What's The Closest European Equivalent To American 2-Row Malt?

[bwible]

Try it, I think the secret ingredient in Crisp Corn is the total (really total) lack of oils, unlike in cheaper Corn Flakes I used before, which staled quickly and imparted weird flavours to my beers. IDK, maybe it's good not because of that, but it's good anyway.

I love me some adjuncts and boozy beers (I brew them often and have a fresh sizeable batch of Carlsberg Elefant lagering). I keep fond memories of gulping a 40-ounzer of OE800 in the USA. As I've learned now on brewing boards, it must have left quite a different impression. Probably, I just was tasting it in a wrong company

Isn’t it funny how people always want what they don’t have? Here I am in America longing for a real English pub with authentic cask ale on handpumps and there you are overseas wanting 40 oz bottles of American malt liquor.

 

[Miraculix]

Isn’t it funny how people always want what they don’t have? Here I am in America longing for a real English pub with authentic cask ale on handpumps and there you are overseas wanting 40 oz bottles of American malt liquor.

I am here in northern Gemany and trying to brew American standard lagers here


....just to prove that you are right.

 

[Protos]

I'm still unsure if I could really tell which part of the flavour is coming from the corn, although I used it at a rate of 30% of the grist.

In my experience, Corn adds a very subtle sweetness, which is hardly detectable per se, but gets quite noticeable when comparing to Rice or Sugar in a split batch (I did such a batch to pinpoint the difference in flavours between various adjuncts). I think, the more corn the better, but there's a caveat: corn may easily produce hangover-inducing fusels. Actually, my corny beers have been my only brews from which I've experienced that. I think, it depends more on the quality of Corn rather than on the brewing process. Using some brands of corn I was getting a slight Katzenjammer with just 9% of the grist, while with other brands didn't have anything like that even at 40%.

Isn’t it funny how people always want what they don’t have? Here I am in America longing for a real English pub with authentic cask ale on handpumps and there you are overseas wanting 40 oz bottles of American malt liquor.

It's funny indeed!
Sure, it would be much easier to me to brew an English equivalent to OE800 - the famous Gold Label beer, and I've got all the authentic ingredients for it!
But I have already brewed it last year. They said, Gold Label was a beer for bums, same like OE800. In reality, after a year-long aging, it turned out to be one of the best beers I've ever brewed.

 

[bwible]

In my experience, Corn adds a very subtle sweetness, which is hardly detectable per se, but gets quite noticeable when comparing to Rice or Sugar in a split batch (I did such a batch to pinpoint the difference in flavours between various adjuncts). I think, the more corn the better, but there's a caveat: corn may easily produce hangover-inducing fusels. Actually, my corny beers have been my only brews from which I've experienced that. I think, it depends more on the quality of Corn rather than on the brewing process. Using some brands of corn I was getting a slight Katzenjammer with just 9% of the grist, while with other brands didn't have anything like that even at 40%.


It's funny indeed!
Sure, it would be much easier to me to brew an English equivalent to OE800 - the famous Gold Label beer, and I've got all the authentic ingredients for it!
But I have already brewed it last year. They said, Gold Label was a beer for bums, same like OE800. In reality, after a year-long aging, it turned out to be one of the best beers I've ever brewed.

I wouldn’t say its “for bums.” Read on Wikipedia how malt liquor here is usually made higher in alcohol than other beers and is usually advertised targeting young inner city minorities. It gets somewhat of a bad rep due to that. They’ve used celebrities like Billy Dee Williams to advertise it here.

I drink my share of macro brews in between homebrews so I’m not going to criticize what anybody else wants to brew or drink.

 

[Miraculix]

I wouldn’t say its “for bums.” Read on Wikipedia how malt liquor here is usually made higher in alcohol than other beers and is usually advertised targeting young inner city minorities. It gets somewhat of a bad rep due to that. They’ve used celebrities like Billy Dee Williams to advertise it here.

I drink my share of macro brews in between homebrews so I’m not going to criticize what anybody else wants to brew or drink.

We want what we can't have easily!

On so many levels....

 

[Protos]

I think, because of evident reasons, cheap strong beers in every country instantly fill the "bum niche", independently of manufacturer's initial intentions or marketing strategy. Searching for Malt Liquor recipes, I found an excellent article on exactly what you are saying. The article shows that "bums" and "minorities" are actually far from being the primary consumers of the style, but anyway, the style has got its bad rep.
Here, on HBT, the style is definitely stigmatized too. Just look at smart@ss replies to some requests for recipes... That's why, upon disclosing what I need a 2-Row equivalent for, I kindly asked to not ridicule me for my choise... Which nobody did anyway, that is nice

 

[burtom]

Simpsons Extra Pale Ale Malt. About 1.8 L
https://www.simpsonsmalt.co.uk/our-malts/extra-pale-ale-malt/

 

[Steveruch]

Isn’t it funny how people always want what they don’t have? Here I am in America longing for a real English pub with authentic cask ale on handpumps and there you are overseas wanting 40 oz bottles of American malt liquor.

The true test of malt liquor is how it tastes, coming back up.

 

[Protos]

^ See that? Stigmatizing in action!

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

Best Malz's Heidelberg is at 1.5L.

 

[Mr. Vern]

in every country instantly fill the "bum niche"

In my experience poor neighborhoods, regardless of race, tend to favor cheap booze among other things. Back in the 90's I could buy (2) 40oz Old English 800's for $3 USD. That's a lot of bang for your buck!! During this time I was slinging $2.99 pints at a microbrewery in a more affluent neighborhood.

Best of luck on your project!!! There is no shame in making beer regardless of style and preferences.

 

[monkeymath]

I find those exBEERiments (most of them) deeply depressing. Because 99% of time they come to the same conclusion: NOTHING MATTERS, as their test panel is rarely able to discern any differencies in ingredients and process anyway.

Well, that's only an interpretation of the results, and a rather statistically incorrect interpretation at that.
The xbmts are actually set up to prove that something does make a difference, and then they fail to do so. If an experiment fails to reach statistical significance, then it means exactly that: no statistically significant result has been obtained with respect to the null hypothesis. Being unable to refute the null hypothesis has nothing to do with proving the null hypothesis. It's entirely an "absence of proof, not proof of absence" thing.

Of course, "absence of proof" is better than its reputation: for example, I'm rather certain that there are no werewolves, and that belief is entirely based on absence of proof, not proof of absence.

To me, those xbmts mostly show how hard it is to actually taste anything. Homebrewers will discuss at length the merits of various brands of Pilsner malt, but in the end, it's really hard to even tell Pilsner malt from Pale malt.

 

[VikeMan]

Because 99% of time they come to the same conclusion: NOTHING MATTERS, as their test panel is rarely able to discern any differencies in ingredients and process anyway.

Well, that's only an interpretation of the results, and a rather statistically incorrect interpretation at that.
The xbmts are actually set up to prove that something does make a difference, and then they fail to do so. If an experiment fails to reach statistical significance, then it means exactly that: no statistically significant result has been obtained with respect to the null hypothesis. Being unable to refute the null hypothesis has nothing to do with proving the null hypothesis. It's entirely an "absence of proof, not proof of absence" thing.

Unfortunately, what @Protos said is what what casual readers (i.e. most readers) take away from these experiments. And Brulosophy apparently feels no need to help them understand what the results really (don't) mean. The hurdle of p=0.05 is great (maybe) when you're doing drug trials. But for beer differences, either the bar needs to be a little lower, or at least explain what the results mean and don't mean. That, and get bigger testing groups to develop some power.

It gets a little old when most of the triangle tests result in correct choices at a rate higher than expected by random chance, yet they get the standard "...indicating participants in this xBmt were unable to reliably distinguish..." blurb. I mean, if I could consistently manage those kind of results with beers that actually don't have any detectable differences, my ESP would make a killing in Vegas.

 

[Protos]

but in the end, it's really hard to even tell Pilsner malt from Pale malt

...which leads the thread to the logical conclusion: Mr. Protos, don't sweat too much about your Liquor Malt grainbill, just take any Malt that is not black, not moldy and has some converting power, RDWAHAHB and you're OK
Joking, of course.
There have been some brilliant answers and hints in this thread, and now I finally have my recipe ready for the brewing day.

 

[smata67]

Both Crisp and Muntons have an Extra Pale Maris Otter.

 

[Shenanigans]

Unfortunately I can't directly compare to 2-row but it might be wort looking into Lager malt.
It should be the British version of European Pilsner malt and has a similar color to what you are looking for and is not as flavourfull as MO.

I use the version from Swaen when brewing American beers that ask for 2-row.
They also have a Pilsner malt so their Lager malt should be signifficantly different.

Swaen-Lager.pdf (theswaen.com)