What should fresh Farmhouse Cheddar taste like?

[BrooklynTrout]

Hi All,

I'm new to the hobby and still trying to make a decent flavored cheese. I just took my third farmhouse cheddar out of the press.

The first cheese I made didn't set a clean break, but I was able to get curds anyway. It had a lot of moisture and produced a ton of brown and green mold under the wax, so it got tossed. It tasted sour and acidic.

The second cheese looked beautiful, but also took extra time to curdle. I wanted to taste it with only a little aging to make sure I was doing things correctly before moving on. It only aged a month in a cold refrigerator. While it had a nice, slightly crumbly texture, it also tasted bland with an acidic, spoiled milk aftertaste. It sort of tasted like really cheap cheese. This cheese also had required some extra time to set up.

For the third attempt, I tried to eliminate all possible causes of bad taste. I boiled everything in the entire kitchen. I purchased some really expensive slow pasteurized, non-homogenized milk. I used a double-boiler. I followed the instructions to the T. Even still, the milk took an extra 15 minutes to set. I got a bit of whey at the bottom of the bowl while milling and adding salt. I'm not sure if that is normal. The curds tasted bland, but not sour, so I was hopeful.

I pressed and now the cheese is drying. I cut a piece off to sample before waxing and ONCE AGAIN (dangit!) there is a sour after taste. So my question is why? Here are my ideas:

- The taste is normal and the cheese just needs to age
- Despite my cleanliness, I'm getting other bacteria in there.
- There is excess acid developing because the milk takes a long time to set
- I'm not cooking the curds until they are hard enough, trapping too much moisture
- Something else?

What should fresh, un-aged cheddar taste like anyways?

I'm really appreciative of any advice. I plan on making farmhouse cheddar again and again until it tastes good or my wife locks me up.



Sean

 

[Yooper]

An extra 15 minutes to form a clean break isn't a big deal at all. If it takes an extra day, then maybe you could be concerned.

The sour and acidic comes from the ph of the cheese. It's very acidic, and not really great tasting until it ages. Soft cheeses tend to have a higher ph and are ready to eat sooner.

It sounds like you'll be fine with this farmhouse cheddar. Just like with beer, it needs time to come around.

 

[BrooklynTrout]

Thanks for advice. I plan to wax it and store in in a Tupperware bin with some wet paper towels in the veggie drawer. I'll post again when I finally taste it.

 

[brewmonger]

Fresh cheddar should taste like cheese curds, because that is exactly what fresh cheese curds are.

The sour taste is probably happening because of too much acid development. There is probably too much moisture, and thus too much lactose, left in the curd. Once you reach your final cook temperature, you can keep stirring the curds (this is called "stirring out the curds") to continue drying them up before you drain off the whey and start cheddaring.

It is perfectly normal, and in fact necessary, to have whey continue draining out of the curds while cheddaring, as well as after milling and salting.

Another possible source of the sourness is not enough salt to interrupt the acid development, but I'm betting the problem is that you aren't stirring out the curds enough.

 

[brewmonger]

One final thing-

Don't be afraid of mold. External mold is perfectly ok, because it will form a rind and once you open the cheese you will cut off the rind anyways. I don't use wax at all, but a natural lard without any preservatives which is eventually colonized and consumed by native molds. This is how cheddar was made in the olden days -- wrapped in a cloth bandage, larded when it goes into the cellar, and allowed to form a natural mold crust.

 

[BrooklynTrout]

brewmonger,

RE: "Stirring out the curds" - Thanks for the tip. I have been stirring while heating up to 100 degrees, but then just letting it sit at that temperature.

RE: Mold - The first cheese had some green mold spots and also some large brown patches. I'm not sure if those were mold or rot. The green patches smelled like blues cheese, which of course makes sense. I cut it all off and tasted the cheese, but it was really sour.

RE: Whey draining during milling - That's good to know. It's really hard to know what is "normal" about a 3 hour food preparation process from a one page recipe.

I really appreciate your tips! I'm going to age the current cheese even though it is a bit tangy. I plan to make yet another farmhouse cheddar this week and stir the curds during the cooking. My curds tend to look like brains when poured into the colander, rather than a pile of rice like I've seen in some pictures.

Another question, that I guess could be another post, is there any difference between pure kosher salt and flake cheese salt?

Thanks!
Sean

PS While I don't brew beer, I do drink a few while making cheese, so I am grateful to the brew-meisters of this forum for both their art and for including a cheese making section.

 

[beachgirl]

Sorry - I posted twice, by mistake, so it seems I have to write this rather than erase.

 

[beachgirl]

As per salt: as long as there is nothing added to the salt (Morton's Kosher has an anti-caking ingredient, so can't be used for cheese, while Diamond's Kosher does not & can be), the only appreciable difference is in the size of the crystals, which is basically immaterial...EXCEPT that the kosher salt has bigger crystals, & so takes up more room. That means, the equivalent of a teaspoon of cheese salt is 2 teaspoons of Diamond Kosher.

Here's a great link that may help you with some of the problems you have had making cheese...it is in a list form, with the reasons right under, so you don't have to wade through a lot of writing to find what you need! 😊 http://hoeggerfarmyard.com/the-farmyard/cheese-making/common-problems-and-solutions/

One of your problems may be because you are aging your cheese too cold - cheddars usually age best around 50-54 degrees Fahrenheit, so a wine fridge is your best bet in lieu of a limestone cave in France!

Ricki Carroll, known as the "Cheese Queen" (www.cheesemaking.com), has a book titled, "Home Cheese Making", that is a terrific basic intro to...making cheese at home! (Go figure...) I read it twice (well, not the recipes!) before I commenced making aged cheese, & the info garnered prevented many errors; had I only a recipe on a piece of paper, I know my cheeses would have been flops. There is much, much to learn before you follow a cheese recipe. Another fabulous book, which is sort of the next step after Ricki's book, is "The Joy of Cheesemaking", by Jody Farnham and Marc Druart. (I PROMISE you I don't receive kickbacks!)

A further issue that I just thought about could be your milk. "Home Cheese Making", as well as Ricki's website, have great information about milk & which milks are appropriate for cheese. You'll be shocked at how much there is to know about that white stuff! 😊 Rule 1: ultra-pasteurized (UP Milk) will not make curds. The high heat at which it is pasteurized denatures the proteins (&#128543, so they cannot curdle. That rules out most organic milk found in grocery stores. If there is a Harris Teeter near you, check their store brand organic milk - here in FL, the gallons aren't ultra pasteurized, but the half-gallons are! So, when I can't get raw milk, I use their gallon-sized organic.

I hope this has been of some help - good luck!!!

 

[arkansascontrols]

Hello Cheesemakers!

I'm brand new to cheese making. I ordered a kit online and decided to dive right in with Farmhouse Cheddar as my first cheese. I read the Home Cheese Making by Ricki Carrol book cover to cover a couple of times and watched a few Youtube videos before beginning and I am pleased to say that I have something resembling a wheel of cheese air drying on my counter top as I write this. I'm not sure what I have will actually BE cheese, but I am hopeful. I thought I would share what I did along with a few pics in case someone else wants to see. I have looked in vain for some step by step journals with photos and haven't been able to find any so maybe this will be of some use to someone.


---
My First Farmhouse Cheddar
January 22, 2016

1 gallon whole milk
1 packet mesophilic direct set culture
¼ tablet Rennet diluted in 3 Tbl water

Nailed the 90f and held it pretty well. Temp creeped up to around 94-95 for a little while, but I was able to get it reined in pretty quickly and found the sweet spot on my 2 burner electric hotplate to hold it at 90. Yes you read that right I did this on a hotplate! Hey, it's what I have, don't judge!

I wasn’t 100% certain about the pasteurization of the milk so I added the sodium chloride just to be safe. Added the starter and let ‘er sit on the burner at 90 for 45 minutes.

Added the rennet and stirred as per Ricki’s instructions. Covered the pot and again let it sit for 45 minutes checking the temp periodically to make sure it didn’t creep up. Might have hit 92 or so for a brief time, adjusted the pot off the burner a little and held it pretty close for the duration.

Got a clean break in the curd after 45 minutes, so I commenced with the IMPOSSIBLE task of cutting into ½” cubes. For the record the cross cut and then diagonal cuts DO NOT give you ½” cubes. The geometry of a Pot doesn't permit such a thing! There are LOTS of weird sliver shaped ones left over that are about 3 inches long. They hide in the bottom, no doubt hoping to avoid detection.

The sink full of hot water thing is going to take some practice. I started with a sink full of 110f water. Set the pot in there and within 5 or 6 minutes the curd and the sink water were at 100. I used 2 thermometers, 1 in the curd and 1 in the sink. Whoever decided you needed to come up 2 degrees every 5 minutes must have some kind of serious temperature controlled waterbath or something, because doing that in a sink with that measure of control would take Mystical powers beyond my low-grade sorcerer skills. I just kept telling myself that people were making cheese hundreds and thousands of years ago and probably doing it without thermometers, water heaters and probably even without sinks, so I would probably be OK, we’ll see. I’m picturing people doing this in a big cast iron pot over a bed of hot hickory coals right next to the sun dial, and saying to myself I want to see them bring it up 2 degrees every 5 minutes!

30 minutes of occasional stirring provoked a number of audible “AH-HA’s” from me as I continued to spot curd that did not conform to the ½” cube rule but met with a swift slash of the butcher knife. The recipe said to stir gently to keep the curds from matting, but it didn’t say how much or how often so I stirred every 5 minutes or so for about 20 seconds mostly to check for non-compliant Giant curds that might have evaded detection. It seemed to be sufficient, as I didn’t notice any matting of the curds. The curds continued to shrink and the whey continued to grow.

I debated on saving the Whey for a whey cheese recipe I found in the book, but it was getting late and all the recipes call for fresh whey no more than 3 hours old. Again I figured it wouldn’t really matter if I stuck the whey back into the milk jug in the fridge but I tend to follow recipes with religious fervor the first time through so I can blame someone else if it goes wrong. I’m guessing that whey doesn’t keep well at room temperature and also that most of these recipes were created before refrigeration as a way to utilize resources and so the 3 hour old rule makes a certain sense in that light. Next time I may try the whey cheese, and the time after that I may be rebellious and see what happens if I refrigerate the whey overnight and THEN make it. I tend to break the rules more once I gain a little confidence.

Draining the curd is pretty much what I expected; it drained.

I must admit I was a bit surprised that the drained curd had as much body and substance as it did. It sort of bounced into the bowl and stayed in one piece. It was quite rubbery.

Broke it up, salted it, broke it smaller as I mixed the salt in, and then lovingly placed it into my lined mold.

In retrospect I really should have given a little more thought to the press. I had it in my mind that I would balance a board on top of the follower and just sit the weight on the board. Boy was I wrong-o. The first step (10 lbs for 10 minutes) I pulled off easy enough with some side supports. The 20 pound step was when I began to realize I was going to have some serious problems later. So I went about furiously constructing an apparatus for the 50 pound step that was quite obnoxious but worked. I took piece of pipe and marked off 6” increments on it. I put a screw into the leg of an old table at the right height for my mold and stuck the end of the pipe on the screw. The press went under the first 6” mark and I hung 10 lbs of dumbbell plates from a string at the 50lb mark. It of course lifted the table leg, so I had to put a couple of cases of water bottles on the table to hold it down. The problem I didn’t anticipate was that the follower would not stay straight in the mold and so I had to rotate the mold a few times for the first few hours until it solidified enough to stay in there straight. I’m building a better press before I do the next batch.

So after about 15 hours I took the cheese out and begin the air drying process. It’s not hard like a store-bought cheddar, it’s solid and can be handled without worry, but it’s quite spongy and almost rubbery to touch. I don’t know if this normal or not. The cheese tastes just like the curd, not sour or bitter or astringent, just pretty much exactly like the curd tastes. Which is to say, not all that great and not like cheese. So I’m hoping the aging process will turn it into something edible.

Here are few choice pics from the process.

 

[passedpawn]

Hello Cheesemakers!

I'm brand new to cheese making. I ordered a kit online and decided to dive right in with Farmhouse Cheddar as my first cheese. I read the Home Cheese Making by Ricki Carrol book cover to cover a couple of times and watched a few Youtube videos before beginning and I am pleased to say that I have something resembling a wheel of cheese air drying on my counter top as I write this. I'm not sure what I have will actually BE cheese, but I am hopeful. I thought I would share what I did along with a few pics in case someone else wants to see. I have looked in vain for some step by step journals with photos and haven't been able to find any so maybe this will be of some use to someone.


---
My First Farmhouse Cheddar
January 22, 2016

1 gallon whole milk
1 packet mesophilic direct set culture
¼ tablet Rennet diluted in 3 Tbl water

Nailed the 90f and held it pretty well. Temp creeped up to around 94-95 for a little while, but I was able to get it reined in pretty quickly and found the sweet spot on my 2 burner electric hotplate to hold it at 90. Yes you read that right I did this on a hotplate! Hey, it's what I have, don't judge!

I wasn’t 100% certain about the pasteurization of the milk so I added the sodium chloride just to be safe. Added the starter and let ‘er sit on the burner at 90 for 45 minutes.

Added the rennet and stirred as per Ricki’s instructions. Covered the pot and again let it sit for 45 minutes checking the temp periodically to make sure it didn’t creep up. Might have hit 92 or so for a brief time, adjusted the pot off the burner a little and held it pretty close for the duration.

Got a clean break in the curd after 45 minutes, so I commenced with the IMPOSSIBLE task of cutting into ½” cubes. For the record the cross cut and then diagonal cuts DO NOT give you ½” cubes. The geometry of a Pot doesn't permit such a thing! There are LOTS of weird sliver shaped ones left over that are about 3 inches long. They hide in the bottom, no doubt hoping to avoid detection.

The sink full of hot water thing is going to take some practice. I started with a sink full of 110f water. Set the pot in there and within 5 or 6 minutes the curd and the sink water were at 100. I used 2 thermometers, 1 in the curd and 1 in the sink. Whoever decided you needed to come up 2 degrees every 5 minutes must have some kind of serious temperature controlled waterbath or something, because doing that in a sink with that measure of control would take Mystical powers beyond my low-grade sorcerer skills. I just kept telling myself that people were making cheese hundreds and thousands of years ago and probably doing it without thermometers, water heaters and probably even without sinks, so I would probably be OK, we’ll see. I’m picturing people doing this in a big cast iron pot over a bed of hot hickory coals right next to the sun dial, and saying to myself I want to see them bring it up 2 degrees every 5 minutes!

30 minutes of occasional stirring provoked a number of audible “AH-HA’s” from me as I continued to spot curd that did not conform to the ½” cube rule but met with a swift slash of the butcher knife. The recipe said to stir gently to keep the curds from matting, but it didn’t say how much or how often so I stirred every 5 minutes or so for about 20 seconds mostly to check for non-compliant Giant curds that might have evaded detection. It seemed to be sufficient, as I didn’t notice any matting of the curds. The curds continued to shrink and the whey continued to grow.

I debated on saving the Whey for a whey cheese recipe I found in the book, but it was getting late and all the recipes call for fresh whey no more than 3 hours old. Again I figured it wouldn’t really matter if I stuck the whey back into the milk jug in the fridge but I tend to follow recipes with religious fervor the first time through so I can blame someone else if it goes wrong. I’m guessing that whey doesn’t keep well at room temperature and also that most of these recipes were created before refrigeration as a way to utilize resources and so the 3 hour old rule makes a certain sense in that light. Next time I may try the whey cheese, and the time after that I may be rebellious and see what happens if I refrigerate the whey overnight and THEN make it. I tend to break the rules more once I gain a little confidence.

Draining the curd is pretty much what I expected; it drained.

I must admit I was a bit surprised that the drained curd had as much body and substance as it did. It sort of bounced into the bowl and stayed in one piece. It was quite rubbery.

Broke it up, salted it, broke it smaller as I mixed the salt in, and then lovingly placed it into my lined mold.

In retrospect I really should have given a little more thought to the press. I had it in my mind that I would balance a board on top of the follower and just sit the weight on the board. Boy was I wrong-o. The first step (10 lbs for 10 minutes) I pulled off easy enough with some side supports. The 20 pound step was when I began to realize I was going to have some serious problems later. So I went about furiously constructing an apparatus for the 50 pound step that was quite obnoxious but worked. I took piece of pipe and marked off 6” increments on it. I put a screw into the leg of an old table at the right height for my mold and stuck the end of the pipe on the screw. The press went under the first 6” mark and I hung 10 lbs of dumbbell plates from a string at the 50lb mark. It of course lifted the table leg, so I had to put a couple of cases of water bottles on the table to hold it down. The problem I didn’t anticipate was that the follower would not stay straight in the mold and so I had to rotate the mold a few times for the first few hours until it solidified enough to stay in there straight. I’m building a better press before I do the next batch.

So after about 15 hours I took the cheese out and begin the air drying process. It’s not hard like a store-bought cheddar, it’s solid and can be handled without worry, but it’s quite spongy and almost rubbery to touch. I don’t know if this normal or not. The cheese tastes just like the curd, not sour or bitter or astringent, just pretty much exactly like the curd tastes. Which is to say, not all that great and not like cheese. So I’m hoping the aging process will turn it into something edible.

Here are few choice pics from the process.

Looks good!

You can build a press, and it's a fun and doable project. However, if you want to buy one, I highly recommend both of the presses sold at the following site (I own both). The smaller one is easy to store if you are short on space. The bigger one is better in almost every other respect. They both work fine for most cheeses (though, if you want to make Parmesan or other really hard cheeses, the bigger one will let you press with more weight.

http://sturdypress.com/

The cheese will change a lot after some aging. The culture that you added to the cheese will slowly consume the lactose in the curds, lowering the pH and developing the characteristic cheese flavor. Don't wait a year. Cut that thing open in a month and check it out.

How are you going to age it? wax, bags, wrap, ?

 

[arkansascontrols]

Looks good!

You can build a press, and it's a fun and doable project. However, if you want to buy one, I highly recommend both of the presses sold at the following site (I own both). The smaller one is easy to store if you are short on space. The bigger one is better in almost every other respect. They both work fine for most cheeses (though, if you want to make Parmesan or other really hard cheeses, the bigger one will let you press with more weight.

http://sturdypress.com/

The cheese will change a lot after some aging. The culture that you added to the cheese will slowly consume the lactose in the curds, lowering the pH and developing the characteristic cheese flavor. Don't wait a year. Cut that thing open in a month and check it out.

How are you going to age it? wax, bags, wrap, ?

Andrew,

Thanks for the info on the presses and for the encouragement on the aging, I needed to hear that it was going to turn into cheese. I am planning to wax it.

I have a small dorm sized refrigerator that I have officially repurposed as my cheese cave. It's been holding around 52-55 degrees for the last 4 days. I don't have any way to measure humidity but I figured on putting a bowl of water or some damp cloth in there to keep it moist.

I'd love to have one of your presses, alas I fear getting it shipped to my current location would be problematic. I find myself having to improvise regularly due to geographical limitations. Your presses are much nicer (and no doubt much more effective) versions of my ghastly pipe and dumbbell weight cantilever setup and would have been wonderful to have during the first batch. PM me with some prices and I'll send you the specifics on my location to see if you'd be interested in shipping me one.

BTW, how big of a deal is the slow temperature increase after the curd cutting? Really???

 

[passedpawn]

Regarding the temperature change rate, I might achieve those accidentally, but I don't fret too much about it.

I'm not interested in getting rid of my presses. I sold one on here a year ago; I'm keeping what I have left.

Andrew,

Thanks for the info on the presses and for the encouragement on the aging, I needed to hear that it was going to turn into cheese. I am planning to wax it.

I have a small dorm sized refrigerator that I have officially repurposed as my cheese cave. It's been holding around 52-55 degrees for the last 4 days. I don't have any way to measure humidity but I figured on putting a bowl of water or some damp cloth in there to keep it moist.

I'd love to have one of your presses, alas I fear getting it shipped to my current location would be problematic. I find myself having to improvise regularly due to geographical limitations. Your presses are much nicer (and no doubt much more effective) versions of my ghastly pipe and dumbbell weight cantilever setup and would have been wonderful to have during the first batch. PM me with some prices and I'll send you the specifics on my location to see if you'd be interested in shipping me one.

BTW, how big of a deal is the slow temperature increase after the curd cutting? Really???

 

[arkansascontrols]

Regarding the temperature change rate, I might achieve those accidentally, but I don't fret too much about it.

I'm not interested in getting rid of my presses. I sold one on here a year ago; I'm keeping what I have left.

Sorry about that, I misunderstood your earlier post about owning both presses as meaning you owned the company! I realized the mistake after re-reading the post. I think I will contact them about shipping one to me, thanks again for the link, I like the looks and function of those a lot better than some of the others I've seen for several hundred dollars.