What is that syrupy feeling after the finish?

[djonesax]

You know how pepsi or coke leaves the syrupy feeling in your mouth because they are so sweet? When that is in your beer what is the cause if not sweetness?

My latest brew (Oktoberfest) hit an FG of 1.014 and tastes very good but has that slight sugary feeling lingering after the swallow. I don't think it's Diacetyl because I did a D-rest at 68 for a week and there is no buttery flavor.

Is that just sweetness or could it be something else?

Thanks,

David

 

[brick_haus]

Oxidation?

 

[pdxal]

1.014 as a FG might be the reason. That isn't a very dry finishing beer. Perhaps you are perceiving that as the syrupy/sweet finish you are talking about, particularly if you have low bitterness.
Maybe more detail on your Oktoberfest might help.

 

[budbo]

Was it all grain? If so, you mashed it at too high a temp.

 

[djonesax]

All-Grain.

Recipe
9 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
5 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt (6 Row) US (2.0 SRM)
3 lbs 8.0 oz Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM)
3 lbs 8.0 oz Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)
6.4 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM)
2.00 oz Tettnanger U S Whole Leaf [5.30 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop
2.00 oz Hallertauer Pellet Type 90 [3.90 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop
2.0 pkg SafLager German Lager

Mash 152.0 F 60 min
Mashout 168 F 15 min

Boil 90 min

Measured Original Gravity: 1.056 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 5.5 %


The only thing that went wrong was that close to the end of the mash I was raising the temp a few degrees because it had fallen. I was heating it with low flame direct fie and had the pump recirculating. Silly me turned off the pump and forgot about the flame for a couple minutes but it was after 45+ minutes of mashing so I figured the conversion was likely already finished.

David

 

[pdxal]

Well, I hope it was a 10 gallon batch with that much grain.
Are you sure about your mash temperature? I would expect conversion to be complete or near complete by 45 minutes, so the overheating wouldn't make a difference. Sounds like a higher mash temperature with a reasonable amount of crystal. Also, are you measuring temp in several places and depths?
You had a fairly low mash efficiency at ~66%, with a bunch of 6-row in the grist, which makes me wonder if something was up.
This was a big under pitch of yeast for a lager, which might be contributing. Also, that yeast gets fairly fruity and might be perceived as sweet, or at least not crisp.
How about fermentation time, and schedule. Did you ferment in the low 50's to near FG before the diacetyl rest? How long did it ferment? How long did you lager it?
Another possibility is water composition. Have you looked at your water report? Higher chloride and lower sulfate might contribute to less crisp or hoppy flavor perception.

 

[flars]

The last commercial Oktoberfest I had finished with a malty, syrupy like, sweetness. Can't remember the brewery, but yours sounds like a good example of the same beer.

 

[djonesax]

Well, I hope it was a 10 gallon batch with that much grain.

Yes 10 gal

Are you sure about your mash temperature? I would expect conversion to be complete or near complete by 45 minutes, so the overheating wouldn't make a difference. Sounds like a higher mash temperature with a reasonable amount of crystal. Also, are you measuring temp in several places and depths?

I have checked all my thermometers against other thermometers and they are all consistent but I havent checked it with a precision thermometer.

You had a fairly low mash efficiency at ~66%, with a bunch of 6-row in the grist, which makes me wonder if something was up.

The mash efficiency was actually about 79% but I didnt boil hard enough and I ended up with too much wort making it look like a low efficiency.

This was a big under pitch of yeast for a lager, which might be contributing.
Also, that yeast gets fairly fruity and might be perceived as sweet, or at least not crisp.
How about fermentation time, and schedule. Did you ferment in the low 50's to near FG before the diacetyl rest? How long did it ferment? How long did you lager it?

I thought two packs would be sufficient and I pitched it at 60 (was getting late and didnt want to wait ) and then lowered to to 55 for 8 days or until it was over 50 attenuated then raised the temp to 68 for a week to finish. I was trying the Quick Lager method so it has only lagered about a week so far. I fined with gelatin and I should point out that the beer is still a bit cloudy despite the gelatin.

Another possibility is water composition. Have you looked at your water report? Higher chloride and lower sulfate might contribute to less crisp or hoppy flavor perception.

I havent done much with the water but most brewers here say they dont adjust our water other than adding a campden tablet.

David

 

[djonesax]

The last commercial Oktoberfest I had finished with a malty, syrupy like, sweetness. Can't remember the brewery, but yours sounds like a good example of the same beer.

I was attempting to clone the Sam Adams Oktoberfest but I had to make a few changes due to lack of ingredients at the LHBS. Hence the 6-row...

David

 

[djonesax]

That slight syrupy finish is going away as the beer gets clearer with more time it spends in the kegerator.

 

[Hujo]

Munich, Vienna, crystal, and very little hops will do that for you. Oktoberfests are sweet and malty, and if your hops weren't fresh the AA% could've been even lower.

 

[djonesax]

I had a Sam Adams Oktoberfest yesterday and it has a similar finish, so I think you are correct.

David