What's up with all the big beers?

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podz

podz

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I have been noticing lately that there are a whole lot of beers in the US that are well over 10% ABV. Here in Europe, it's pretty rare to see a beer over 8% ABV and the biggest portion of them are between 4 and 6 % ABV.

Maybe this is some sort of conspiracy by the taxi companies? I mean one pint of this stuff is enough to put you out of driving condition for a couple hours, three pints enough to knock you on your ass for the rest of the evening.

What's the fascination with the extremely high ABV beers nowadays?
 
The most popular brands in the US are actually between 4 & 6% abv, but there are quite a few craft brews with higher abv's. I think we just like our beer & we like a bit of a buzz to go with it. I never brew anything under 8%, even if it's out of style; I just like it that way. I like to have a bottle of beer (I bottle in 1 liter fliptops) & feel it as well as taste it. I can drink a 6pk of Guinness & wonder where the alcohol is.

I think there are also a lot of beer drinkers & breweries that are trying different styles, some of which have higher abv's. Compared to the past, the US is in the middle of a "beer renaissance". Wasn't that long ago that there were only about 4 or 5 styles available here commercially; now you can get almost anything you can imagine, depending on your location & your distributors. It's us homebrewers who have lead the charge into uncharted beer territory & a lot of the commercial guys, even the craft brewers, are sort of jumping on the bandwagon, trying to turn a profit.

There are of course, commercial craft brewers who push the envelope simply because they love beer & want to see what they can do & how far they can go. There are now beers made with nuts, seaweed, chile peppers, bacon, bull testicles (yes really), maple syrup, coffee and just about any fruit you can think of. I think it's awesome!
Regards, GF.
 
I think a lot of it comes down to the Roosevelt mentality of "Speak softly and carry a big stick"...minus the "speak softly" part ;) America is always trying to out-do NOT ONLY everybody else, but our own people's predisposition and ideals. Why make a dry stout when you can make an Imperial Bourbon Barrel Stout? Why make an IPA when you can make a Triple IPA?

I don't think right or wrong to push the abv of beers...but from a homebrewer's standpoint, I keep 80% of my beers above 7% (and many north of that), just so I get more bang for my buck. Higher percentage beers are also more difficult to keep balanced, so I'm sure the challenge is appealing to many Americans...me included :)

I also don't mind paying a dollar or two more at the bar for a nice 10% IIPA to sip on over the course of an hour. I think it's less to do with Sam Addams being in cahoots with Yellow Cab than it is Americans acting like Americans. I do, however, appreciate your paranoia. Haha!
 
mrphillips said:
I think a lot of it comes down to the Roosevelt mentality of "Speak softly and carry a big stick"...minus the "speak softly" part ;) America is always trying to out-do NOT ONLY everybody else, but our own people's predisposition and ideals. Why make a dry stout when you can make an Imperial Bourbon Barrel Stout? Why make an IPA when you can make a Triple IPA?

I don't think right or wrong to push the abv of beers...but from a homebrewer's standpoint, I keep 80% of my beers above 7% (and many north of that), just so I get more bang for my buck. Higher percentage beers are also more difficult to keep balanced, so I'm sure the challenge is appealing to many Americans...me included :)

I also don't mind paying a dollar or two more at the bar for a nice 10% IIPA to sip on over the course of an hour. I think it's less to do with Sam Addams being in cahoots with Yellow Cab than it is Americans acting like Americans. I do, however, appreciate your paranoia. Haha!
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Don't lump all Americans in your jaded view, please. Not every single American and not every single brewer, pro or home, has the mindset to outdo everyone else. The number of American-made beers that are under 8% absolutely out number their higher ABV counter parts. Beers that seem to draw crowds though are the barrel aged beers which in that case they almost need to be a higher ABV for aging. This is not that Americans think their wieners are bigger than anyone else's, this is just how it goes with beers that are intended to be aged. You won't really age a 4% beer afaik. FWIW, I am not a dry stout fan so I will absolutely try to brew a stout that isn't dry. Call me a ******* American trying to outdo someone but my taste is my taste.

Bigger IPAs, DIPAs, have a lot to do with the IPA fad today. It is a fad that has gone on for quite some time and won't likely go away soon but it is a fad. Again, there are many IPAs in the 4-6% range that are wonderful and there are more under 8% widely available.

English beers are sessionable, mostly. I think a nice 3-4% beer is great because it keeps you at the pub a bit longer and able to continue to have a nice time without drinking two and being done. It is what it is and it's a culture. Unlike your assessment that every single American is just trying to outdo everyone else. :rolleyes:

OP: I like "sessionable" beers and I like bigger beers. I don't seek out ABV, I seek out taste. I know I'm not the only American that feels the same and I also know that I've never thought to myself that a beer is bad because it wasn't high ABV or vice versa.
 
I was just talking about this with a friend the other day. For a while, it seemed like breweries were competing on hops and IBUs. Over the last several years, that seems to have waned a bit. It's still out there, but it's not everywhere like it was a little while ago.

I've definitely noticed a bit uptick in beers in the 8+ range at the local shops though. I think it's just the new thing. It'll probably pass in a few years and a little more diversity in terms of ABV will return. Seems like brewers are competing with each other in ABV right now and that's driving a lot of options.

I'd probably also echo some of the other comments about a style renaissance in America right now. There's a lot of variety on the shelves right now when compared to 10 or 20 years ago, and a lot of these high ABV styles are fresh faces in the corner liquor store.
 
I like table beer about 2.5%
I brew several beers at 4% or so
and rarely go above 6.5 or so.

Craft brewers do it cause they can and its very hard to make a name on "normal" gravity brews these days.
 
Hello said:
Bigger IPAs, DIPAs, have a lot to do with the IPA fad today. It is a fad that has gone on for quite some time and won't likely go away soon but it is a fad. Again, there are many IPAs in the 4-6% range that are wonderful and there are more under 8% widely available.

.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, I'm not sure you know what "fad" means. "Fads" don't stay around for a while and "won't likely go away soon" is the exact opposite of what a fad is.
 
PastorofMuppets said:
I like table beer about 2.5%
I brew several beers at 4% or so
and rarely go above 6.5 or so.

Craft brewers do it cause they can and its very hard to make a name on "normal" gravity brews these days.
Click to expand...

I don't usually make anything below about 3.5% (my mild), but I do make most beers at 5.25-5.5% ABV that I have on hand. I like lower alcohol beers, for everyday drinking.

I do make some that are bigger- like an Imperial IPA or something oak aged, but those are "special occasion" type of beers, not daily drinkers.

I think that while some bombers for sale in the shops are very high ABV, it's due to them being specialty beers. You don't see 6 packs of 9% ABV beers, but you do seen a ton of 4-6% ABV beers in 6 packs.

IPAs are still hugely popular, and the reason for the higher ABV in those is simply the balance of the beer. It's really hard to get a great IPA with tons of hops without enough malt backbone to stand up to the hops. That's one of the reasons now for things like Founder's All Day IPA, because people may want to drink IPAs with all of the great flavor of an IPA, but not get loaded by drinking two.
 
Yooper said:
I don't usually make anything below about 3.5% (my mild), but I do make most beers at 5.25-5.5% ABV that I have on hand. I like lower alcohol beers, for everyday drinking.

I do make some that are bigger- like an Imperial IPA or something oak aged, but those are "special occasion" type of beers, not daily drinkers.

I think that while some bombers for sale in the shops are very high ABV, it's due to them being specialty beers. You don't see 6 packs of 9% ABV beers, but you do seen a ton of 4-6% ABV beers in 6 packs.

IPAs are still hugely popular, and the reason for the higher ABV in those is simply the balance of the beer. It's really hard to get a great IPA with tons of hops without enough malt backbone to stand up to the hops. That's one of the reasons now for things like Founder's All Day IPA, because people may want to drink IPAs with all of the great flavor of an IPA, but not get loaded by drinking two.
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Yooper I am sure you know better than me, but isnt there laws governing how much total alcohol can be sold in a package like a 6 pack?

The reason you never see high abv beers in 6 packs is because they cannot legally do so. Which is why you see some in 4 packs and also bombers.

I know some bars which sell high abv beers can only bring 8oz of that beer at a time legally.

I am not 100% sure of this but i suspect it to be true.
 
PastorofMuppets said:
Yooper I am sure you know better than me, but isnt there laws governing how much total alcohol can be sold in a package like a 6 pack?

The reason you never see high abv beers in 6 packs is because they cannot legally do so. Which is why you see some in 4 packs and also bombers.

I know some bars which sell high abv beers can only bring 8oz of that beer at a time legally.

I am not 100% sure of this but i suspect it to be true.
Click to expand...

Yes, in some states the amount of higher alcohol beer sold at a time is limited and in some states higher ABV beers aren't allowed at all.
 
I think the reason you see big beers in America is because of the craft beer revolution that is currently taking place. The mass-produced Light American Lagers that dominate the market are, well, light! Light in flavor and relatively light in alcohol.

The big beer boom here is a pushback against everything that BMC stands for. It's a way for the craft brewers to ply their craft and offer something different than what's on the store shelf.

Then of course you got craft brewer and craft brewer trying to out-do each other on size, style, etc. They want to brew a BIG beer, and Oak it, and add Bourbon flavors, etc. because they want to offer a limit edition special beer. Some of those caught on and are now always available, but generally they are considered special.

I find it interesting that although IPAs are still popular, there are other beers that are coming into their own here, like sessions ales and sour beers. I enjoy a big beer as much as most, but I don't grab one very often. They are a treat to be savored or shared. I'm actually getting more into the lighter beers, and I'm finding that I'm not a fan of the darker light beers as I expected. I tend to enjoy the lighter styles like blondes, wits, etc. And of course, Pale Ales, and IPAs, etc.

I'm also a fan of beers like Hopslam, with so much hop goodness. I have to be careful because 1 of those and I am definitely feeling it. They are after dinner watching tv or trying to play WoW "on a good buzz, making my friends mad with my Jenkins moves, keeping it interesting". I gotta laugh because my kegerator door has a REALLY loud squeak when I open it, so they know when I'm grabbing another bottle. "Oh, here we go!" he he. Of course, the two taps on the front are silent, but I rarely keg anything high test.
 
dobe12 said:
With all due respect, I'm not sure you know what "fad" means. "Fads" don't stay around for a while and "won't likely go away soon" is the exact opposite of what a fad is.
Click to expand...

When people say "with all due respect" I am pretty certain they mean with no respect. I know what a fad is. Perhaps poorly worded but the IPA "hype" isn't going away but I think these bigger than big DIPAs where you feel like you need to scrape your tongue on sandpaper will. It's a guess, I have no scientific evidence to support it…nor do you, with all due respect.

If it helps, I can define fad without actually looking at a dictionary. We can take that off line (technically meaning out of the thread) if you're so inclined and feel the need.
 
PastorofMuppets said:
Yooper I am sure you know better than me, but isnt there laws governing how much total alcohol can be sold in a package like a 6 pack?

The reason you never see high abv beers in 6 packs is because they cannot legally do so. Which is why you see some in 4 packs and also bombers.

I know some bars which sell high abv beers can only bring 8oz of that beer at a time legally.

I am not 100% sure of this but i suspect it to be true.
Click to expand...

I live in Utah and my favorite Double IPA is sold in a 6 pack at 9% ABV. I'm sure it is different in other states but Utah is known for its wacky alcohol laws. I can't buy it at a regular store though. I can't buy any "strong beer" at a regular store. Only the state run liquor store...and warm. Anything above 4% ABV can't be sold in a grocery store. We do have The Beer Store though which is 2 of our craft brewers that sell only their beer, and they sell it cold!
 
WayFrae said:
I live in Utah and my favorite Double IPA is sold in a 6 pack at 9% ABV. I'm sure it is different in other states but Utah is known for its wacky alcohol laws. I can't buy it at a regular store though. I can't buy any "strong beer" at a regular store. Only the state run liquor store...and warm. Anything above 4% ABV can't be sold in a grocery store. We do have The Beer Store though which is 2 of our craft brewers that sell only their beer, and they sell it cold!
Click to expand...

Indiana has some stupid laws also. No packaged sales on Sunday, but you can carry out growlers. Only liquor stores can sell packaged beer cold. Groceries and drug stores cannot. We are the only state with no sunday sales left in the usa. i so wish they would get heads out of behinds here.
 
PastorofMuppets said:
Indiana has some stupid laws also. No packaged sales on Sunday, but you can carry out growlers. Only liquor stores can sell packaged beer cold. Groceries and drug stores cannot. We are the only state with no sunday sales left in the usa. i so wish they would get heads out of behinds here.
Click to expand...

Wow! Now I don't feel so bad about my state! We do have some counties that are dry on Sunday here and all the liquor stores are closed on Sunday.
 
podz said:
I have been noticing lately that there are a whole lot of beers in the US that are well over 10% ABV. Here in Europe, it's pretty rare to see a beer over 8% ABV and the biggest portion of them are between 4 and 6 % ABV.

Maybe this is some sort of conspiracy by the taxi companies? I mean one pint of this stuff is enough to put you out of driving condition for a couple hours, three pints enough to knock you on your ass for the rest of the evening.

What's the fascination with the extremely high ABV beers nowadays?
Click to expand...

I don't know about "fascination" but...

High ABV beers typically have a very complex flavor, so it's nice to sit there and stip them and try to pick up on all of the different flavors you're drinking.

And the high ABV pretty much guarantees that you're going to be sitting there sipping them for a while.

Most guys I know drink only one high ABV drink per night and then move on to low ABV beers.
 
Homercidal said:
I think the reason you see big beers in America is because of the craft beer revolution that is currently taking place. The mass-produced Light American Lagers that dominate the market are, well, light! Light in flavor and relatively light in alcohol.

The big beer boom here is a pushback against everything that BMC stands for. It's a way for the craft brewers to ply their craft and offer something different than what's on the store shelf.

Then of course you got craft brewer and craft brewer trying to out-do each other on size, style, etc. They want to brew a BIG beer, and Oak it, and add Bourbon flavors, etc. because they want to offer a limit edition special beer. Some of those caught on and are now always available, but generally they are considered special.

I find it interesting that although IPAs are still popular, there are other beers that are coming into their own here, like sessions ales and sour beers. I enjoy a big beer as much as most, but I don't grab one very often. They are a treat to be savored or shared. I'm actually getting more into the lighter beers, and I'm finding that I'm not a fan of the darker light beers as I expected. I tend to enjoy the lighter styles like blondes, wits, etc. And of course, Pale Ales, and IPAs, etc.

I'm also a fan of beers like Hopslam, with so much hop goodness. I have to be careful because 1 of those and I am definitely feeling it. They are after dinner watching tv or trying to play WoW "on a good buzz, making my friends mad with my Jenkins moves, keeping it interesting". I gotta laugh because my kegerator door has a REALLY loud squeak when I open it, so they know when I'm grabbing another bottle. "Oh, here we go!" he he. Of course, the two taps on the front are silent, but I rarely keg anything high test.
Click to expand...

For a lifetime of reasons (with a few scars to remind me), I rarely drink in public these days unless I'm having a beer or two with dinner. And even then it's usually something fairly innocuous to wash down the food with - like Tsingtao with my sesame chicken, or Bud with my pizza.

But my homebrews are usually pretty strong. I guess partly it's due to an attitude that if I'm going to brew, ferment, bottle and condition a beer, I should be able to feel as well as taste the results. But I am trying to expand my horizons; I just brewed a batch of Bacon 488's Best of Show English mild.

Speaking of WoW: I've always maintained my wife is better at it than I am only because she blatantly cheats: she plays the game dead sober! :p
 
PastorofMuppets said:
Craft brewers do it cause they can and its very hard to make a name on "normal" gravity brews these days.
Click to expand...

That sounds plausible to me. Everybody wants to make a name for themselves and ABV seems to be the current way to attempt that.

Regarding Belgians, there are a lot of them for sale all around Europe. Most of them are in the 4-6 % range. I tried a Kasteel once, just out of curiosity as to how a 12% beer would taste. Never again, it tasted like pancake syrup.

But here's my real point of ponder: making a high ABV beer without using simple sugars is expensive. So, how are most of you hitting these gravities? With white powder, or with grains? I belong to the camp that believes that putting anything other than water, yeast, malt and hops into a beer is a crime against humanity.
 
LandoLincoln said:
I don't know about "fascination" but...

High ABV beers typically have a very complex flavor, so it's nice to sit there and stip them and try to pick up on all of the different flavors you're drinking.

And the high ABV pretty much guarantees that you're going to be sitting there sipping them for a while.

Most guys I know drink only one high ABV drink per night and then move on to low ABV beers.
Click to expand...
This...

I'll bring home a special treat like an Arrogant Bastard ale, a Lagunitas Lucky 13 or a Samuel Smith Taddy porter, or crack one or two of my Belgian Saison homebrews. After that, if I'm going to keep drinking I move on to BMC or a discount beer (my favorite el cheapo is Milwaukee's Best).

Unless I go the other way and get into the bourbon, of course....
 
I think that as the beer market has become more fragmented, it's getting harder to get the consumer's attention. That, and I guess that's what makes money for the micros. There have been some great session ipa's come out recently.
 
podz said:
That sounds plausible to me. Everybody wants to make a name for themselves and ABV seems to be the current way to attempt that.

Regarding Belgians, there are a lot of them for sale all around Europe. Most of them are in the 4-6 % range. I tried a Kasteel once, just out of curiosity as to how a 12% beer would taste. Never again, it tasted like pancake syrup.

But here's my real point of ponder: making a high ABV beer without using simple sugars is expensive. So, how are most of you hitting these gravities? With white powder, or with grains? I belong to the camp that believes that putting anything other than water, yeast, malt and hops into a beer is a crime against humanity.
Click to expand...

I guess you'd better reconvene the Nuremberg International Military Tribunals then; I always add a pound of homemade amber candi sugar to my 5-gallon saisons. Of course, I also throw in anywhere from ten to fifteen pounds of grain and mash low... which might have something to do with the final ABV's. ;)

Keep in mind that the ingredients for a high ABV beer aren't necessarily two or three times as expensive as the ingredients for one that's a half or a third as strong. The time invested to produce them is pretty much the same - and normally you don't drink as many in a setting; you nurse them.

add: I'll have to admit though, that I do get judgmental whenever a brewer starts emptying his kitchen spice rack or his refrigerator's fruit and vegetable bins into something he expects me to drink. I guess everyone draws his line (or her line, Yooper) in the sand at a different place. Luckily, there's lots of sand and plenty of sticks...:D
 
podz said:
What's the fascination with the extremely high ABV beers nowadays?
Click to expand...

yep, it is hard to find a nice session ale most days.... All the Breweries in Raleigh seem to think more alcohol is better.

I love to go to the Lonerider Brewery each Friday but they have nothing un the 5% I like.

I had to make my own summer beer for daily consumption, a Saison, Summer Ale, and Hefe all below 4%.

Then again the US has triple chocolate thingys and you can get a 32 OZ coffee... everything is over done.

DPB
 
podz said:
I belong to the camp that believes that putting anything other than water, yeast, malt and hops into a beer is a crime against humanity.
Click to expand...

Why? There are some fantastic ingredients that can really compliment the flavor profile of certain beers. The beer drinkers in the same country where the purity law is in place regularly mix their beer 50/50 with coca-cola at the bar. I live here and see it all the time. It makes me cringe. With a Wit for example, I know the brewer intended for me to taste his blend of coriander and orange peel and it works nicely with the beer. I guess the German's get bored with the four staples and decide to add cola which is not only a crime but a sin.

For me, the high ABV beers is not just about getting buzzed or bang for the buck. Often times, especially with Belgians, high ABV also results in more yeast byproducts to include some amazing phenols and esters. I like a malty beer and a hop bomb as much as the next guy but for me, the flavors given off by the yeast are the most interesting and enjoyable. Even banana! :ban:
 
TimmyWit said:
Why? There are some fantastic ingredients that can really compliment the flavor profile of certain beers. The beer drinkers in the same country where the purity law is in place regularly mix their beer 50/50 with coca-cola at the bar. I live here and see it all the time.
Click to expand...

I lived in Germany for a long time. Localities have very local habits, but I've never seen anyone mix a beer with coke. I've seen Radler and I've seen Schorle, but never this. Anyway, I believe you.

The reason for my strict bias is that opportunists like to skate on the border of what is acceptable by doing things like putting salt into beer in order to make you piss more drink more piss more drink more und so weiter. Or use cheap ingredients but try to trick people into paying premium prices. Reinheitsgebot helps to keep honest people honest. Period.
 
I don't really understand the Reinheitsbegot philosophy. Plenty of good beer is made with other ingredients. They aren't necessarily added to reduce cost.

Sure there may be an art to making beer using only those 4 ingredients, but then there is an art to using ANY ingredients if you stop and think about it.

Belgians typically have a fair amount of sugar added to lighten the beer and increase the alcohol. They do that because if they didn't the beers would be really sweet and syrupy. AS it is, they are often light and sparkling and knock you down before you know it.

There is a magnificent rainbow of beer styles and flavors to choose from. Different strokes for different folks. The simple answer to why big beers are popular is that they get a lot of attention. It's not that they sell better. If brewers only brewed average strength, every day beers, they would not get noticed. They need some special editions to make their name.
 
TimmyWit said:
The beer drinkers in the same country where the purity law is in place regularly mix their beer 50/50 with coca-cola at the bar.
Click to expand...

My dad used to mix beer with Dr. Pepper. I don't recall the kind of beer he would mix it with but he loved it.
 
podz said:
The reason for my strict bias is that opportunists like to skate on the border of what is acceptable by doing things like putting salt into beer in order to make you piss more drink more piss more drink more und so weiter. Or use cheap ingredients but try to trick people into paying premium prices. Reinheitsgebot helps to keep honest people honest. Period.
Click to expand...

It also helps you throw the baby out with the bathwater. Nothing like a nuke to solve small problems...

Speaking of which, what's up with all the big, unwieldy rules about beer? ;)
 
podz said:
I lived in Germany for a long time. Localities have very local habits, but I've never seen anyone mix a beer with coke. I've seen Radler and I've seen Schorle, but never this. Anyway, I believe you.
Click to expand...

Check it out. Someone even created a tutorial for how to make this "special beer"

 
Last edited by a moderator:
podz said:
I lived in Germany for a long time. Localities have very local habits, but I've never seen anyone mix a beer with coke. I've seen Radler and I've seen Schorle, but never this. Anyway, I believe you.

The reason for my strict bias is that opportunists like to skate on the border of what is acceptable by doing things like putting salt into beer in order to make you piss more drink more piss more drink more und so weiter. Or use cheap ingredients but try to trick people into paying premium prices. Reinheitsgebot helps to keep honest people honest. Period.
Click to expand...

Lose the period, because it does a lot more than just that. It also helps to keep boring beers boring.

Sorry; I never could resist a straight line. I'm like Roger Rabbit hearing "shave and a haircut" through the wall...." :D

But seriously: although my personal tastes run towards what the Reinheitsgebot decrees (aside from my amber candi), I'd never dream of enforcing such restrictions on others.

add: maybe it was helpful or even necessary back in the day, but now it's simply an arbitrary and irrational restriction. The problems it was intended to address are better served by laws mandating an ingredients list and banning known harmful ingredients.

To me, blindly adhering to the Reinheitsgebot is another example of religious fervor overriding common sense and reality.
 
PastorofMuppets said:
Indiana has some stupid laws also. No packaged sales on Sunday, but you can carry out growlers. Only liquor stores can sell packaged beer cold. Groceries and drug stores cannot. We are the only state with no sunday sales left in the usa. i so wish they would get heads out of behinds here.
Click to expand...

It isn't like that in our state, but I don't think I've lived outside a county that didn't have that same bs law about Sunday sales except for a few year stint in Cali about a decade ago. I'm not positive on this but I believe there are more counties in either Alabama or Tennessee that have that law than not unfortunately.
 
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Hello said:
When people say "with all due respect" I am pretty certain they mean with no respect. I know what a fad is. Perhaps poorly worded but the IPA "hype" isn't going away but I think these bigger than big DIPAs where you feel like you need to scrape your tongue on sandpaper will. It's a guess, I have no scientific evidence to support it…nor do you, with all due respect.
Click to expand...

Actually no, when I say (type) "all due respect" it's a sign of respect and trying to show I'm not just disagreeing or arguing to be jerk. You took it that way of course, but it wasn't intended. Which again, why I say "with all due respect". Don't read more into than what there is. Seems like that's a huge problem on here and most forums.

My point was you calling big, hoppy beers a fad is completely misguided. And your own words within your post contradicted your entire point that they are a fad.

If it helps, I can define fad without actually looking at a dictionary. We can take that off line (technically meaning out of the thread) if you're so inclined and feel the need.
Click to expand...

Really? Grow up.
 

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