What to do... BIAB or build a Mash Tun?

[divrguy]

Personally, I would build the tun and do BIAB....because that's what I do now. Both. I think a lot of folks get caught into thinking that their way of doing things is the best way and it might be for them. If you have tried every way to brew beer and you like a certain way.... do it. I some times put my BIAB wort into a mash tun that used to be for batch sparging that has a bazooka screen and false bottom setup and line it with a wilserbrewer bag because it holds my temp better when it's freezing outside. Then I can just lift the bag and dump after it's drained. Some times, I use my sleeping bag to wrap the 15 gallon pot because I feel like it and it works great too! Sometimes I don't lift the bag and squeeze, I just drain and dump....(usually because it's close enough) Sometimes... I just go to Bevmo and buy all sorts of beer... While I'm brewing... Lol. RDWHAHB


Cheers!

 

[Skarekrough]

All grain is all grain.

With traditional MLT brewing, you drain the wort from the grain. With BIAB, you remove the grains from the wort. Other than that, they are the same process.

With AG I don't ever recall having to lift a scalding hot wet bag of grains.

 

[LLBeanJ]

With BIAB, I don't ever recall having to use rice hulls or attempting to free a stuck mash. If fact, the possibility of a stuck mash doesn't exist in my world.

We can go back and forth all day about which process is better, but there is no right answer. It's a personal choice and both processes start with grain and result in wort in the fermenter at the end of the day, which was the point I was making. If having "to lift a scalding hot wet bag of grains" is unsettling to you, that's okay because there is another way and you are free to make your choice, as am I. Both methods have their pros and cons and it's up to each of us to decide which carry the most weight.

With MLT I don't ever recall having to lift a scalding hot wet bag of grains.

FIFY

 

[Skarekrough]

With BIAB, I don't ever recall having to use rice hulls or attempting to free a stuck mash. If fact, the possibility of a stuck mash doesn't exist in my world.

We can go back and forth all day about which process is better, but there is no right answer. It's a personal choice and both processes start with grain and result in wort in the fermenter at the end of the day, which was the point I was making. If having "to lift a scalding hot wet bag of grains" is unsettling to you, that's okay because there is another way and you are free to make your choice, as am I. Both methods have their pros and cons and it's up to each of us to decide which carry the most weight.

I agree.

I know plenty of folks who brew BIAB almost exclusively. Some of them make great beer too.

But to me crafting beer is, alot of times, about the learning process. And not just making my own beer. It's about learning how others that do it on a professional level achieve the results they do. None of those great breweries are using BIAB.

My statement stands; BIAB is a process that was designed to be a substitute for All Grain Brewing. With the prevalence of all grain in both craft and large scale breweries you're having to adapt their process to yours make it work. If you like the challenge then great. But if you're looking to advise someone on the path of least resistance then you're not going to be able to beat the All Grain method over BIAB.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Well, that's all understandable. Not everyone shares the same goals.

For me, it's all about making beer from grain (as opposed to extract) and in my head, BIAB is far and away easier and less equipment heavy than the traditional mash-lauter method, especially since I often step-mash. I also understand that not every homebrewer shares my opinion. No problem. You do it your way and I'll do it mine and we can agree to disagree as to which method is superior, at least at the homebrew level.

 

[KeninMN]

Yes, but that is not a hard and fast rule. One could just as easily mash with 100% of the brewing water using a standalone mash tun and get the same results. Conversely, a brewer could mash at 1.25 qts/lb doing BIAB and sparge the rest. In the end, it makes no difference other than how do we get the wort out of the grains and into the boil kettle.

That's what I do. MIAB...

 

[Minbari]

I agree.

I know plenty of folks who brew BIAB almost exclusively. Some of them make great beer too.

But to me crafting beer is, alot of times, about the learning process. And not just making my own beer. It's about learning how others that do it on a professional level achieve the results they do. None of those great breweries are using BIAB.

My statement stands; BIAB is a process that was designed to be a substitute for All Grain Brewing. With the prevalence of all grain in both craft and large scale breweries you're having to adapt their process to yours make it work. If you like the challenge then great. But if you're looking to advise someone on the path of least resistance then you're not going to be able to beat the All Grain method over BIAB.

sorry but that argument doesnt hold water ( or beer) would be like telling my wife that making burgers two at a time in a frying pan is no way to cook since McDonald's cooks them 12 at time.

what works for a large scale business is not always feasible in small scale. in the end the process is really not ANY different. you are taking crushed grain, soaking it in heated water and draining off the sugary water. people get the same efficiency for both methods.

 

[Roundhouse]

I don't see one as being any more or less viable than the other. Just different. It's hard to argue with the simplicity of BIAB. I personally use a mash tun now but then again I'm doing decoction mashes from time to time too and many would argue against the benefits of that. I've gotten 75% mash efficiency with infusion mashing in a mash tun and as high as 90%. With BIAB I've gotten around 82-83% so strangely enough they aren't all that far off from each other if you know what you are doing.

I am personally not a fan of lifting a bag full of grain out of my keggle but then again I also never rigged up a pulley system overhead. That would make things immensely easier. A kettle instead of a converted keg would also be much easier since the opening on the keggle is smaller in diameter than the keg itself. This can be challenging trying to squeeze the bag through a smaller opening than it has been expanded for. None of this is the fault of BIAB but rather my particular setup. Indeed if I were starting all over again with all grain I'd probably do a dedicated single vessel BIAB style build with a pump like so many others have here.

One thing I've learned in engineering is that don't ever try to justify something by saying "it's always been done that way" or by saying that someone else does it that way or that it must have been done that way for a reason. This doesn't promote advancement but instead justifies the status quo or rather in some ways, mediocrity. The best innovations come about from a clean sheet way of thinking where we look at what we have and look at what the end goal is and then design the easiest way to get there. It sometimes can look very different from convention but if it works, don't question it. Perhaps it doesn't work any better or worse than any other way. At the end of the day it's just a different path to the same goal. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't really matter what the large scale brewers are doing. We aren't using wort strippers, steam heating, or pumped mash filters while many of them are. We are using pots and scoops and coolers and propane burners, etc... Design around YOUR needs.

 

[BroStefan]

This is how I think about it.

All grain is all grain. MLT or BIAB are both AG mashing.

Every brewer designs his/her/their system to meet goals that make sense to them.

I've been brewing and evolving my system around these goals.

Making a very high quality wort resulting in great beer.

Consistent repeatable process.

Time efficiency and space efficiency.

EDIT: ability to do 10 gal batches of standard strength beers and 5 gal batches of high gravity beers

Based on these design goals I'm plenty happy with my BIAB system.

The question is not "which is better," but "which is a better implantation of your design goals."




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[Owly055]

I agree.

I know plenty of folks who brew BIAB almost exclusively. Some of them make great beer too.

But to me crafting beer is, alot of times, about the learning process. And not just making my own beer. It's about learning how others that do it on a professional level achieve the results they do. None of those great breweries are using BIAB.

My statement stands; BIAB is a process that was designed to be a substitute for All Grain Brewing. With the prevalence of all grain in both craft and large scale breweries you're having to adapt their process to yours make it work. If you like the challenge then great. But if you're looking to advise someone on the path of least resistance then you're not going to be able to beat the All Grain method over BIAB.

It's kind of absurd to make the comparison of processes based on what commercial breweries are using . My microbrewery friend (owner) uses many 50 pound bags of malt in a single brew. Can you imagine the bag that could handle that much wet grain?? It's kind of a specious argument. BIAB is relatively new, and most of the long time brewers are used to working with mash and sparge equipment, and have a lot invested in it. As a result it has the aura of being "the way pros so it".

Perhaps it would be a good topic for a "reality tv" show. Give the pros a pot, a burner, a bag, malt and hops, and turn them loose to make the best beer they can under those limitations. Limits, are often what brings out the most creativity in people. I thoroughly enjoy being in a situation where I have only a few options to brew with.

H.W.

 

[dirtybulkales]

I do both and I personally find BIAB alot easier.
I only ever use the Mash Tun for Doubles or when I do Strong ales.

My BIAB method is to simply do everything the same as you would with a mash tun.
EG;
>Raise temp for mashout process
>Recirculate your wort after 45/60 mins for even distribution of temp.
> Same process with Sparged wort

I guess I am doing BIAB as if an All Grain brewer would use a Mash Tun?

Cheers,

 

[Skarekrough]

It's kind of absurd to make the comparison of processes based on what commercial breweries are using

Um, not it isn't.

If it was then books like "Brew Like A Monk" wouldn't exist and certainly wouldn't be as popular as they are.

Books like that sell so well because when we look to craft at home we try and draw lessons and processes learned from the professionals.

 

[BroStefan]

Um, not it isn't.



If it was then books like "Brew Like A Monk" wouldn't exist and certainly wouldn't be as popular as they are.



Books like that sell so well because when we look to craft at home we try and draw lessons and processes learned from the professionals.

But nobody is able to copy someone's process exactly into their brewing practice. There are just too many variables. We have to adapt to some extent or other - "to draw lessons" as you said.

Fermentation is the key. I've read Brew Like a Monk in detailed information on fermentation practices and my Belgians have gotten much better.


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[wingedcoyote]

I do BIAB exclusively and I love the simplicity and get fine efficiency, but I am planning to buy a cooler pretty soon. Mostly because I have issues with holding mash temp with BIAB -- even with all the blankets in the house I seem to lose 5+ degrees over an hour. No idea if that's affecting my beer, but it bugs me. I have tried the kettle in the oven trick, and the design of my oven unfortunately makes it unworkable. I also only have a 5-gallon kettle, which is great for boiling my 2.5-gallon batches but a little small for mashing some of them, and a 10-gal cooler is a lot cheaper than a 10-gal kettle.

I'm still going to do full-volume mashing, as it's worked great for me so far -- in fact, this should let me do full-volume for recipes where I've needed the awkward colander sparge before. And I'll probably stick with the bag and just treat the cooler as a big BIAB pot.

 

[LLBrewer]

Get the best of both worlds and line a cooler with a grain bag and then batch sparge. This is what I do and I'm convinced its the best method for me. I can easily hold my mash temp due to the cooler, I don't need to vorlouf due to the bag and I never have a stuck sparge. Because I don't worry about grain getting into the kettle I constantly stir the mash as I'm sparging. I think this helps with efficiency although for ~$2.00/lb of base malt I always buy an extra pound just in case. I can really reap the benefits of this method if I ever get a mill.

 

[gezzanet]

I was thinking of doing this also. I originally was going to setup a 3 v rig but after reading about the time savings in Biab I am setting up a keggle for it. I had already ordered a 10 gallon igloo cooler. So maybe the bag in the cooler is the go. Then again a temp control pid setup on the keggle for mashing would mean no need for the cooler at all. Suppose the cooler would be the option if you were gas only.


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[BroStefan]

.Suppose the cooler would be the option if you were gas only.


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My dear wife gave me a Tower of Power control unit for my gas Direct fired BIAB setup. She is very cool.

Before this I recirculated and cycled the burner manually. Boring but effective.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I was thinking of doing this also. I originally was going to setup a 3 v rig but after reading about the time savings in Biab I am setting up a keggle for it. I had already ordered a 10 gallon igloo cooler. So maybe the bag in the cooler is the go. Then again a temp control pid setup on the keggle for mashing would mean no need for the cooler at all. Suppose the cooler would be the option if you were gas only.


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A bag for a keggle and a 10 gallon round cooler are about the same size, so you could try either or both. I like to BIAB, but also do 3v with using a Cooler MT. It's nice to mix it up and not be too rigid IMO.


Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[gezzanet]

Tower of power does look pretty cool. Looks like you can control whatever you want with it. Bit out of my league for now but stashed in the memory bank for future.


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[timpoulsen]

I like the system jkarp put together and am about finished with my system similar but for 5 gallon batches. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/countertop-brutus-20-a-131411/

 

[copper2hopper]

Can anyone give me some advice on the stage of post boil with BIAB. I have done two batches and have found that the wort pre-boil is very cloudy and contributes to an even cloudier post boil after the hop additions. I did the hops in muslin bags. So at post boil and when cooling with my submersion chiller I like to whirlpool stir with it so that there will be a nice pooling of trub in the center on the bottom. How long should I let that cooled to pitching temperature wort sit in the kettle so that all the nasty's settle to the bottom? Whats the average wait time on that?

 

[Peruvian802]

^^^15 minutes, copper.

 

[Black Island Brewer]

Can anyone give me some advice on the stage of post boil with BIAB. I have done two batches and have found that the wort pre-boil is very cloudy and contributes to an even cloudier post boil after the hop additions. I did the hops in muslin bags. So at post boil and when cooling with my submersion chiller I like to whirlpool stir with it so that there will be a nice pooling of trub in the center on the bottom. How long should I let that cooled to pitching temperature wort sit in the kettle so that all the nasty's settle to the bottom? Whats the average wait time on that?

Okay, so I've only done 3 BIAB batches (but dozens of three-vessel) and I've done a few things to get clearer wort into the fermentor with BIAB:
1) adjusted my recipe to leave more in the kettle so I can cut off the flow when I get to the trub
2) add whirlfloc to the boil
3) chill rapidly to get cold-break
4) whirlpool and settle for at least 20 minutes.

 

[nzbrew]

I have found with BIAB whirlpooling is pretty much a waste of time, as there is too much lightweight 'trub' in there. I just put the whole lot in the fermentor, it settles out and compacts nicely in a few days.