What happens when you undershoot your mash ph

[humann_brewing]

I brewed my first beer with water adjustments this last weekend. It was my first beer where I actually checked the PH of the mash too.

At any rate, I was shooting for a mash ph of about 5.3 but my ph sticks were showing 5.0. I panicked a little because I didn't know what to put in to raise it. I added a little bit of ph 5.2 buffer, stirred and waited, then re-checked and was still at 5.0.

I know I could have added chalk now but wasn't thinking at the time, but what will having a mash ph of 5.0 do for my beer or not do for the beer as it may be? I hit all my gravity marks and actually went over by a few points so I definitely got the sugar out.

Any other suggestions on what to add that will raise the ph and not contribute to any of the following (ca, mg, na , so4, cl, and HCO3) and more importantly not effect the taste of the beer?

 

[menschmaschine]

First I'll say that 5.0 is not bad and within the range of acceptable mash pH... not ideal, but acceptable.

A mash pH of 5.0 or less will favor enzymes for protein reduction and be less favorable for starch reduction. This could result in slightly less foam stability, depending on your mash schedule. The mash pH will also affect the final beer pH, but 5.0 isn't really bad, so this probably won't be noticeable (sour). As long as the mash pH is above 4.7, everything should turn out alright... not perfect, but alright.

 

[humann_brewing]

First I'll say that 5.0 is not bad and within the range of acceptable mash pH... not ideal, but acceptable.

A mash pH of 5.0 or less will favor enzymes for protein reduction and be less favorable for starch reduction. This could result in slightly less foam stability, depending on your mash schedule. The mash pH will also affect the final beer pH, but 5.0 isn't really bad, so this probably won't be noticeable (sour). As long as the mash pH is above 4.7, everything should turn out alright... not perfect, but alright.

Ok, that is good to hear then. I never thought I would have to raise the ph I used John Palmers graph think and used the mineral levels that I thought I would be at and came out right where I should have been. That was based on the base malt, I didn't realize that 9% C60 would effect it that much..... live and learn I guess.

What about things to raise the ph without changing the flavor?

 

[menschmaschine]

As far as I know, the common additions to raise mash pH are chalk (CaCO3) and slaked lime (Ca(OH)2). Both will add calcium and shouldn't affect the beer flavor much (particularly slaked lime), especially in darker ales. IIRC, as long as your Ca levels are under 200, you're fine.

 

[Budzu]

Baking soda (sodium bicarbonate, NaHCO3) raises the pH LOTS with minimal additions, and minimal flavor impact. Much much more change than CaCO3 (chalk) will. Add 1/2 gram or less and observe a noticeable increase. Be sure to mix that stuff well!

 

[Kaiser]

I think your mash pH was actually at 5.3 after all.

I recently did an experiment with folks from HBT and NB. They sent me their colorpHast 4-7 strips and I tested them. In the end it showed that all the strips were off by about 0.3 pH.

HTB link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/big-colorphast-experiment-126033/#post1445223
NB link (has more discussion): http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76836

As for John’s spread sheet and SRM vs. RA I can only say that in my experience there is only a loose connection between color and needed RA. I had light munich malts that gave a lower mash pH than dark munich malts when mashed with the same water. Use his RA number as a starting point and adjust based on previous batches of that beer. I'm also not sure if John's spread sheet shoots for the righ pH range (5.4-5.6) or if it shoots for the lower end (5.2 - 5.4) in general.

When it comes to pH, I’d aim for 5.4-5.5 (cold sample) which means 5.1-5.2 when you read the colorpHast strips.

Kai

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

As for John’s spread sheet and SRM vs. RA I can only say that in my experience there is only a loose connection between color and needed RA.

I use that spreadsheet and it seems my mashes are more forgiving than the spreadsheet implies. If I'm brewing a really dark or really light brew it seems I can get away with an RA that isn't as high or low respectively and still have a good mash pH. So I don't adjust my water as much as the spreadsheet says to when brewing really light or dark brews.

 

[humann_brewing]

I think your mash pH was actually at 5.3 after all.

I recently did an experiment with folks from HBT and NB. They sent me their colorpHast 4-7 strips and I tested them. In the end it showed that all the strips were off by about 0.3 pH.

HTB link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/big-colorphast-experiment-126033/#post1445223
NB link (has more discussion): http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76836

As for John’s spread sheet and SRM vs. RA I can only say that in my experience there is only a loose connection between color and needed RA. I had light munich malts that gave a lower mash pH than dark munich malts when mashed with the same water. Use his RA number as a starting point and adjust based on previous batches of that beer. I'm also not sure if John's spread sheet shoots for the righ pH range (5.4-5.6) or if it shoots for the lower end (5.2 - 5.4) in general.

When it comes to pH, I’d aim for 5.4-5.5 (cold sample) which means 5.1-5.2 when you read the colorpHast strips.

Kai

Thanks Kaiser, maybe I was right on after all then. This is still a little disconcerning that I don't know for certain that I can trust the reading from these ph strips. I was already planning on buying a meter when I got close to running out of these strips maybe I should buy it sooner.

What ph meter do you use?

 

[Kaiser]

The strips are not bad once you know about the offset and what to expect from them. I recommend them even for brewers who own pH meters since they are a reliable back-up.

Give this a read for buying a pH meter: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/buying-guide-ph-meter-127062/

Kai

 

[saq]

I think your mash pH was actually at 5.3 after all.

I recently did an experiment with folks from HBT and NB. They sent me their colorpHast 4-7 strips and I tested them. In the end it showed that all the strips were off by about 0.3 pH.

HTB link: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/big-colorphast-experiment-126033/#post1445223
NB link (has more discussion): http://forum.northernbrewer.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=76836

As for John’s spread sheet and SRM vs. RA I can only say that in my experience there is only a loose connection between color and needed RA. I had light munich malts that gave a lower mash pH than dark munich malts when mashed with the same water. Use his RA number as a starting point and adjust based on previous batches of that beer. I'm also not sure if John's spread sheet shoots for the righ pH range (5.4-5.6) or if it shoots for the lower end (5.2 - 5.4) in general.

When it comes to pH, I’d aim for 5.4-5.5 (cold sample) which means 5.1-5.2 when you read the colorpHast strips.

Kai

Interesting observation. Did you notice this disparity in cold pH readings, hot pH readings or both? pH readings durnig the mash (hot pH reading) will be skewed due to a lower measured pH due to increased temperature.

 

[mkw87]

Paper pH strips aren't extremely accurate, they get you in the ballpark, but they were designed to be 1-14, so using the short-range ones is kind of pointless because they really only get you accuracy to about 0.5-1 pH step. Using a probe is better, but A LOT more expensive

 

[Piotr]

You can buy strips with narrow range and accuracy 0.1 - 0.2 pH.
Actually I find strips more convenient and accurate than my cheap pH meter.

 

[humann_brewing]

The strips are not bad once you know about the offset and what to expect from them. I recommend them even for brewers who own pH meters since they are a reliable back-up.

Give this a read for buying a pH meter: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/buying-guide-ph-meter-127062/

Kai

Kaiser,

I know you are liking your Milwaukee SM101 ph reader. I am thinking laying down the money for it but was looking at the next model up SM102 as it can auto correct up to 70C so I can check my mash. It obviously has a thermometer in it too. Would the PH portion of this unit be just as good as the SM101 and I am wondering how accurate the thermometer is and wondering if I could base my mash off it?

 

[Zen_Brew]

I just recently picked up the Hanna HI-98108. Found it on sale at a good price with free shipping. Shipped out 1 or 2 days after I bought it. I had to make a small adjustment at 7.0 but the 4.0 was dead on.

Might not be quite as nice as the Milwaukee, but it's a nice unit from a reputable Mfr at a good price point.

HANNA HI 98108 pHep+ pH Tester, HI98108