The easiest way to do that is to buy from a local beekeeper and start that relationship. When you scale up and start making bigger batches if you and the keeper are friendly, things will be a lot easier, I was able to secure a big batch of honey not only at a discount but also held back for me so others wouldn't buy it when the honey pot got low.
What's your favorite honey for mead?
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The easiest way to do that is to buy from a local beekeeper and start that relationship. When you scale up and start making bigger batches if you and the keeper are friendly, things will be a lot easier, I was able to secure a big batch of honey not only at a discount but also held back for me so others wouldn't buy it when the honey pot got low.
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NeverDie
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Yes. As time permits I'll start looking into it. I think this pretty much rules out all imported honey, including from Mexico and maybe even Canada too. It's just too hard to know for sure where this stuff is really coming from, and the bad stuff all seems to be imported rather than domestic.
I have had mexican honey, and while it is different its still really really good. I stayed in Costa Rica for 3 months working on a sugar cane plantation and made some mead for the workers there using local honey from our island and it was amazingly good and dirt cheap, think I paid less than 2 US dollars per pound. Made about 10 gallons of it.
As said before, I only buy local with honey, don't mind paying a premium for something that's actually honey.
As for manuka honey, there is 1700 tons of manuka honey made per year, and yet 10 000+ tons sold...make of that what you will.
As for manuka honey, there is 1700 tons of manuka honey made per year, and yet 10 000+ tons sold...make of that what you will.
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NeverDie
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This article confirms that India is one of the countries that Chinese honey gets shipped through to hide its true origin: https://www.forbes.com/sites/larryo...is-worlds-third-most-faked-food/#7bceb1f84f09
I think it would be wise to avoid all imports altogether, unless you have reason to be sure it's not faked.
Also, apparently calling a honey "Grade A" does not, in practice, mean you're getting honey that meets the definition, because the government allegedly does zero inspections or enforcements, except maybe in response to complaints.
I think it would be wise to avoid all imports altogether, unless you have reason to be sure it's not faked.
Also, apparently calling a honey "Grade A" does not, in practice, mean you're getting honey that meets the definition, because the government allegedly does zero inspections or enforcements, except maybe in response to complaints.
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I always thought you wanted grade B honey, Darker and sweeter from what I hear
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NeverDie
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I received the meadowfoam and gave it a try. This honey is almost like a magic trick: it starts out tasting like regular honey but then fades into an aftertaste of marshmallow. High novelty factor.
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NeverDie
Well-Known Member
Not sure if you're making a joke or if you're serious. From what I've read, Grade B honey is inferior, by definition.
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NeverDie
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What time of year is there the most honey ready to market by small local honey producers? It seems like farmer's market is one easy way to find them. I found another one that also sells through our local farmers market but maybe there would be even more, perhaps smaller scale beekeepers, at the right time of year. The new one I found is: http://www.austinhoneyco.com/
They also sell on etsy, so they must have collected a lot of honey to still be selling it at this time of year, through all the different channels (including a dozen or so retail stores).
Anyway, $85/gallon (about $7 per pound). I guess that's the going rate, as, IIRC, that's the same as what maxthespy said he paid even in an entirely different geography.
They also sell on etsy, so they must have collected a lot of honey to still be selling it at this time of year, through all the different channels (including a dozen or so retail stores).
Anyway, $85/gallon (about $7 per pound). I guess that's the going rate, as, IIRC, that's the same as what maxthespy said he paid even in an entirely different geography.
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Does it have to do with location? same goes with maple syrup in my part of the world, Grade b is darker and has more flavor than the lighter grade A
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NeverDie
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"
6. Farmers' market honey isn't necessarily local.
How do you know farmers' markethoney isn't just shipped in and sold in Pinterest-worthy jars? "Unless you go inspect the farm or beehive, you don't," says Fratu. There's no guarantee that farmers' market vendors harvest the honey themselves or that it's even from your home state, so ask plenty of questions before plopping down your money." [ https://www.prevention.com/food-nut...-you-need-to-know-before-you-buy-honey-again/ ]
Boy, this is just impossible. It seems like you practically have to own a beehive to be sure. No matter what questions you ask or inspections you do, if someone wants to con you, there's just no way to stop them, short of ordering expensive lab tests. And the cost of that is on you. If you find it's a fraud, they just sell their crap to somebody else with no consequences whatsoever.
I wonder whether costco tests the honey they sell? They are one of the few (only?) retailers that seems like it tries to verify and enforce the quality of the products they sell. They have their own Kirkland brand of honey, so they're positioned to do that kind of testing if they were so inclined, and they have the buying power to both demand and get whatever quality they specify. They might even own the hives, just as they own their own Champaign producer and own their own dried apricot producer, and their own xyz producer. They import their honey from Brazil, but since it's costco, I might trust it anyway. If it were walmart, I definitely wouldn't.
I haven't yet tried Trader Joe's honey, but it may be worth a visit. It reportedly has all of the expected pollen still in it rather than filtered out.
6. Farmers' market honey isn't necessarily local.
How do you know farmers' markethoney isn't just shipped in and sold in Pinterest-worthy jars? "Unless you go inspect the farm or beehive, you don't," says Fratu. There's no guarantee that farmers' market vendors harvest the honey themselves or that it's even from your home state, so ask plenty of questions before plopping down your money." [ https://www.prevention.com/food-nut...-you-need-to-know-before-you-buy-honey-again/ ]
Boy, this is just impossible. It seems like you practically have to own a beehive to be sure. No matter what questions you ask or inspections you do, if someone wants to con you, there's just no way to stop them, short of ordering expensive lab tests. And the cost of that is on you. If you find it's a fraud, they just sell their crap to somebody else with no consequences whatsoever.
I wonder whether costco tests the honey they sell? They are one of the few (only?) retailers that seems like it tries to verify and enforce the quality of the products they sell. They have their own Kirkland brand of honey, so they're positioned to do that kind of testing if they were so inclined, and they have the buying power to both demand and get whatever quality they specify. They might even own the hives, just as they own their own Champaign producer and own their own dried apricot producer, and their own xyz producer. They import their honey from Brazil, but since it's costco, I might trust it anyway. If it were walmart, I definitely wouldn't.
I haven't yet tried Trader Joe's honey, but it may be worth a visit. It reportedly has all of the expected pollen still in it rather than filtered out.
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specialkayme
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It depends on the location, but typically June-August. Some as late as October.
In my area the honey flow is from mid April to June 1. It usually takes me about 30 days to harvest it. Then whenever I get around to bottling it, shortly after it's sold.
People think that when spring starts, you get honey. So around March 1st or so I start getting significant demands for honey. So I learn to hold back half or so of last year's crop, and start selling it in March or April. Once I sell out of last year's crop, I sell this year's crop. At least until I get about halfway through, and then I stop selling and repeat next year.
I wish I could just sell when it's available. I'd sell July 1st until it's sold out, then repeat. But not too many people want honey in November, and they all want it in April. Oh well, it's still just as good.
Sounds about right.
The numbers change monthly (https://www.beeculture.com/regional-honey-price-report-10/ was last November's numbers, I can't find the online published February numbers, although I have it in paper form). Statistics aren't kept for gallons. Just common weights (as well as Quarts and Pints, because people apparently can't get enough Mason jars). Only thing higher than 5 lbs is a 60 lb bucket (rough 5 gallons). Beyond that it's wholesale in 55 gal drums.
I'd suggest looking into getting buckets over gallons, at least if you like the honey. A 55 gal drum (~660 lbs) is difficult to deal with, but a 5 gallon bucket isn't. And if you can shave the price down from $7/lb to $3.50 per lb. . . Based on the price, if you buy 2.5 gallons, you essentially get the next 2.5 gallons for free.
I stopped selling in buckets years ago because I didn't need to offload honey at that price point. But if I sold more I would. And I have in the past (although mostly to people that turn it into wedding door prizes, as homebrewer never wanted 5 gallons at a time, they just wanted 1 or 2 gallons at the 5 gallon price).
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NeverDie
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That's a great suggestion. A 5 gallon bucket sounds like a great deal, though I've never actually (yet) seen it sold like that. After all, it keeps forever. I'd probably re-divide it into 1/2 gal mason jars (6 for $10) in case it crystalilzes, as then it would be easier to reflow it. Thanks!
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specialkayme
Well-Known Member
If that's your plan, go to Lowes, get a food grade bucket, drill a hole in the bottom and install a honey gate (https://www.acehardware.com/departm...k2tmwzX-HhC-6o39gePyCZ4E_9aNZrJRoCpYYQAvD_BwE). It makes pouring into mason jars much easier, and cheaper than buying it pre-installed (https://www.queenrightcolonies.com/product/bottling-bucket-5-gallon/).
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NeverDie
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I'll be ordering leatherwood honey soon.
Which brand of sourwood honey do you like the best and where do you source it from?
I think I may have seen fireweed honey in a local store, but until now I didn't realize it might be highly rated.
A friend of a friend lives in New Zealand. I wonder if I'd be better off having them ship Manuka to me rather than roll the dice on getting it in the markets here? Are there any trustworthy brands of the stuff?
I haven't yet found a source for Black Locust honey that ships in a reasonable time frame.
specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Honestly, my own. I put a half dozen hives up into the mountains of NC and get maybe a bucket or two of honey a year. Well, not every year. Maybe one out of every three years. The other two I get something, but not much. Most years it's mixed with something else in the area, but not pure.
Apart from that, check out NC's Certified Honey Producer program. 208 beekeepers are certified, but only 8 are certified for Sourwood: https://www.ncbeekeepers.org/progra...pLabelBrand&sourwood=on&max=100&submit=Submit
Contact one of them if you want Sourwood, although last year was a bad year for me. I don't know if it was for everyone.
I'd get it from a friend, if you can. There's so much crazy **** out there about Manuka, it's hard to sift through it all.
Black Locust blooms REALLY close to Tulip Poplar. It's tough to find it by itself. Possible, but tough.
You might try https://www.etsy.com/listing/463349...50Npn4mub-yCNmKvp70tzfry_8eG3MvhoCvAgQAvD_BwE
I don't know them, so I'm not vouching for them, but it looks like it might be true Black Locust honey. I like my BL from the south, but then again I probably would. They also have basswood (I think it's good stuff) and Goldenrod (if you're into that sorta thing).
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
There's a guy near me, hr or so away, that sells 5 gallons at $165, up near the georgia line I can get a 5 gallon of bakers honey for $95. I can get a gallon for $50. The $50 & the $165 are local beekeepers. Not sure where the bakers is from.
There are some hives about 1/2 a mile from me, but I haven't found out who owns them yet.
There are some hives about 1/2 a mile from me, but I haven't found out who owns them yet.
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NeverDie
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Interesting! First time I've heard the term "baker's honey", but the price you quoted sounds believable: https://www.dutchgoldhoney.com/product/bakers-special-honey-60-lb-pail/
The description says it's aimed at brewers, among others.
And here some is at the same price but with free shipping included: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/mo...5Kf1ESH94kjWlYwXM6GVwsNCC8At-k6RoCpi8QAvD_BwE
But then we're back to the question of origin and whether it's counterfeit or not.
Do local beekeepers sell "baker's honey"? What is it about baker's honey that makes it less expensive? Is this the stuff that most commercial mead makers use?
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Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
As I understand it bakers honey is the dregs of of the rake from the hive. They melt the wax and last of the honey out of the rack, so it starts half way to a bochet. I'm seriously thinking of getting some to try it. I just don't want to buy in at near $100 to find out I don't like it.
specialkayme
Well-Known Member
When you remove the wax cappings from the comb, honey gets trapped in it, so to speak. In order to process the wax (and have it be useable) you have to melt it. The wax floats to the top, the honey floats in the "middle" and all the junk sinks to the bottom. But the process requires you to heat the honey over 150 degrees typically. That process creates chemical byproducts in the honey that aren't really great for you in large quantities, and degrades some of the flavor and scent properties that honey has. Although the process usually "pasteurizes" the honey, and makes it so that it will rarely (if ever) crystalize (two separate things). It's also the process much of your grocery store honey is subjected to, in order to extend its shelf stability. They heat it, then used the increased viscosity to pass it through a ultra fine filter to remove pollen and other bits of stuff (air bubbles, small bits of dirt and wax, for example).
In baking, it doesn't really matter much since you'll bring the honey up to 350 degrees anyway. But for other applications, it's a lower "quality" honey. Not that the stuff is bad, just not what you'd probably want to use in those applications.
I'd avoid using baker's honey in mead. But that's just me. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but you won't get the same flavor and aromatic compounds from baker's honey. Which is what mead is all about.
In baking, it doesn't really matter much since you'll bring the honey up to 350 degrees anyway. But for other applications, it's a lower "quality" honey. Not that the stuff is bad, just not what you'd probably want to use in those applications.
I'd avoid using baker's honey in mead. But that's just me. I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but you won't get the same flavor and aromatic compounds from baker's honey. Which is what mead is all about.
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
So it is half way to a bochet. I'll do one on the stove before I buy in on this. See if I like it.
Thanks for the clarification.
Thanks for the clarification.
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NeverDie
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So, would it be fair to say that such grocery store honey, because of the way it has been processed, has pretty much the same quality as baker's honey?
specialkayme
Well-Known Member
No. Processed grocery store honey is brought to a high temp for a short period of time, in order to pasteurize and filter it. Baker's honey is brought to a high temp, sometimes a higher temp than processed grocery store honey, for a longer period of time. The temp and time both have impacts on the honey.
I'm on the east coast (Connecticut) and have been unable to find local honey other than in farm markets but in small jars (plastic bears) that are not enough for a mead. I'll have to stop in to a couple of them next season and ask who the beekeeper is, maybe I can get hooked up.
There's a house a few miles from me with a sign that says "raw honey" but when I called the lady said she doesn't keep bees, she resells California honey. Pure, unfiltered, etc but not local.
While tracking down an apple orchard for cider last fall, I passed by a roadside stand with of a bunch of bee hives on the property. It's in a farm area with assorted orchards, vegetable farms, corn fields, pumpkins etc and I have no idea what sort of honey they collect. But from your posts, I should be visiting them maybe at the end of July?
specialkayme
Well-Known Member
Anytime mid summer would probably be fine. July or August. The further north you go, the later in the season it's ready typically.
Blacksmith1
Captain Cheap
I'd stop earlier and get my foot in the door before they start to harvest.
gratus fermentatio
Well-Known Member
Here in MT, we're quite limited as to what we can get locally. We have plenty of clover, alfalfa & "wildflower" honey, but little else. I've found knapweed honey, but haven't tried it as it's quite expensive. I've used orange blossom, acacia, tupelo & buckwheat, in addition to the clover, alfalfa & wildflower.
I usually use the "bland" or non-distinct varieties for melomels & the single varietals for standard show meads, with a few exceptions: Orange blossom works so well with oranges (obviously), you really need to use it with orange melomels. Buckwheat needs to be cut IMHO, with a bland honey like clover or alfalfa; it has a "barnyard" flavor/aroma that a lot of people find too strong or just not appealing. I used a 1:3 buckwheat:wildflower in a 1 gallon batch & thought it was good, but not something I'd drink every day. About 1/2 the people who tasted it didn't like it at all.
Acacia honey isn't really from the acacia tree, it's from locust trees, primarily black locust. I've no idea why is called acacia, as true acacia is a totally different tree, but that's what they call it. The honey is VERY floral & delicate, so incredibly tasty, but a lot of the aromatics are lost during fermentation. This is a honey that is at its' best in a sweet mead, or fermented cold with a yeast like Steinberger.
Tupelo is quite floral & a little fruity too, maybe a little "pear-like"? Very tasty! Again, a lot of the aromatics are lost during fermentation, but Tupelo's aromatics & flavor holds up better than acacia's. I haven't tried adding fruit to it (yet), but I think Tupelo would go quite well with mild fruit like pear.
Clover & alfalfa will also make good mead, just not very distinctive mead; and since it's much less expensive, that's what I use as a base for my melomels. I haven't tried it yet, but I have enough linden honey for a 6 gallon batch, just waiting for me to ferment it. I'd love to try some of the other (for me) exotic varietals, like meadowfoam, rapsflower, pumpkin, almond, blueberry, cranberry, etc...
None of them are cheap though, and neither is shipping to MT.
Hope this info helps. Regards, GF.
I usually use the "bland" or non-distinct varieties for melomels & the single varietals for standard show meads, with a few exceptions: Orange blossom works so well with oranges (obviously), you really need to use it with orange melomels. Buckwheat needs to be cut IMHO, with a bland honey like clover or alfalfa; it has a "barnyard" flavor/aroma that a lot of people find too strong or just not appealing. I used a 1:3 buckwheat:wildflower in a 1 gallon batch & thought it was good, but not something I'd drink every day. About 1/2 the people who tasted it didn't like it at all.
Acacia honey isn't really from the acacia tree, it's from locust trees, primarily black locust. I've no idea why is called acacia, as true acacia is a totally different tree, but that's what they call it. The honey is VERY floral & delicate, so incredibly tasty, but a lot of the aromatics are lost during fermentation. This is a honey that is at its' best in a sweet mead, or fermented cold with a yeast like Steinberger.
Tupelo is quite floral & a little fruity too, maybe a little "pear-like"? Very tasty! Again, a lot of the aromatics are lost during fermentation, but Tupelo's aromatics & flavor holds up better than acacia's. I haven't tried adding fruit to it (yet), but I think Tupelo would go quite well with mild fruit like pear.
Clover & alfalfa will also make good mead, just not very distinctive mead; and since it's much less expensive, that's what I use as a base for my melomels. I haven't tried it yet, but I have enough linden honey for a 6 gallon batch, just waiting for me to ferment it. I'd love to try some of the other (for me) exotic varietals, like meadowfoam, rapsflower, pumpkin, almond, blueberry, cranberry, etc...
None of them are cheap though, and neither is shipping to MT.
Hope this info helps. Regards, GF.
I use Bakers honey about 50% of the time i make Mead. It is darker and does have more of a molasses like flavor. Can usually buy it for just under $2.50 a pound when purchasing 60 pounds. Is it the gest honey i have ever bought. Nope. But it works well with dark fruits, or spices and creates a mead my friends and family enjoy.
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NeverDie
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I'm at a point now where I'd like to give this two-stage honey approach a try. How are you mixing the second traunch of honey in? On a stirplate, or by some other method? Honey doesn't seem to dissolve very easily without some persuasion.
Brett_Bellmore
Me and my better half.
I do it at racking; You can rack part of the mead into a bowl with the honey, and mix them to thin it out, then finish the racking. The thinned out honey will mix easily.
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NeverDie
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I tried this leatherwood honey, which arrived today: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000VNNSEG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
I like it! Definitely good stuff. Not sure how it was processed though: it's a bit whitish and has a very high viscosity, almost like a creamed honey.
I've also seen whitish looking honeys in the store. What does it mean? Entrained air bubbles, or something else?
I like it! Definitely good stuff. Not sure how it was processed though: it's a bit whitish and has a very high viscosity, almost like a creamed honey.
I've also seen whitish looking honeys in the store. What does it mean? Entrained air bubbles, or something else?
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NeverDie
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I just now did the experiment of overshooting the FG on a mead and then backsweetening with Tupelo honey. This does indeed seem like a very cost effective way to insert the desired taste of Tupelo into the final product.
I have some Manuka on order, and we'll see how that goes.
I have some Manuka on order, and we'll see how that goes.
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NeverDie
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Because I truly enjoyed the Tasmanian Leatherwood honey I reported on above, I decided to try the Tasmanian Manuka from the same company: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006YHXTX8/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Unfortunately, although it's more expensive, I like it a lot less. It has a super sweet taste that lay somewhere between wintergreen and a root beer hard candy flavor. If I were given it in a blind taste test, I'm not sure I would recognize the flavor as belonging to honey. Is that typical for Manuka?
Unfortunately, although it's more expensive, I like it a lot less. It has a super sweet taste that lay somewhere between wintergreen and a root beer hard candy flavor. If I were given it in a blind taste test, I'm not sure I would recognize the flavor as belonging to honey. Is that typical for Manuka?
DevilDogmeadguy
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If I had to pick a favorite it would be blueberry blossom honey. But my honey selection depends on what type of Mead I'm brewing. For example if I am making a melomel, I always use a honey made from the corresponding fruit I am going to add, it only enhances the flavor of the mead ESPECIALLY as it ages. The blueberry and blackberry honey is also amazing if you brew a batch without the addition of fruit. As they age, it adds a very flavorful yet delicate taste of the fruit without being overpowering.
DevilDogmeadguy
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Oh yes, try it, you will be amazed at how much berry taste is actually in the honey itself. It's definitely noticeable. It does not taste like your typical wildflower OR clover honey what so ever (not a fan of clover honey really either way). I've used blackberry, blueberry, and raspberry honey in my mead before all are awesome!
DevilDogmeadguy
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Here are a few examples I keep in my house. Glorybee has a pretty good selection of varietals and their quality is on point.
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NeverDie
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Of the 3, which one has the most noticeable berry flavor?
DevilDogmeadguy
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It's kind-of difficult to say, but in my opinion the blackberry honey has the most noticeable flavor. They all have very noticeable essence of berry in them, it is pretty much unmistakable. If you first taste a wildflower honey then next taste any of the berry honey the difference is night and day. I often wonder why people use wildflower honey or some other type of honey with melomel recipes when there is literally tons of berry blossom honey out there to use? The real difference in the fruit varietal honey comes with the aging process. Brew a berry melomels of your choice and use the corresponding honey and wait 6 months, you will see what I'm talking about. The better quality honey, the longer it takes to reach its full flavor potential. 6-9 months is a pretty good guideline.
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