as being someone that knows beer.

It's depressing speaking to young beer drinkers. When you really press them a bit, they don't really know anything about what they like, but they'll talk your nethers off about how wonderful the latest exclusive four-pack that they recently acquired was...and then they'll show you the inevitable bunch of pictures.

"How was it? What did you like about it?"

It was really rare!

"Awesome, but how did it taste? What did you like about it?"

At this point they'll tell you it was amazing because it was so rare and we did these amazing things and drove this many hours....

Sigh.

Pokemon cards. That's what beer has become...$(%*@ Pokemon cards.
 
I've seen some US beers go for as high as 150/bottle and I wonder who is buying them. That is a question I tossed out there in our club, "How much would you be willing to pay for a single bottle of beer?" My threshold was around 30/bottle and I was on the high end for our group.
The same kind of people who pay $200 for a bottle of wine or whiskey. Irrespective of the subjective view of what any of us personally would pay (I'd never buy a bottle of Sam Adams Utopia, though I'd love to try a sip one day!) there are those who can afford it and do appreciate the quality and/or uniqueness of the alcohol on offer. Anyone tarring all those who would spend $10+ on a beer with the "ignorant hipster" brush is like taking any broad brush to any segment of people, in the end far more ignorant than those you're trying to pin a one-size-fits-all label to. The politicians and some media like to do that, let's not be as ignorant as many of them.
 
Is that how my post comes across: I am tarring an entire segment? That was not my intent, I was trying to add my observations to the conversation. Apologies if it came across that way. I am genuinely interested to know buys at those kinds of prices. I understood that's what the discussion is about, craft beer prices.

I've paid nearly 200 for a bottle of Mezcal but could not fathom spending the same amount on a beer bottle.
 
Is that how my post comes across: I am tarring an entire segment? That was not my intent, I was trying to add my observations to the conversation. Apologies if it came across that way. I am genuinely interested to know buys at those kinds of prices. I understood that's what the discussion is about, craft beer prices.

I've paid nearly 200 for a bottle of Mezcal but could not fathom spending the same amount on a beer bottle.
My apologies for not being a little clearer myself, the "anyone" part wasn't directed at you specifically, more at other comments within this thread.

I've paid nearly 200 for a bottle of Mezcal but could not fathom spending the same amount on a beer bottle.
I couldn't fathom spending that much on either personally, but who am I to say it's not worth the money when you potentially believe it is?
 
Thanks for clearing that up. It is sometimes difficult to know how my English comes across to other people in foreign lands.

Yes, it was a "once-in-a-lifetime" purchase, (that is until the bottle is empty!) ;) I have had it for about 3 years now and have a finger or two on special occasions.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. It is sometimes difficult to know how my English comes across to other people in foreign lands.

Yes, it was a "once-in-a-lifetime" purchase, (that is until the bottle is empty!) ;) I have had it for about 3 years now and have a finger or two on special occasions.
I have had a couple of small tastes of some fairly expensive beer (not $200 bottles!) of the aged variety, and at a certain age and of a certain style it becomes a sipping liquor not dissimilar to other expensive alcohols. Not how I prefer to drink my beer usually, but very interesting nonetheless, for those of us who are interested in the wide range of beers, and also how the segment is maturing and expanding as people become more open to possibilities (some in this thread notwithstanding ;) ). As someone about to enter the segment professionally I find it super interesting.
 
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The same kind of people who pay $200 for a bottle of wine or whiskey

I can tell the difference between the 15yr Solera Reserve Glenfiddich and the 10yr but to me it is not worth the cost difference; however I am unable to appreciate any similar taste nuances in wine, or beer. I chalk it up to my unrefined pallet.
 
Thanks for clearing that up. It is sometimes difficult to know how my English comes across to other people in foreign lands.

Yes, it was a "once-in-a-lifetime" purchase, (that is until the bottle is empty!) ;) I have had it for about 3 years now and have a finger or two on special occasions.
again, i have to point out the fallacy of this comparison.

a $50 bottle of beer is NOT like a $50 bottle of wine NOR a $50 bottle of liquor.

beer is (with very few exceptions) a perishable product. it does not get better with age, it gets worse.

expensive wines and champagnes are thought to "improve" with aging. (dont think it applies to whites tho)

liquor ages in the barrel/cask, once in a bottle its not changing.

as you noted, over 3 years you are still drinking and enjoying the liquor. i dont think its a stretch to say a $50 four pack of beer would no longer be pleasing after 3 years...
 
Well said.

I work in a guitar factory, so I work with a lot of twenty-somethings that are busy trying to define who they are and what they like. I bring in a growler or two to work for functions or keg killing purposes, so I'm thought of as being someone that knows beer.

It's depressing speaking to young beer drinkers. When you really press them a bit, they don't really know anything about what they like, but they'll talk your nethers off about how wonderful the latest exclusive four-pack that they recently acquired was...and then they'll show you the inevitable bunch of pictures.

"How was it? What did you like about it?"

It was really rare!

"Awesome, but how did it taste? What did you like about it?"

At this point they'll tell you it was amazing because it was so rare and we did these amazing things and drove this many hours....

Sigh.

Pokemon cards. That's what beer has become...$(%*@ Pokemon cards.
having operated half a dozen brewery/bar establishments in one of (if not) the youngest/richest cities in the US i will say this is not just anecdotal. it really is a "thing" with the millenials and gen Zs that they enjoy things or desire them because they are "supposed to" or they were told/shown that they should, via social media. that isnt to say older generations didnt have the same thing happening to us, we did. it was mtv, magazines, music, movies, etc.
but i would say they sheer level of bombardment nowadays is at least an order of magnitude greater. off the charts.
 
The same kind of people who pay $200 for a bottle of wine or whiskey. Irrespective of the subjective view of what any of us personally would pay (I'd never buy a bottle of Sam Adams Utopia, though I'd love to try a sip one day!) there are those who can afford it and do appreciate the quality and/or uniqueness of the alcohol on offer. Anyone tarring all those who would spend $10+ on a beer with the "ignorant hipster" brush is like taking any broad brush to any segment of people, in the end far more ignorant than those you're trying to pin a one-size-fits-all label to. The politicians and some media like to do that, let's not be as ignorant as many of them.
$200 for a bottle of wine I’d probably never do. Though people buy Dom Perignon champagne to celebrate. I never had it in my life. Never seen it under $100.

Now whiskey is a little different. I’m into bourbon. First there have been shortages everywhere here going back several years - even before all this supply chain stuff started. Some of the basic names like Buffalo Trace are already limited and have been rationed for years now. Good luck trying to find Eagle Rare or any of a bunch of others.

Every year the PA state store system here that manages liquor sales throughout the state of PA holds a lottery for the limited releases. You literally have to win a lottery - enter your name and have your name drawn from among 25,000 or more other people wanting to buy this stuff for the right to purchase some of these bottles. Pappy Van Winkle is supposed to be the holy grail. We enter the lotteries every year and I’m more than willing to pay $250 if there is a bottle I can buy. I won’t pay $600 for the 30 year old.

3 years ago my wife actually won and we were allowed to buy one bottle of the Old Rip. Its not pappy but the closest thing we can get. That was $125. And I was happy to buy it. Ignore what it says on their site. We don’t do it all the time but for something like that. I have that put away for when I retire.

https://www.oldripvanwinkle.com/whiskey/old-rip-van-winkle-10-year/
Scotch in general has gotten really expensive and some “regular” names from Scotland are over $100 here. Cognac is another one - the names are very expensive now. Tequila too. Don Julio and Patron.

We’re starting to see a renaissance in craft rum now too. Rum being matured in all kinds of casks and trasported all around the world

There are ranges within each product. The names at the top of the lines are always expensive. You can buy Jim Beam for $26 and there’s nothing wrong with that. I love some Beam stuff. But I like to try some of the more upscale stuff too when I can.
 
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I can tell the difference between the 15yr Solera Reserve Glenfiddich and the 10yr but to me it is not worth the cost difference; however I am unable to appreciate any similar taste nuances in wine, or beer. I chalk it up to my unrefined pallet.
I'm pretty much the same, but I am starting to train my palate on the different factors that go into beer quality taste (that's a little seperate to this thread though in a way). I can now recognise a good wheat beer even though I don't like the style very much, lager taste coming along too (you can't be a brewery in Australia and not have a lager of some type on tap!)
 
Now whiskey is a little different. I’m into bourbon. First there have been shortages everywhere here going back several years - even before all this supply chain stuff started. Some of the basic names like Buffalo Trace are already limited and have been rationed for years now. Good luck trying to find Eagle Rare or any of a bunch of others.
I'm actually trying to train my palate on whiskeys too, even though at present I really don't like them very much. But I didn't like red wines much years ago and now love them, so you can acquire the taste... being half Scot it's a crime not liking whiskey!!
 
I agree, I have been sipping on the Mezcal for around 3 years now and it drinks the same every single time, which is why I have a hard time paying more than 30 for a single bottle (0.5l) of beer.

I bought 3 bottles of 12 year old McCallan bottled in 1980 when I finished University. I forgot about them when I moved and recently found them in a moving box. Now retailers are asking anywhere from 1500-4000/bottle. I am not sure who would pay that but I don't really want to drink them seeing that.
 
How the hell did you have enough money at the end of college to buy 3 bottles of 12 year old scotch?!
That is impressive.
I've been following this thread and sitting on my hands.....this thread has an annoying nail in it and I believe you just hit it on the head.

:bravo:
:ban::bigmug:
 
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