What level are you?

[SpanishCastleAle]

To me, an advanced brewer possesses an understanding of the process, ingredients and tools that allows him/her to achieve the results he/she sets out to achieve. It has nothing to do with number of batches brewed, other than as you brew more your understanding increases. You could brew 10 batches have that understanding or you could brew 500 batches and still be clueless.

Equipment has nothing to do with the level of ones experience.

Agree and agree. Some people play bad golf their whole life. They play a lot and they buy the best equipment but they still just enjoy playing bad golf...not working on improving their game, etc.

And imo, some of you are sandbagging! No way (imo) that Pol, Yooper, and Bobby_M are novice by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Bobby_M]

No way man. I think you're looking at my post count too much. I'm mostly an idea man. Building a counterflow chiller or any other contraption does not make good beer.

 

[Sigafoos]

I think it's mostly in knowing about the beer. What ingredients do, why you'd use some more than others in a recipe, tasting, and having your process down. I'd say I'm intermediate because I can brew AG, I know what changing various aspects of my process will do to the finished product, and I can now have a brewday where I sit back and relax instead of running around because I forgot to do X until the last minute.

Once I can start to make the same recipe reliably (haven't repeated anything yet; probably won't for a while) and/or I can make beers that score in the upper 30s at AWOG/that the kickass brewers in my club think are really good, then I'll say I'm advanced. I think the first jump is far easier to make than the second.

 

[jspence1]

Perhaps we need a leveling system like workd of warcraft. I checked my beer level and if this next batch turns out good I'm going to level.

 

[Homercidal]

I think that up to a certain point equipment CAN say something about a brewer's knowledge and experience level. Does that make them a great brewer? Not necessarily, but Some equipment is only going to be used by a person of higher-than-novice level. (Hoping they understand why they are using that piece of equipment and knowing how to use it properly that is, and not just copying plans because they seen it online).

But someone can certainly struggle with the advanced topics and techniques for a long time. I imagine a lot of us are sort of stuck at around the intermediate level because you can make great beer fairly easily. Being an expert brewer requires not only making a great beer, but being able to understand the process and ingredients at a very high level.

As for myself, I'd place me in the intermediate level. I feel I have a good understanding of most of the brewing process. I'm a bit short on ingredients knowledge. Also, the level of advanced, IMO will take years for me to achieve, with regular study. I just don't get to brew that much. It's one thing to read a book, or surf the web, but quite another to put that knowledge into practice and gain experience.

I can see a lot of us are currently working on figuring out our Water Chemistry and PH in the advanced topics. Some of us are breaking new ground by calling into question the belief that HSA is a problem, or that you need to chill your wort quickly and immediately. That stuff gives us all a better understanding of the brewing process and will someday make it easier for others to get to the advanced level of brewing.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Read a Kaiser post.

You know you are advanced when you can pick out an error in his post and correct.

I am not there yet.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

No way man. I think you're looking at my post count too much. I'm mostly an idea man. Building a counterflow chiller or any other contraption does not make good beer.

No problem...it wasn't based on anything equipment/build related (IMO, building stuff just makes one less of a novice at...building stuff). I guess we just we define 'novice' differently.

 

[Homercidal]

Perhaps we need a leveling system like workd of warcraft. I checked my beer level and if this next batch turns out good I'm going to level.

The worst part about leveling in World of Homebrew, is all the "Grinding".

 

[Cheaton]

Novice = Pulse at brew time above 120 bpm with flop sweats and nervous disposition
Intermediate = Pulse at brew time between 100 - 120 bpm, mild sweats and able to smile
Advanced = Pulse at brew time only affected by the amount of coffee or beer being consumed, sweating only due to outdoor heat or heat from banjo burner. Relaxed and allllllright disposition.

Somewhere in the calculation throw in the number of "oh ****!" moments and/or "man did I forget X or Y?" moments during the process. Maybe we can adapt the quarterback rating system....

 

[IrregularPulse]

So I was doing an inventory of equipment in my garage and noticed how I've advanced my craft over the past two years. It got me thinking....what qualifies someone as a novice brewer, an intermediate brewer, and an advanced brewer? Is it all-grain brewing? Constructing your own brewing sculpture? Going from bottling to kegging?

I doubt there's a right answer...but what do you think makes someone a beginner, intermediate, or advanced brewer?

I'd say it all depends on the outcome of the beer, not the equipment or methods used to make it.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

I'm not sure that'll work Cheaton. I, and many others I presume, brew in order TO relax. It's the bestest most relaxing part of my weekend. Although I do have coffee and a banana beforehand.

 

[Yooper]

I'm not sure that'll work Cheaton. I, and many others I presume, brew in order TO relax. It's the bestest most relaxing part of my weekend. Although I do have coffee and a banana beforehand.

Yeah, I am the same way. I'm a very high energy, almost hyper, person. But when I brew? I'm so relaxed!

I'm very laid back and easy going when I brew, and when I rack and keg and bottle. That's why I brew- some people have golf or running to get their relaxation. I brew. I've never been uptight about brewing, even when the brewday hasn't gone my way. Leaking wort chillers, a ballvalve left open, boil overs. Laugh, and just fix the issue and move on. It's good for my mental health!

 

[Cheaton]

I think I'm one of these strange people who actually finds relaxation in being stressed out. But its good stress not bad stress. I get excited when I brew, and when I cook. I feel like it makes me very alert. My heart rate goes up and I get edgy, kind of like a QB before the first snap of the game. Eye of the tiger, baby! I don't think this will ever change, even after I've done 500 batches. Lord knows, I've cooked enough meals and it never changes with that either. I was a bit disappointed with the Apfelwein.... just not enough to "worry" about.

 

[hal2814]

I have to agree with the Pol. Level of advancement depends on how much you control the process. Right now, the process still controls me to an extent. I can't just go out there and create a batch from scratch, hit all of my numbers, and have it turn out the way I want it to. That to me is advanced.

On the other hand, I am currently teaching someone to homebrew. I never knew how much I understood the process until I was asked a whole lot of questions about it. At every step, I was able to answer questions with scientific reasoning and anecdotal experience. I was able to explain the pros and cons of why I do things the way I do them. I was able to explain alternate methods and their pros and cons. When things went wrong, I had solutions. That doesn't make me a great brewer, but I do think that puts me somewhere above beginner even if only slightly above.

 

[Bobby_M]

It's understandable in that we usually judge our own expertise against all the other beer nerds here and we're constantly reminded how much we have left to learn. It almost makes it impossible to casually discuss beer making with the average public.

 

[david_42]

Certainly, the amount of equipment has nothing to do with one's brewing 'level'. I've seen enough breweries go under to know making good beer is a skill. $250,000 of shiny doesn't make up for lack of skill. Skill is consistency and adaptability.

My level? Still learning after all these beers.

 

[TexLaw]

Quality, consistency, and variety of the beer. That's all there is to it. It's all about the product and one's ability to produce it.

You don't judge a craftsman by the quality of his tools, the number of books on his wall, the number of years he's practiced the craft, the amount he's produced, the extent of his knowledge of the craft, or even the trophies on his mantle. Sure, all those may give you some hints as to his ability. However, when it comes down to it, the only standards that truly reflect one's skill are:

1. Quality of the product.

2. Consistency of that quality from product to product.

3. Variety of product with that consistent quality.


TL

 

[TexLaw]

adaptability

Well, I just go through writing all that stuff down, and there's the word I was looking for!


TL

 

[JVD_X]

I am a tenth level neutral paladin.

 

[IrregularPulse]

my t-shirt says 10th level beer nerd. I'd say Level 2-3 Brewer.

 

[Bobby_M]

Was that a Northern Brewer shirt? I picked up the tenth level beer nerd sticker at the NB table at NHC.

 

[Homercidal]

I wanted to get a 10th level beer nerd shirt for a brewday, but I would have felt awkward wearing it. Still not at that level yet.

I never have the feeling that I can just bang out a batch. I always feel like there is so much prep work for me to get it right. Some day I hope to be able to glance at my inventory and immediately know what kind of beer I could make with it, and know that if I just take those to the garage, I could walk out with a delicious example of that beer in a few hours.

 

[humann_brewing]

Going by the comments in this thread, I believe I am still a beginner. I have only brewed 2 beers twice, they were very similar to the first time but still, I have a long ways to go.

 

[Malticulous]

I have made the same beer over. It does take equipment to do. I find that the Barley crusher and chest freezer are key.

Still making the same beer over and over is still not what I want to do. I want to make better and better beer. The more experience I have only makes it harder and harder. When I no longer am getting better I might loose interest.

I have won a few ribbons against many better brewers than me. That might make me a swell-head, but I think my constant reading and posting on the net made me one.

 

[Ryan_PA]

With all there is to learn about brewing, I think anyone foolish enough to call themselves an expert is much closer to a beginner than they know.

 

[Hoppus_Poppatopolis]

My friends think I'm advanced. No one here, including me, would mistake me for anything but a beginner. Not a raw beginner perhaps but not intermediate (yet).

 

[HoppyDaze]

Ive only been brewing for a year:
Ive brewed in this order: pale ale, paulaner hefe (2nd place), dead guy clone, Blue heron clone, vienna Northernbrewer smash (beginning of all grain), Belgian Dubbel (best so far) Centinnial Blonde, Bombshell Blonde, Cream of 3 crops, Saison, Belgian Pale and last weekend my first IIPA. And in between 3 batches of Apfelwein and two batches of red wine.

So a total of 12 brews with nine being all grain. I have never done a repeat beer so I have no idea about the repeatability of my brews. I honestly don't think Im even ready for that. All my beers aside from the first one have been really good. I rarely miss my OG, so thats something. I know my all grain system very good and can have a calm and relaxing brewday. (I am no longer stress during and exhausted after brewing). All that being said I believe I am still novice, but starting to enter the intermediate territory. I read a ton! and thats the big difference between so-so brewers and good brewers. I now understand everything that goes on; I can't really tell you the "why" of conversion, attenuation, efficiency..etc but I can tell you how to make each one ideal for the brew I am making. Ive read John Palmers book, Designing Great Beers (a must for any brewer), countless hours on this board and I subscribe to Brew Your Own (another must for any brewer)...Anyway, Just some of my brewing background

 

[Moe]

I'd say i'm advanced hobbyist.

Brewed my first batch May of 1990. Lost count of number of batches. Not sure how many styles I've brewed, but probbaly not more than 8 or 10; I brew what I drink a lot of now, and that's about it. I've built two kegerators, built an all electric HERMS system, built two well ventilated indoor breweries (we moved, so I lost the firest one). I use brewing software, and i'm usually within 1.002 of my starting and ending goal, but I don't worry about it, just want my beer toi taste good. For me, building things (working on a motoized mill now) is half the fun.

Once I can make a great Uerige clone, I could care less if I ever get any better :rockin:

 

[weirdboy]

I've repeated several of my beers, but my goal isn't to maintain consistency because I'm trying to improve the beer every time in one way or another. So, I modify recipes and processes every time based on feedback and my own perceptions of what the beer needs to improve.

 

[Richabt]

Many of the folks who posted here saying they considered themselves as a novice, are people that I have learned the most from. I think it's all relative.

Ive been brewing on and off since 1995, but there are some who have been brewing maybe a year or two that I would say are more experienced than I.

There are a whole bunch of variables that could be considered. Too many to list in full.
Some key areas:
Level of understanding of the mechanics of the brewing process
Understanding the biology/chemistry of the process
Understanding of ingredient/Yeast properties and interactions
Consistant results/ Making damn good beer regularly

just my two cents