What to do... BIAB or build a Mash Tun?

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HomeBrewMaster

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Hey guy I have been doing lots of research into all grain brewing and it has been a roller coaster of ideas starting with me just build the round 10 gallon cooler with all the bells and whistles. But then I decided that I don't have the money to invest into that. Then I got all excited for BIAB. Not sure where I would get the bag from yet. And then I realized I have a large clean never used rectangle cooler I could convert.

So what would you guys do? Here is the cooler.
ImageUploadedByHome Brew1408996862.130801.jpg


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It's a simpler process and requires less equipment. Assuming you already have a kettle that is large enough and a way to cool your wort, both of which are required whether you decide to go with BIAB or a traditional MLT setup, then all you need is a bag, which, incidentally, forum member Wilserbrewer can hook you up with.

Let me also add: I like to do step mashes when they are appropriate and doing that with a cooler MLT is a royal pain. With BIAB, you can fire up the burner and step mash away.
 
Ahh yes I do have a 15 gallon kettle with built in thermometer and ball valve with an outdoor burner and a wort chiller.

So I guess BIAB is just a simpler and time saving way to do all grain then. Are you aware if anyone on the site ships to Canada?

And on a completely different side note does anyone know if I can just cut down one of my thermometers? I have two 6" for my kettle and it tends to get in the way. I am sure they will be a pain for BIAB. I was wondering if I could cut one of them down to 2"?


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Wilserbrewer ships to Canada, though the shipping is a bit more. I don't have one of his bags, but they get rave reviews, so I don't think you will be disappointed.

http://biabbags.webs.com/

I don't know if you can cut the thermometer probe down or if that will ruin it. If I had to guess, I'd say probably not. I'd remove them altogether from the kettle, plug the ports, and just go with a handheld thermometer. I use a Thermapen myself, but they are kinda pricey.

If you don't want to shell out the bucks for a Thermapen, I hear this one from the same manufacturer works pretty well and is much more reasonably priced.
 
I started doing BIAB thinking it was a stepping stone to 3-vessel all grain, but it works so well I have never been tempted to change my process, after about 50 BIAB batches. I really can't think of anything I'd be able to do with a more complex system, and it just seems like a lot more work. I am toying with moving up to a 25-gallon pot to do larger BIAB batches, though.
 
BIAB is extremely versatile, and simple. It requires a single pot and a bag........That's all. I've been doing BIAB from my first all grain brew. Once or twice considered doing a mash tun, but my efficiency is right there in the high 80's to low 90's. It doesn't get much better than that

Since I discovered that with fine crush, which will not work well in a conventional mash tun, I can do a mash in 5 minutes!!, the idea of making a complex system with a mash tun, sparge arm, pump, etc is beyond absurd!! My test the other day yielded 100% conversion of starches in a mere 5 minutes, and that is NO BS!! I can't imagine ever doing an hour mash, much less conventional mash and sparge again. It took me 6 months and 26 brews to figure that out. People have been criticizing me for brewing "too fast", because I've cut my time down from 4.5 hours for a brew to under 2 hours! Brewing isn't supposed to be any fun if you can do it in 2 hours........ Like 3 minute sex!

All these three tier RIMS and HERMS systems are impressive to look at........ and I was impressed and envious. I'm neither anymore. BIAB is all you need, unless your objective is to impress people. There is at least one microbrewery that is going to BIAB. It hugely simplifies brewing.

H.W.
 
Get a paint strainer bag from homedepot for three dollars and give BIAB a try. You can even do it in your cooler. Let's you give it a try for almost no investment.

I started that way and then eventually went to making a round cooler mash tun. I did it mostly because I like to tinker and build things. And I do get less grain fines in my wort


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I vote for converting the cooler. I have done both BIAB and batch sparge in a 10 gallon water cooler.

I for one do not like doing BIAB. With out working out a lift system you have a hot, heavy, sticky, messy bag to deal with.
 
LJvermonster said:
Don't you need to buy more grains up front for the BIAB? There has to be a down side otherwise everyone would do it.
Click to expand...

Yes, assuming you can get better than 80% efficiency batch sparging in a cooler. Otherwise, no. Most of the time, BIAB will require LESS grain than traditional MLT due to the fact that you can really go to town on the crush.
 
When BIABing, must the grain bag maintain contact with the wort, to reduce the chance of oxidation? To date I have not done that, I have had the grain bag above the pot and draining down into the wort below.
 
When I started AG I did BIAB and I loved it, the downside for me was the lifting and holding of hot wort and a bit more messy, I did a dunk sparge in a smaller pot and squeezed the bag which if your not careful would spill. I went to a 3 vessel system because I wanted to do 10 gallon batches and not deal with lifting 30lbs of wet grain (or more on a big beer). I have a gravity system now and the only mess is when I have a boil over (when I'm not paying attention.

I think BIAB is a fantastic way to start AG and paint strainer bags from the hardware store are cheap. Give it a try.
 
When I have done BIAB, 3 gallon batches, I have lifted the bag out of the wort and sparged by pouring hot water through the grain while suspended. Then I squeeze as much out of the grain as possible.

I have read some that say hot side aeration is a problem but much more that say that it is a myth. I have done nothing to minimize hot side aeration and have not noticed any effects.
 
LJvermonster said:
Don't you need to buy more grains up front for the BIAB? There has to be a down side otherwise everyone would do it.
Click to expand...


Nope...

I get the same or better extract yield from my BIAB system then I did with my cooler MLT once I got my crush tight enough.

I moved from a 3V batch sparge system to BIAB and I'm not looking back. I've shaved a solid hour off my brew day.




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Having done both, I see no downside to BIAB for the starting all-grain brewer, with the exception that kh54s10 mentioned. However, I found that it was pretty easy to find something in my garage that worked well to hang the bag (I settled on a 6" aluminum a-frame ladder and an old tree stake I had sitting around).

That said, I also built a mash-tun (100 qt marine cooler with CPVC manifold), so that I could do some bigger batches. But it was mostly a matter of wanting to maximize the efficiency of my fermenters, as I have a couple 30l pails, and I couldn't mash a big enough grainbill in my pot to fill that pail.
 
LJvermonster said:
Don't you need to buy more grains up front for the BIAB? There has to be a down side otherwise everyone would do it.
Click to expand...


Nope...

I moved from a 3v batch sparge system to BIAB and am not going back. I get better conversion yield, fewer system losses and save ~1 hour on my standard brew day.


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HomebrewCraig said:
When BIABing, must the grain bag maintain contact with the wort, to reduce the chance of oxidation? To date I have not done that, I have had the grain bag above the pot and draining down into the wort below.
Click to expand...


How are you going to mash without the grain bag in the water? Put the bag in the water, add grains mash, remove bag and let it drain.
 
Really? Did you think I'd brewed BIAB up til now by sheer force of will, telepathically compelling the starch to convert to sugar and fall into the kettle of hot water?

After the grains have successfully mashed with the grain bag in the water, and once the mash has completed, does the hot, wet, sticky bag full of grains need to have contact with the wort to minimize oxidation? I've heard that hot-side aeration is a myth, but even so the myth had to have it's roots somewhere...
 
No, you don't need to be worried about HSA. It's not necessarily a myth, as it can be an issue in commercial brewing, but on the homebrew level, don't worry about it unless you are really going out of your way to introduce massive amounts of oxygen into your hot wort. All of us who brew BIAB raise the bag and let the wort drain rather recklessly and I can speak for myself when I say that I've never had an issue.
 
I would do 100 or so BIABs to see if you like it :) j/k .. but it will save u time, grain, water, and money, so by all means, start there. If I move up from 5 G batches, I will either go 3 vessel or a pulley to lift the bag, but I see no reason to move away from BIAB.
 
Erythro73 said:
While I don't doubt Wilserbrewer's bags are the best, 22.00$+14.00$ is expensive (although they are customized to your setup). If you don't want to spent 36.00$ for a bag, you can also check Ontario Beer Keg. They offer great service!

http://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/24_x_24_Mesh_Bag_with_Drawstring_Brew_in_a_Bag_p/24x24-mesh-biab.htm
http://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/29_x_29_Mesh_Bag_with_Drawstring_Brew_in_a_Bag_p/29x29-mesh-biab.htm
Click to expand...

Where is this on their site I order all the time from them and I can't seem to see it on there


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I recently did my first BIAB and did a write up of it here,

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/first-all-grain-biab-attempt-488295/

My brewhouse efficiency was 65% but I had predicted that so added and extra pound of base malt. Still cheaper that setting up a MLT and was nice and easy, I would recommend starting with BIAB.

Its such a great feeling at the end too, far more satisfying than extract with grain brewing
 
I consistently get efficiencies of between 85 & 90 percent, and often exceed 90. The key of course is having a very fine crush.......... which you can't do with a conventional mash or you'll get a stuck sparge. It increases efficiency, and reduces time. I'll repeat my latest mash time......... though I'm sure folks are tired of hearing it........ 5 minutes! Not an hour, not 45 minutes, not 30 minutes........... 5 minutes to full conversion. I challenge anybody to match that with a mash tun and sparge. The efficiency was my usual 88% or so. There is no argument that I can conceive of that would get me to go to a conventional mashing system. I can see absolutely zero advantage. The Barley Crusher is key to the whole thing. My second crush is with a spacing of .010.

H.W.
 
I have a Wilserbrewer BIAB and a Coleman picnic cooler mash tun.

BIAB pros/cons:
-only need one burner, one pot, and one bag
-one pot to deal with: clean up is a cinch, dumping grains is easy, bag goes in laundry after a quick rinse
-works best with 2x crushed grains so there is some extra time to do that
-tough to determine how much water is the right amount up front. I've used the software, etc. but I still find a lot of guess work involved
-no sparge means it takes less time
-I'm not really sure that the bags are 'food grade'

Cooler MLT pros/cons:
-batch sparging doesn't take very long and allows me to add just enough sparge water to nail my pre-boil gravity
-much less loss of temps during mashing
-requires HLT, Mash tun and boil kettle. Could be done with one burner, but easier with 2
-cooler IS food grade plastic
-sparging takes a little longer than BIAB (remember I saved time by not double crushing though), but I like the control much better
-clean up takes longer and is a bit of a pain to get cooler washed properly

Ultimately if you have the cooler, you can convert it like Denny Conn/Don Osborn for about $15. BIAB bag is as cheap as a $3 paint strainer or a $25 custom version. Ultimately you could be like me and do both for about $40 and then just decide which set up you want to use on any given day. If I'm short on time, BIAB it is. If I want more control over volumes, OG, etc - I pull out the cooler.
 
BIAB or cooler mash tun?

I do both, and find both work very well! I would be concerned that the 70 qt cooler the OP has proposed will be too large for medium to smallish five gallon batches?

The mesh bags sold by many retailers are a fairly coarse mesh type fabric and will let a lot of flour through the bag, polyester voile material is a much better choice IMHO. Making a bag is not that difficult if you have the skillset, and a sewing machine, hell one poster hand sewed a bag and reported good results.

To stitch a bag, simply emulate the shaping shown in my avatar, make the bag plenty large to line the entire kettle interior with enough to overlap the top rim of the kettle by several inches. Hemming the top of the bag will allow a drawstring if you choose. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific bag making questions, happy to help if I can...

Also, IMO a ratchet pulley greatly simplifies the BIAB process, allowing the bag to easily and neatly be removed from the kettle, and then allowing the bag to drain as it is suspended over the kettle. This greatly removes a lot of the downsides of BIAB brewing. I brew in a finished carpeted basement, and can easily BIAB large batches without spilling a drop by hoisting the bag above the kettle and allowing it to drain fully while the wort comes to boil, and then swinging the bag over and down to a rubbermaid tub placed directly adjacent and below the kettle.

My first MT was a cheap 28 qt cooler that I already owned, I drilled a hole and fitted it with a stainless braid and a length of tubing and it worked great!
Almost any cooler in the appropriate size will work as a MT.

Link below to a very simple, yet extremely effective and low cost batch sparge or full volume MT....

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/ten-minute-cooler-mash-tun-conversion-125108/

Cheers and hope this helps!
Many many simple ways to get this done, don't overthink it....
wilser

My apologies to the OP, shipping to Canada is expensive and requires a trip to my local post office.:(
However, I will extend a limited time offer to ship to Canada at the actual USPS charges, with a refund via paypal for any slight overage incurred.
Thanks for listening!
wilser
 
There are pros and "cons" to either method. Both will make great beer.

I've used a 10-gallon round Igloo cooler with bazooka tube and ball valve assembly for the past six years and it works great, for me. You could probably nab one on sale in the next couple months if you're trying to be cost conscious.

For me personally I prefer the cooler because it's easier to maintain temperature. I can walk away, have lunch, or do something for an hour while it mashes. Cleaning the cooler is very easy - I just dump the grains in the garbage, rinse out the cooler, and wipe it dry. Cleaning it takes less than 10 minutes.

The only concern that I would have with BIAB is the need to lift the wet, heavy bag of spent grain out of the pot for disposal. You can rig up several methods to make it mechanically easier and safer, but that seems more work, to me, than converting a cooler.
 
I never quite understand the objection to lifting the bag out of the wort. For a five gallon batch it weighs at most 30-35 lbs, which is quite easy to lift. I generally lift the bag out, then place my mash paddle and giant potato masher-type tool (actually a stainless mud mixing tool for drywall installers) across the top of the kettle, and put the bag on top of those, where it can drain into the kettle. From there, I can grab the kettle lid and use it to push down on the bag and squeeze out as much liquid as possible. This all takes about a minute, maybe, then I can dump the spent grain into the compost. Were I a sparger, I guess I'd just dunk into another vessel of hot water, or sprinkle some over the bag while it sat atop the kettle.
 
I think another expense to consider is some silicone gloves for BIAB as squeezing a 150 deg bag of grains can be painful with bare hands.
 
ong said:
I never quite understand the objection to lifting the bag out of the wort. For a five gallon batch it weighs at most 30-35 lbs, which is quite easy to lift. I generally lift the bag out, then place my mash paddle and giant potato masher-type tool (actually a stainless mud mixing tool for drywall installers) across the top of the kettle, and put the bag on top of those, where it can drain into the kettle. From there, I can grab the kettle lid and use it to push down on the bag and squeeze out as much liquid as possible. This all takes about a minute, maybe, then I can dump the spent grain into the compost. Were I a sparger, I guess I'd just dunk into another vessel of hot water, or sprinkle some over the bag while it sat atop the kettle.
Click to expand...


30-35 pounds might not seem like a lot to you, but I think it is HEAVY. I always seem to drip some wort outside the pot. To me it is a hot heavy sticky messy proposition. I would much rather take my 10 pounds or so of damp grain, in the mash tun, to the compost pile and dump it. No bag to clean either.
 
So you need a good mill in order to further crush grains if you order them online? I am a cooler MTL guy myself and have enjoyed my results but if I can save an hour off the process I am no dummy.

What mill does everyone use to grind the grains?
 
LJvermonster said:
So you need a good mill in order to further crush grains if you order them online? I am a cooler MTL guy myself and have enjoyed my results but if I can save an hour off the process I am no dummy.

What mill does everyone use to grind the grains?
Click to expand...

If you batch sparge there is little time difference.

1 hour mash (both) Sparge 10 - 20 minutes (both?) boil 60 minutes (both)

Mill can be any type, 2 roller mill, 3 roller mill, Corona style. You can set up for a fine crush or run the grain through twice.

Many LHBS's will run it through twice for you.
 
Owly055 said:
I consistently get efficiencies of between 85 & 90 percent, and often exceed 90. The key of course is having a very fine crush.......... which you can't do with a conventional mash or you'll get a stuck sparge. It increases efficiency, and reduces time. I'll repeat my latest mash time......... though I'm sure folks are tired of hearing it........ 5 minutes! Not an hour, not 45 minutes, not 30 minutes........... 5 minutes to full conversion. I challenge anybody to match that with a mash tun and sparge. The efficiency was my usual 88% or so. There is no argument that I can conceive of that would get me to go to a conventional mashing system. I can see absolutely zero advantage. The Barley Crusher is key to the whole thing. My second crush is with a spacing of .010.

H.W.
Click to expand...
So You do 2 crushes with a barley crusher?
 
I'm graduating to some form of AG this week....Does the boil pot factor into your decision to either do AG or BIAB? Picking up a Turkey Fryer today w/a 7.5 gallon boil pot. I have the MLT already, which can hold up to 10 gallons, but like the ease of BIAB.

Can you do BIAB with 7.5 pot or is that limiting in what you can do?
 
alby44 said:
Can you do BIAB with 7.5 pot or is that limiting in what you can do?
Click to expand...

Yes you can, depending on the size of the grain bill, you may need to add a simple sparge step, either a dunk / batch sparge in another bucket or vessel, or a pour over / fly type sparge pouring sparge water over and through the grain bag above the kettle.
 

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