What next?

[Arthurrockz]

Hey guys,

I have been doing beer kits such as coppers and i wondered what would be the upgrade from that? I have heard of of extract and all grain but i'm not that confident on them. So i was wondering if anyone had a good way of explaining them?

Cheers
Arthur

 

[Elky]

Hey Arthur, you should check out the extract kits from places like Norther Brewer. The difference is that these kits include steeping grains and hops.

The grains are added to your hot water before anything else and you make a sort of tea from them. After a set amount of time you discard the grains and raise the temp of the water. At this point you add the extract, just like you would with Coopers, and bring it to a boil. Once the pot is boiling you add your hops at the times indicated in the recipe. once the boils over everything is the same as you're used to; put it in a fermenting bucket/carboy, let it cool, pitch the yeast, and seal'er up!

Edit: here is a simple wheat extract ale kit from NB that doesnt have grains. A kit like this would be a good next step.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...le-kits/bavarian-hefe-weizen-extract-kit.html

Additionally this is the instruction sheet that comes with it. There's a link on their page but I added it here for convenience.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/BavarianHefeweizen.pdf

 

[Makeyermark]

Assuming 5 gallon batches

Extract brewing is usually where you boil about 3 gallons of water, add a jug of malt extract, possibly some steeping grains and hops. At the end of the boil, you cool the wort, dump it in your primary and top off with remaining water to bring it to a 5 gallon batch and add the yeast.

All Grain requires some equipment, such as a mashing tun, wort chiller, a boil pot big enough to hold 8 - 10 gallons and a device that can boil high volumes of water, such as a turkey fryer. You bring several gallons of water to a temp of about 165 degrees (strike water), dump it into your mashing tun, add your grains (dough in) and let sit for about 60 - 90 minutes at a temp around 153 degrees (depending on the brew). You drain the results (1st runnings) into your pot, add the remaining water ( brought to temp) to the soaked grain (sparging), let it sit for another 10 - 15 mins, drain into the pot. Then you bring the pot to a boil, add hops and any other fun stuff that you want to add. Cool with the wort chiller and add yeast.

 

[DoubleAught]

What type of equipment is need for a Partial Mash kit. Correct me if Im wrong, isn't a partial mash in-between an extract and AG brewing? Have done a few NB extract kits, would like to get more advanced but am not ready to buy more equipment.

 

[Elky]

What type of equipment is need for a Partial Mash kit. Correct me if Im wrong, isn't a partial mash in-between an extract and AG brewing? Have done a few NB extract kits, would like to get more advanced but am not ready to buy more equipment.

If you check out the stickies at the top of this forum you will see one titled "Easy Partial Mash Brewing" check that thread out for details on PM

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Yes, partial mash is the in between of Extract and All Grain. You just need a big pot and a large grain bag. Look in the stickies as was mentioned, or do a google search for instructions on partial mash brewing. Doesn't really need any specialty equipment, and lets you get the feel of All Grain.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I do brew-in-a-bag partial mashes. It's similar to steeping grains, except adding base grains in addition to specialty grains, you're more concerned about temperature (I use 152-155 depending on the brew) and holding for 60+ minutes instead of the 30ish minutes at the broader range acceptable for steeping. And then I add a sparge by pulling out my big grain bag, letting it drain back into the kettle, and then putting it in a collander and rinsing the grains into the kettle with enough 170 degree water to bring me to my boil volume. Then add extract and proceed as normal.

Pleny of folks use a similar method for all grain brewing as well. It's cheap, effective, and requires less equipment than traditional all-grain brewing.

 

[Yooper]

I always compare brewing kits to food.

Cooper's is like a can of Hunts Spaghetti sauce. Not good, but not too awful. It's ok in a pinch.

An extract kit, like Brewer's Best, is like some jarred Ragu sause. Not all that good, but better and tastes closer to homemade.

A partial mash kit from Austinhomebrew.com, midwestsupplies.com, or northernbrewer.com (I think morebeer has them too, but I haven't ordered any) is like buying tomato sauce, oregano, garlic, and onions and making up some spaghetti sauce. This can taste just as good as a restaurant sauce.

An AG beer is like growing or buying the tomatoes, and making the spaghetti sauce. It can be great if you know what you're doing, but a total failure if you don't know how to peel the tomatoes!



An extract kit is super easy, and I have used some Brewer's Best kits, as well as some wonderful "clone" kits from austinhomebrew.com. The Brewer's Best are ok, if fresh, but the AHS kits are great. You could definitely make a very good beer out of one of them.

The PM kits are very similar, but with some extra grains so the beer tastes even more like a commercial beer. I've had some excellent beers from this kits, and have judged some in competition that won over AG beers!

Both extract and PM kits from those stores are easily done by anyone. They don't require special skills or equipment, and they have very good instructions. I'd highly recommend one of those as the next stepping stone, and stay away from Coopers, Mr.Beer, Munton's, and John Bull prehopped liquid extract kits if you want to improve your beer.

 

[jonmohno]

Its easy to do a small stovetop all grain.You dont need the equipemnt but need to know exactly how much of what though.I like using good quality extract and doing partials with grain to get more out of what i want to brew, you are limited with extract, but i just use it for the majority of base malt.Either way you can make great beer.The quality and freshness or care and method,water yeast, ph,hops, ferment temp really all depend.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

I always compare brewing kits to food.

Cooper's is like a can of Hunts Spaghetti sauce. Not good, but not too awful. It's ok in a pinch.

An extract kit, like Brewer's Best, is like some jarred Ragu sause. Not all that good, but better and tastes closer to homemade.

A partial mash kit from Austinhomebrew.com, midwestsupplies.com, or northernbrewer.com (I think morebeer has them too, but I haven't ordered any) is like buying tomato sauce, oregano, garlic, and onions and making up some spaghetti sauce. This can taste just as good as a restaurant sauce.

An AG beer is like growing or buying the tomatoes, and making the spaghetti sauce. It can be great if you know what you're doing, but a total failure if you don't know how to peel the tomatoes!

Gotta love your analogy, so awesome.

+1 as well to this.

 

[Arthurrockz]

Ok thanks for all your comments, they are all really helpful. So it looks as if i will go and have a look at an extract kit. My friends and I enjoy a lager rather than an ale (don't get me wrong ales are nice, but i do like a good lager) so does anyone know any extract kits for a lager they would like to recommend?

 

[Yooper]

Ok thanks for all your comments, they are all really helpful. So it looks as if i will go and have a look at an extract kit. My friends and I enjoy a lager rather than an ale (don't get me wrong ales are nice, but i do like a good lager) so does anyone know any extract kits for a lager they would like to recommend?

Lagers are really tough to make, especially for a beginner. They must be fermented at 48-52 degrees F, they often need a diacetyl rest, and they usually require a transfer after that and then they are lagered (which means "cold stored" in German). There are some kits (like Cooper's) that call any light beer a "lager" but aren't anything like a commercial lager.

Where will you be shopping? I think that some of the kits I mentioned earlier may not be available in the UK. If you can tell us what you have available, maybe we could help you find something.

Otherwise, we have a very nice recipes database here. You could easily do an extract batch recipe and just buy the ingredients individually. I have an English brown ale posted (under my avatar) that is a beginner recipe and it's pretty good in a Newcastle-ish way.

 

[Arthurrockz]

Ok i'll do an ale to start off with then, thanks for the heads up.

Well the only local shop i have is called 'the happy brewer'
http://www.thehappybrewer.co.uk/
they are the only places near that sell home brew stuff, so apart from them it would be the internet.

i have used this place recently and they seemed good
http://www.the-online-homebrew-company.co.uk/

That recipe does look nice and i would like to try it but i feel i would be more safe trying a kit first because i get all the right stuff and theres less chance for me to somehow ruin it aha.

 

[unionrdr]

Idk why so many put down cooper's as crap. I love using them as a base for other styles. Since they can't be boiled without ruining the hop profile,I add it late. I use half the DME for 25 minute (total) boils for 3 hop additions. Then add remaining fermentables for lighter color,cleaner flavor.
Cooper's are fine if you use them in the right way. They'll show bad processes in a heart beat. Blame the brewer,not the brew. It has no mind of it's own.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

I would agree with you Arthurrockz, an Extract Kit is a good way to go, especially one with specialty grains. My father in law brews with me, he has been going for a year now, and even at All Grain he buys kits; usually what ever is the monthly special (is a fun way to learn of new styles, as he used to just go for Stouts/Porters or IPA's). I am trying to get him to develop recipes with me, but as a beginner then do kits, as you can make some damned good beers that way.

What you should brew really depends on what you like to drink. As a starting kit I would say avoid anything high alcohol as that requires a yeast starter, and that is just an additional step that you don't want to worry about until you have the rest of the process down.

You say you like lagers? Then I would suggest trying to do a Kolsch; it is a German ale (from Koln) that tastes like a lager and has a pleasant fruit nose. Perhaps a wheat beer (hefeweizen perhaps) as that is also a lighter, refreshing style ale that Lager drinkers seem to enjoy.

However, if you have a style you prefer, go for it! I would avoid Belgians as there is a lot to do with those, at least for a first batch.

So, the question is, if you weren't drinking a lager what would you be drinking?

 

[unionrdr]

I'd say pale ales,myself. The Kolsh is a good example.

 

[Yooper]

I'd say pale ales,myself. The Kolsh is a good example.

Kolsch is as far from a pale ale as it is a stout. A kolsch is an ale, light in color, most similar to a blonde ale or cream ale.

A pale ale is a totally different beer style.

 

[Tall_Yotie]

Ditto to Yooper.

A Kolsch is like a lager, but with ale yeast.

Pale Ale has a bit more malt body and a lot of hops character. Not as much as an IPA, but its little brother.

So yeah, I would say Kolsch, Blonde Ale, Cream Ale, of some form of Wheat Ale.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,I make pale ales that aren't amber or so in color,like the original. English pales aren't that hoppy. So I'm speaking more from my own take on the style. Guess I should've mentioned that. The kolsh sounds interesting,though.

 

[Yooper]

Well,I make pale ales that aren't amber or so in color,like the original. English pales aren't that hoppy. So I'm speaking more from my own take on the style. Guess I should've mentioned that. The kolsh sounds interesting,though.

"Pale Ale" is a recognized beer style, just as IPA, cream ale, oatmeal stout, etc. When you say "pale ale", it makes people think of a certain beer style, like Great Lakes' Burning River.

English pale ales can be very hoppy! They tend to have more crystal sweetness in them, as opposed to American pale ales and more earthy hops.

American pale ales can vary in color from 5-14 SRM, so from very light to copper colored. English pale ales will typically be 4-18 SRM, so some of them are very dark. An SRM of 4 is very light- like Budweiser. So color is not a defining character of "pale ale".

 

[unionrdr]

Well,to be honest,I guess I do use the term rather loosely. My ales run from the lighter color,like Sam Adam's summer ale,to the lighter side of orange/amber,to the color of Salvator doppel bock.
So,if not "pale" ale,what would be the appropriate term? I understand BJCP guidelines are rather narrow/specific. I thought I was using the correct term. Now I'm getting befuddled by all this. Just when ya think ya got figured...yer wrong! (shooter)

 

[Yooper]

Well,to be honest,I guess I do use the term rather loosely. My ales run from the lighter color,like Sam Adam's summer ale,to the lighter side of orange/amber,to the color of Salvator doppel bock.
So,if not "pale" ale,what would be the appropriate term? I understand BJCP guidelines are rather narrow/specific. I thought I was using the correct term. Now I'm getting befuddled by all this. Just when ya think ya got figured...yer wrong! (shooter)

Have you seen this?: http://www.bjcp.org/stylecenter.php

Color is really the LEAST "important" descriptor! I mean, sure you wouldn't expect a blonde stout or a black light lager, but the defining of the style has more to do with the ingredients and tastes than the color. Color is NOT one of the important features for the most part. You can add an ounce of black malt and make even the lightest beer "dark".

One thing that really helped with my brewing was going over the style guidelines and seeing the commercial beers that are in each one. "Aha! A dortmunder gold is different than a helles bock, and here's why....." type learning experience for me.

I knew that I liked certain beers, but I didn't know what they might have had in common until I learned the styles and what the common denominator in those beers was.

Do you ever drink Genny Cream Ale? It's my dad's favorite, so I've put away lots of it over the years. But I never knew how it differed from Budweiser until I learned more about the styles.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,I've saved a copy of the guidelines from some posting months ago. But some commercial examples I've never tried,heard of,or haven't had in along time. So that's kinda iffy at this point for me. Been doing more afternoon "research" (lolz)...guess I need to do some more. I've been playing around with different color/flavor profiles with different hops,different colored malts & the like. Brewed basically the same way.
I guess I'll have to read those guidelines again. But I figured they're all "pale ales" that I've been making,regardless.?...Maybe what I'm making could/would be called by another name,according to the rules. I also like trying to get the flavors without big ABV,or being heavy bodied. I just figured one could have those sort of complexities of flavor,without being chewy,or 12% or something.

 

[Acoma]

I love me some Dales pale ale.

To the OP, I would also recommend extract first then straight to all grain. No need to partial. AG isn't hard at all, just calls for a few more tools. That said, extract is no step down from AG. You can make award winning beer with extract and never need to go AG. The fun part about AG though is I feel I can get more creative. Being that most of us enjoy cooking/brewing/experimenting with flavors and what not, AG seems to allow more of that fun stuff.

 

[unionrdr]

It also seems to allow for more mistakes. So greater attention to detail seems to be the rule of the day with AG. But extract beers have won some big awards. I think that's really cool. I've read that some AG'rs still do extract batches now & then,& can't tell any significant difference from an average AG batch. So,if you get your process down cold,you can make great beer,no matter whether it's extract,partial mash,or AG.

 

[Yooper]

I guess I'll have to read those guidelines again. But I figured they're all "pale ales" that I've been making,regardless.?...

Well, Pale ales tend to have some broad characteristics, but not wide enough that all lighter colored beers are pale ales. As a rule, pale ales (both English and American) are hoppy, with a firm bittering. An English bitter is less hoppy, but still with solid bittering. Also as a rule, the tend to have two-row as a base malt, crystal malt as a specialty malt, and relatively strong bitterness character. American styles can be (and often are) aggressively hopped. American pale ales will have less carmel malt character than English pale ales. The color can range from very pale straw colored to dark copper, so color is not any indication of the style.