What Would You Do - Old WLP540

[Gytaryst]

I'm brewing a Tripel sometime next week. I was planning to use WLP530. When i got to the LHBS he didn't have any WLP530, but he had WLP540 - MFG: Nov 09 17, (197 days old - Brewers Friend Pitch Rate calculator puts the viability at 0%). I told him I'd rather stick with WLP530 and asked when he thought he'd be getting it in. He said "At least 5 to 6 weeks, if then even." I pointed out that the yeast was past it's prime and he pulled out another packet MFG: Feb 28 18, (86 days old - 40% viability). He told me he'd sell me both packs for the price of one. It seemed like a good idea at the time - I didn't feel like driving all over town to see what the other shops had, so I bought it.

Now I'm reading reviews and it seems to be a pretty finicky yeast. Brewers Friend calculator says I can should be able to get 470 billion cells with a 3L starter from the newer pack. I figured I'd throw the other pack in just for insurance.

But to be honest I'm now wondering if I just want to take the $8 hit and see if I can track down some fresher WLP530 somewhere.

Curious to get some feedback on what you'd do.

 

[BobBailey]

The main reason I switched to using dry yeast almost exclusively. Got tired of not being able to find reasonably fresh liquid yeast. I brew mostly APAs, IPAs and a few lagers, so don't have a problem with selection. I understand that both Fermentis and Lallemand have some Belgian strains now. Dry yeast has come a long way in quality and selection over the last few years.

 

[JohnSand]

I would make the starter using both packs. If it takes off as normal, pitch it. Even the old pack isn't really at 0%, yeast calculators are very conservative.

 

[Gytaryst]

The main reason I switched to using dry yeast almost exclusively. Got tired of not being able to find reasonably fresh liquid yeast. I brew mostly APAs, IPAs and a few lagers, so don't have a problem with selection. I understand that both Fermentis and Lallemand have some Belgian strains now. Dry yeast has come a long way in quality and selection over the last few years.

I've used dry yeast on a lot of other ales but I'm picky about Belgians and I'm not comfortable with the glaring lack of information available for dry yeast. I'm sure it's "come a long way" but liquid yeast still seems to be BY FAR a lot more popular and therefore there is a ton of information, (anecdotal and factual), to be found. The manufacturers of dry yeast are vague and what information I have been able to find wasn't pertinent to my concerns. Pretty much everything was anecdotal based on just one brew.

I spend a lot more for ingredients on Belgians, and when I say "Belgian" I'm referring to big Trappist/Abbaye style ales - usually 8% abv or more. With those, the yeast is the star of the show, plus they have to age a lot longer to develop. So for those reasons I'm not so quick to just dump any ole yeast in and cross my fingers.

I would make the starter using both packs. If it takes off as normal, pitch it. Even the old pack isn't really at 0%, yeast calculators are very conservative.

Yeah. The Tripel I'm planning is 84% Pilsen malt and 16% Candi Syrup. I guess I'm being kind of a wuss about risking it to a yeast strain I've never used - but I'm cheap.

 

[JohnSand]

Look at it as an opportunity to experiment.

 

[z-bob]

I've used year-old Wyeast packs before. They took almost a week to wake up after I smacked them, then worked just fine. And that was w/o making a starter. (if I do that again, I will use a starter)

White candi syrup, right? If it was me, I'd probably make a starter with the '540. Save the fancy syrup for another time and make the tripel using white sugar instead (I'm cheap too!) and pitch the WLP540 at peak activity.

I understand what you're saying about time being your biggest investment here, but 540 is a Trappist yeast

 

[dmtaylor]

WLP540 is unlikely to be very good for a tripel. For one thing, it tends to accentuate (or generate?) raisin & dark fruit flavors. For another thing, genetically it's actually more like an English strain than a Belgian.

"WLP540, the ‘Rochefort’ strain, appears to be of British origin (POF- as well), and not related to other Trappist strains.....

I wonder if this originated from a british brewery...

Also, they used to say on this strain “An authentic Trappist style yeast. ” which is now removed, I don’t know if trappist is a trademarked name thus they can’t use it any more or if the origin made them change it."

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=3919

@z-bob, "You cannot make authentic guacamole out of lima beans and Ritz crackers." --Peggy Hill

Maybe you should just make a dubbel instead. That would be yummy. Or a quad.

 

[z-bob]

WLP540 is unlikely to be very good for a tripel. For one thing, it tends to accentuate (or generate?) raisin & dark fruit flavors. For another thing, genetically it's actually more like an English strain than a Belgian.

"WLP540, the ‘Rochefort’ strain, appears to be of British origin (POF- as well), and not related to other Trappist strains.....

I wonder if this originated from a british brewery...

Also, they used to say on this strain “An authentic Trappist style yeast. ” which is now removed, I don’t know if trappist is a trademarked name thus they can’t use it any more or if the origin made them change it."

http://beer.suregork.com/?p=3919

I have an old packet of Wyeast 1762 in my fridge -- also Rochefort. (I'm not sure why I bought it) What is it good for, a dubbel? Or a half-strength dubbel "patersbier"? Or brew something English with it?

Edit: "Maybe you should just make a dubbel instead. That would be yummy. Or a quad." I've got all the fixin's for that, even a pound of D-90 syrup. Too many beers on my todo list to ever get to them all

 

[dmtaylor]

I have an old packet of Wyeast 1762 in my fridge -- also Rochefort. (I'm not sure why I bought it) What is it good for, a dubbel? Or a half-strength dubbel "patersbier"? Or brew something English with it?

Beats me. I would reserve it only for Rochefort clones, or *maybe* try it for English styles like an ESB or barleywine or something, based on what I know now.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have an old packet of Wyeast 1762 in my fridge -- also Rochefort. (I'm not sure why I bought it) What is it good for, a dubbel? Or a half-strength dubbel "patersbier"? Or brew something English with it?

Edit: "Maybe you should just make a dubbel instead. That would be yummy. Or a quad." I've got all the fixin's for that, even a pound of D-90 syrup. Too many beers on my todo list to ever get to them all

WY1762 and WLP540 are the same yeast.

From Wyeast, WY1762:
An excellent yeast strain for use in Belgian dark strong ales. This strain has a relatively “clean profile” which allows a rich malt and distinctive ethanol character to shine. Delicate dried fruit esters can be produced when used at higher fermentation temperatures or in a high gravity wort.

I've used it a lot for stronger, maltier Belgians, even for Golden Strongs, Pauwel Kwak, etc. Goes up to 12% alcohol, without training. Not suitable for Triples, IMO.

A Quad takes aging, don't expect to drink those within 6 months.

If the pack is very old (over a year), I would smack it to break the nutrient bubble, then just pour the whole pouch into a 0.8-1.2 liter 1.020 starter wort. Let stir for a few days to a week until it gets a lot lighter in color. Crash, decant, and make a properly sized 1.040 starter from it. Save some out for a next starter, and pitch the rest.

 

[z-bob]

Thanks, I'll brew a Dubbel or an English Strong with it. Smack it and wait a day or two for it to come to life in a sterile environment, then pour into a flask of starter wort and see what happens. Probably step it up once like you said.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

WLP540 is unlikely to be very good for a tripel.

Well -some people call Rochefort 6 and 8 tripels, they may not be classic ones by Westmalle standards but whatever you call them, they're really nice beers. So if I was the OP I wouldn't sweat it, I'd just go ahead and use the WLP540 in whatever beer you were planning. It's a perfectly good yeast, that makes some of my favourite Belgian beers even if it isn't POF+.

I wonder if this originated from a british brewery...

Chimay helped Rochefort rebuild their brewery after WWII, but for whatever reason they didn't get on with the Chimay yeast and they got a new one from the Palm yeast bank in the 1960s, it seems to be related to the likes of Ringwood but has obviously adapted to higher ABVs.

they used to say on this strain “An authentic Trappist style yeast. ” which is now removed, I don’t know if trappist is a trademarked name thus they can’t use it any more or if the origin made them change it."

No - that's a general thing the Trappists have got the yeast companies to remove any reference to Trappism across the board, hence eg WLP500 is now called Monastery Ale.

 

[dmtaylor]

To be clear, the second and third quotes above are not from me, but from someone by the name of Weehee on @suregork 's site. I was pretty sure about the British origin, but wasn't sure about the "Trappist" thing. @Northern_Brewer 's response makes sense too.

 

[stosh]

Look at it as an opportunity to experiment.

I like the idea of using it as a chance to experiment and that's how I approached my old yeast situation

I used some Omega West Coast that was over a year old last weekend for my barley wine. I used a 1L starter that I stepped up once. Also picked up a fresh pack just in case (and b/c I brewed another BW this weekend)

The 1 year old did just fine. Had airlock bubbles in less than 8 hours. In fact I needed a blow off line.