What is wrong with my beer

[jawilson20]

I have brewed about 8 extract batches will all being kegged. All but the original 2 batches kegged have the same off taste. I have taken care to clean and sanitize the kegging system each batch.

I can't put into words the off taste, my wife says "try musty or stale", anyone else that tries the beer is too nice to say anything other than it tastes good before going back to the beer they brought over. This off taste is also evident through a similar off smell that is pungent and almost sweet.

I have stuck to IPAs, Pale Ales, and a Black IPA. All have fermented out reasonably well, resulting in FGs that are consistent with what other brewers have reported for the same recipes. I have made yeast starters when necessary, ferment in a temp controlled freezer, ensure that fermentation has stopped before kegging.

Is there anyone in the Atlanta area that would like to try my beer? Do homebrew shops help trouble shoot if I bring in a sample? What about a homebrew club?

I get excited every time I brew a batch, then so dejected when they turn out like this.

 

[beerman0001]

What kind of beer lines are you serving through?

 

[jawilson20]

What kind of beer lines are you serving through?

Austin Homebrew Supply

Standard 3/16" line.

 

[jawilson20]

I would also say that this flavor and smell is way too intense to be picked up in the line.

 

[beerman0001]

HMM how are you carbing up the beer?

 

[jawilson20]

Set it and forget in method (1 week under serving pressure).

 

[beerman0001]

Wow everything you are doing sounds right. I do not try mine for 2 weeks after carbing but gets better at 3. I use this beer line Tubing - Birdman Brewing Company Store i would get an off flavor from what you are using but not what you are describing.

 

[birvine]

Have you gone back over your notes to see if anything sticks out? That is how I found two problems that I had been unable to diagnose.

Is the yeast the same or different each time?
Is your extract fresh?
How long is your primary and conditioning?
Are you using a bottling bucket at all with a bad spigot (I know you;re kegging, but just asking.)
Are you making sure the kegs are very clean and rinsed well?
Is your racking cane new and clean?
At what temp are you brewing?
Do you clean your beer lines/faucets?


Something after the first two batches... (racking his brain).


B

 

[Yooper]

"musty" and "stale" point to oxidation. How are you transferring the beer, and are you purging the kegs with co2?

 

[urbanmyth]

What do you ferment in?

 

[jawilson20]

I ferment in plastic buckets and rack through a plastic cane/tube that I clean and sanitize. When transferring I move the buckets about 15 feet to a work bench, then rack to keg, take keg upstairs, put on gas and purge with CO2. Trough this process there isnt much sloshing or chance for oxidation.

This flavor and smell sticks with the beer no matter how long it is on the gas. I have been using 1056 primarily.

Musty and stale are the only two adjectives I have been given for the off taste. And it took my wife some work to come up with those words. I cant come up with anything. The most evident thing for me is the intense pungent smell.

 

[comer88888]

What about extract twang?
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f37/extract-twang-what-54434/

 

[brewmax25]

what BRAND of extract are you using. I have personally had similar issues with the first extract batches I made from kits. They were brewers best kits. i started using Northern Brewers extract and now the beer is tasting AWESOME.

 

[Begin2Brew]

"musty" and "stale" point to oxidation. How are you transferring the beer, and are you purging the kegs with co2?

Exactly what I was thinking, how are you chilling after the boil?

 

[rumainex]

I'm pretty new to brewing myself but I have not heard water source or quality mentioned in this thread. Is it possible that your source of water is bad. Either to much chlorine or a stagnant bacteria? Not sure how much that will effect the final taste of the beer as I am new to brewing myself but might be worth looking into.

 

[jawilson20]

Exactly what I was thinking, how are you chilling after the boil?

I am chilling with an immersion chiller. Would slow chilling result in this off taste?

 

[Yooper]

I am chilling with an immersion chiller. Would slow chilling result in this off taste?

Not likely. The racking/packaging is the likely point of oxidation. If you're not putting co2 in your kegs before racking, and then just filling and hauling them before topping them off and purging with co2, that could be the issue.

I'd try putting co2 into the keg before filling, and filling gently. Then "burping" as if needed to fill. Top up with co2, then cover and purge the keg a couple of times with co2 before carrying/moving it. That should fix it, if it's oxidation.

 

[bullinachinashop]

I would also consider the fact that these were you first 2 brews and you have most likely improved your process and handling. Also I'm sure your sanitation has gotten better with each session.

You don't have to drink it. It's OK to learn from experience.

I'd chalk it up as the learning curve and move on.

That being said, it sounds like oxidation and the off flavor will only get worse.

Keep brewing!

Bull

 

[jawilson20]

I am not sure about oxidation. From what I am reading, oxidation takes some time to become evident and gets worse the longer the beer is stored. This off taste and smell is evident equally from the first pint to the last (when I finally decide to dump, usually 1.5 months after kegging).

 

[jawilson20]

I am back after taking a few months off and building this (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/idiot-builds-brutus-10-least-tries-323629/). Brewed up my first AG batch, a pale ale, and while I did not hit my target OG the beer did manage to ferment down to 1.010 for a respectable 4% alcohol content.

I kegged it yesterday and noticed the god forsaken smell again after pouring a bit off the keg to check for it. I will also say that when racking to the keg, I noted a strong smell in the fermenter. I attempted to do a bit of reading on smells in fermenter, but none of these have given me much help. As the consensus is you will get funky smells when fermenting.

I will say this though, on Saturday I popped the lid on the fermenter to get a gravity reading and tasted the beer at that time noting it to have no off flavors or smells. Cold crashed overnight on Saturday and kegged it yesterday. When racking to the keg I noted a strong smell in my fermenting bucket (something I have noticed in the past).

I know in the past everyone has said that they think my issue is oxidation, but I am so careful to not disturb the beer when transporting it though. Could the oxygen that is allowed into the fermenter when removing the lid to take a gravity reading cause oxidation? It doesn't seem likely as this would happen to everyone that uses buckets for fermenting. Could there be bacteria in my fermenter that I am not cleaning?

Either way, I will be picking up a 6.5 gallon glass carboy this week to ferment my next batch in. Let's hope that works.

 

[Kingfish]

I was going to say something in your gas source until you said you had the smell in your fermentor. Now that you are using AG the only things left are yeast, water and fermentor. Change all of these and try again.

 

[solbes]

I would point to water first. Try getting RO water from the grocery store and add the necessary salts to build it back up again.

 

[jawilson20]

I was going to say something in your gas source until you said you had the smell in your fermentor. Now that you are using AG the only things left are yeast, water and fermentor. Change all of these and try again.

I would point to water first. Try getting RO water from the grocery store and add the necessary salts to build it back up again.

The only things that causes me to pause on the water is the fact that this taste did not appear on my first two batches and I am on large municipal water source outside Atlanta (Cobb County) and have not come across any concerns from other brewers.

What I think is the most interesting is that 3 weeks after brew day I opened the fermenter for the first time to take a gravity reading and tasted my sample. I did not pick up on any off smells or tastes. 24 hours later when it comes time to keg the smell and taste is there.

 

[solbes]

Off tastes from water are tough to pin down. I had a few batches taste kinda funny early on when I used a mixture of tap and filtered tap. Since filtering everything and using RO I've never had those tastes return. Might be worth $2 on a batch to see if it helps.

 

[TaylorInOK]

I'd suggest stop opening your fermenter and letting it sit with all that fresh air for a day. There's not enough co2 production to push that back out. And if you're cold crashing, its just helping suck all that air into your beer.

Take FG reading while you keg, and adjust your next batch ferm time to that... or... fill a couple beer bottles 3/4 and put sanitized foil on top, leaving right next to your fermenter to take gravity readings... it prolly won't be "spot on" but it will give you an idea when fermentation has stopped.

 

[jawilson20]

I'd suggest stop opening your fermenter and letting it sit with all that fresh air for a day. There's not enough co2 production to push that back out. And if you're cold crashing, its just helping suck all that air into your beer.

Take FG reading while you keg, and adjust your next batch ferm time to that... or... fill a couple beer bottles 3/4 and put sanitized foil on top, leaving right next to your fermenter to take gravity readings... it prolly won't be "spot on" but it will give you an idea when fermentation has stopped.

I should clarify, I reattch the lid after taking the gravity reading. Could the oxygen that is able to get into the bucket at that time put me in this position?

 

[beerguy52]

CO2 is heavier than O2. It will blanket the beer and prevent O2 from doing the bad thing.

 

[jawilson20]

CO2 is heavier than O2. It will blanket the beer and prevent O2 from doing the bad thing.

So oxidation isn't my issue?

 

[jawilson20]

I have brewed about 8 extract batches will all being kegged. All but the original 2 batches kegged have the same off taste. I have taken care to clean and sanitize the kegging system each batch.

I can't put into words the off taste, my wife says "try musty or stale", anyone else that tries the beer is too nice to say anything other than it tastes good before going back to the beer they brought over. This off taste is also evident through a similar off smell that is pungent and almost sweet.

I have stuck to IPAs, Pale Ales, and a Black IPA. All have fermented out reasonably well, resulting in FGs that are consistent with what other brewers have reported for the same recipes. I have made yeast starters when necessary, ferment in a temp controlled freezer, ensure that fermentation has stopped before kegging.

Is there anyone in the Atlanta area that would like to try my beer? Do homebrew shops help trouble shoot if I bring in a sample? What about a homebrew club?

I get excited every time I brew a batch, then so dejected when they turn out like this.

I have sent a sample out to my designated smeller (my wife). Her ability to apply words to this smells is considerably more advanced than mine. Her current word is "soapy". Let me say that it smells the same as prior batches that were described to be "musty or stale".

So my friends, let me hear your thoughts on soapy. If you are able to help me troubleshoot this issue I will send you a keg fully of "soapy" smelling Pale Ale.

 

[TaylorInOK]

I should clarify, I reattch the lid after taking the gravity reading. Could the oxygen that is able to get into the bucket at that time put me in this position?

I would think so... but beerguy52 says "no". But each time i take my plastic ferm lid off it depresses alot and pushes my co2 out. Something's gotta replace it and it's not gentle.

CO2 is heavier than O2. It will blanket the beer and prevent O2 from doing the bad thing.

+1 learned something today.