Added some for you.
What fermenter are you using?
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Nokt
Well-Known Member
On its maiden fermentation right now.
I started brewing in ’08 with buckets and made the move to glass pretty early so I can see fermentation and for sanitary reasons. Every brew day, the only thing I get anxious about is carrying the glass carboys to the fermentation chamber in the basement. I know it’s not a matter of if, but when, one of those babies breaks on me. So, I’m in the market to move to stainless (plus I'm thinking about harvesting yeast for future batches) but want some advice of what you’re using and if you’re happy with your purchase. Between Anvil, SS Brew Tech, Blichmann, Chapman… there’s so many to choose from. Brew bucket or conical? I'm looking for advantages, features, and benefits, not just the cheapest price... I have a birthday coming up so hopefully I can talk the fam into going in on it
I started with Bigmouth Bubblers primarily because I didn't want to do the glass thing. I still have them, in fact brewed last weekend and used one because....my stainless conical was "busy." And I wanted another beer in the pipeline.
I bought the Spike CF10 conical fermenter in March. I brew 5-gallon batches but wanted the 10-gallon model as I can see myself going to 10-gallon batches at some point. The 10-gallon will do half-batches.
The choice, based on what I see here, comes down to either the Spike offering or the SS Brewtech offering. It seems to be personal preference. I live in Wisconsin so buying from a local vendor was a plus. I have a 10-gallon boil kettle from them, plus had them add a welded port, which was done well and at a fair price.
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One advantage Spike has is they'll do interest-free financing. If you can't quite afford what you want or think you need, perhaps such financing makes sense. I almost did that, and I think it's a rather cool idea for Spike to do that.
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I'm very happy with my Spike, but let me note a few things. First, you're going to need ways to move wort around. Part of the value of a conical like this is that it can accommodate a sanitary transfer of wort to the closed fermenter. That implies a pump. To use a pump means you're going to need fittings--and this is where these things can get a little pricey.
IMO, you're also going to want some way to elevate the fermenter. Legs on the fermenter, or a table, or something. Legs, plus the stabilizing shelf, will likely cost about $80 more, give or take. Yeah, I know. They can, of course, be added later.
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Pumping imples...a pump. And the silicone tubing to make it work. And the fittings to connect everything. I went around and around about whether I wanted a quick-connect type like Spike sells, or camlocks. The camlocks are much cheaper, and more ubiquitous. I went with camlocks, and given the different needs, I'm glad I did.
I bought a Blichmann Riptide pump with Christmas money, and I'm glad I did. It includes a valve integral to the design, a pressure-release to help prime the pump, an on-off switch, and it's incredibly quiet. Others use Chuggers or similar, but the small increase in price once you add the extra stuff....I'm thinking about getting a second one.
Of course, you could just pour the chilled wort into the fermenter, and maybe that's an intermediate step. Not horribly different than how we pour into carboys or plastic buckets or similar.
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Other things:
You can't lift these with the handles when full. That implies putting the fermenter on wheels (casters) or putting it in a permanent place. The casters will add cost.
You also need a way to control ferm temps. @Nokt showed above how he's doing that with the CF5 from Spike. I kind of like that approach, though it requires a properly-sized freezer/fridge, the space to put it, and the money to buy it.
The other alternative is some variation of the temp control system Spike offers. Not cheap esp. if you need the heater included.
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Now, that said, is it worth it? Who can say? Only you. I bought mine so I could control O2 ingress, ferment under pressure, do a pressure transfer of finished beer to keg....and it does all those things--and it did them well.
I'm happy with it. A few fumbles the first couple of times as I learned how to deal with it, but yesterday I brewed and used it and everything was pretty cool with it. It's just a matter of developing a memory of how it goes, what to use, etc.
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So....it's not a cheap approach. I have fermented...3 or 4 times with mine. There's a learning curve with these. Figuring out where this or that goes, how to setup a CIP system, etc. etc. I had help, @Morrey was able to provide some guidance and that sped things up significantly.
Would I do it again? Well, I'm thinking about....another one. The cost of fittings and such is already a sunk cost, I can use them on multiple fermenters. Could i fit a CF5 in a fridge like Nokt did? Maybe....
Or maybe I should do a Herms system first. Or......
+1 on the Speidels. In the past I have used Better Bottle, Big Mouth Bubbler, glass, buckets, and most recently SS BrewBucket. While I like the BrewBucket the valve is finicky and prone to leaks, as is the weldless thermowell.
The Speidels are reasonably priced, durable, super easy to use and clean. 30L has plenty of head space for an active ferment of 6 gallons. The attachments seal well, you can kinda see inside, and you can do pressurized transfers with the right accessories. Check out norcal brewing solutions for improved spigots, valves, thermowells, etc.
The Speidels are reasonably priced, durable, super easy to use and clean. 30L has plenty of head space for an active ferment of 6 gallons. The attachments seal well, you can kinda see inside, and you can do pressurized transfers with the right accessories. Check out norcal brewing solutions for improved spigots, valves, thermowells, etc.
Not sure if this is someone on here but somebody near Pasadena MD should snap this up:
https://baltimore.craigslist.org/for/d/morebeer-temperature/6581511547.html
I really like my morebeer ultimate conical and I also have a couple Brewers Hardware 15g jacketed conicals with a window AC glycol chiller. I had listed my morebeer just because it was the odd man out but no way would I sell it for that one's price. In any event, I would encourage either of these platforms.
https://baltimore.craigslist.org/for/d/morebeer-temperature/6581511547.html
I really like my morebeer ultimate conical and I also have a couple Brewers Hardware 15g jacketed conicals with a window AC glycol chiller. I had listed my morebeer just because it was the odd man out but no way would I sell it for that one's price. In any event, I would encourage either of these platforms.
Morrey
Well-Known Member
Mongoose33 outlines a very solid process and heads up thinking going into buying a conical fermenter...which is but one of the options we have available as a fermentation vessel. I'll consider the uni as the best choice albeit many other options exist.
Just to add my .02 about building an entire system with the idea of housing the conical tank inside a large refrigerator. Of course this can be done...we see this daily. I started by saying I want ONE Uni tank and that will be the end of my want list. I now have THREE. Imagine if I was using a refrigerator(s) and I'd be up to three of them now. Think in terms of a glycol chiller from the beginning, and the flexibility of your system can grow as need be. Otherwise, you'll be limited from the start.
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Blazinlow86
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I have to disagree about the glycol. *If* you end up with 3-4 conicals glycol is a good option but *if* you only end up with one it's way overkill and over complicated. Chilling coils pumps controllers Heaters maintenance and the footprint are all cons to me. I have a single c15 and was one day away from doing glycol when a fellow brewer posted a upright freezer for 60$. Im so happy I didn't go glycol. Fridge is basically the same footprint as the conical and can crash cool with ease and only required the light bulb in a paint can for heat. Keep it simple. Too many other things to do with brewing. Diy glycol would have been 400+ and a store bought 1200+. Fridge and all the other stuff 100$. Seems a no brainer to me if only using one fermenter. Down the road the fridge can be repurposed easily also
Staticsouls
When will the beer be free?
You mentioned the chapman buckets, so i will tell you that I got two on sale for cheaper than I see them available for now. The anvil, though I have not seen one in person, seems comparable. I bought two portless, added my own bulkhead and valve, bazooka tube screens, and I use #10 stoppers with a thermowell. Both fit into a standard fridge with an inkbird. Work great. Method goes further that equipment tho.
Morrey
Well-Known Member
The good thing about HBT is we all have agreed to disagree at some time or another. Its healthy to voice opinions and experiences in which others can see our mistakes and our tribulations.
Was voicing my opinion in that I always tend to think I am where I want to be with my equipment only to realize sooner or later that I am in need of expansion. I have painted myself in the corner many times, and I always come out of the corner remembering to think ahead next time. For example: I settle on a 10G BIAB kettle thinking I will ONLY do 5.5G batches and this kettle is one and done. Well, I was wrong and now most often do 11G batches which wont fit in a 10G kettle. Now I have a 20G kettle too.
A group of Ss Uni tank owners have created a kind of user group thread, and its interesting to see the evolution of a Uni tank owner. Most say this first tank is my one and done tank.....but then they start mentioning I think I may want to add another tank. And they usually do which makes thinking and planning ahead quite valuable. With this "potential" growth as the basis for my logic, multiple refrigerators sitting side by side seems cumbersome as opposed to a small chiller. But, if a brewer is absolutely sure one tank is all they will ever need, a refrigerator makes perfect sense.
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Yep brewing is definitely not a one-size-fits-all hobby.
What pushed me to glycol and a conical was the desire to simplify the logistics of my brew day and related tasks.
-I will no longer have to make ice blocks to chill (which gives me about double the freezer space for actual food)
-Glycol chilling is much quicker than a freezer. As soon as i have maximized my water chilling ability i can pump the entire BK to the FV. I will be at pitch temps no later than the time i finish cleaning all my equipment.
-I will no longer have to wait for the trub to settle before racking to FV. Settling will happen during final chilling.
-I can drop the trub from the FV -> will be able to harvest clean yeast slurry.
-1 fermenter to clean instead of 2 or 3 cornys
-1 fermenter means no per-fermenter tasks like splitting yeast starters, or cleaning separate blow off tubes, or managing independent spund valves.
-The chiller is going to be mounted on the lower shelf of my brew table -> no more floor space utilitized
-The fermenter is going to the top shelf of my brew table -> no more floor space, wort will only be pumped a few feet, built-in 30" of elevation so closed loop gravity rack is possible, no custom freezer modification required
What pushed me to glycol and a conical was the desire to simplify the logistics of my brew day and related tasks.
-I will no longer have to make ice blocks to chill (which gives me about double the freezer space for actual food)
-Glycol chilling is much quicker than a freezer. As soon as i have maximized my water chilling ability i can pump the entire BK to the FV. I will be at pitch temps no later than the time i finish cleaning all my equipment.
-I will no longer have to wait for the trub to settle before racking to FV. Settling will happen during final chilling.
-I can drop the trub from the FV -> will be able to harvest clean yeast slurry.
-1 fermenter to clean instead of 2 or 3 cornys
-1 fermenter means no per-fermenter tasks like splitting yeast starters, or cleaning separate blow off tubes, or managing independent spund valves.
-The chiller is going to be mounted on the lower shelf of my brew table -> no more floor space utilitized
-The fermenter is going to the top shelf of my brew table -> no more floor space, wort will only be pumped a few feet, built-in 30" of elevation so closed loop gravity rack is possible, no custom freezer modification required
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Blazinlow86
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To clarify when I said freezer I meant a full sized one the conical fits into not a apartment one turned into a chiller.That's my cf15 18gallon pictured Can do everything the glycol can. Just much simpler, cheaper and more efficient. Keep in mind glycol isn't better it's just the only option if your fermenter is too big to fit into a chamber. That being said I don't see many homebrewers doing more than 18 gallons at a time so not many times the freezer won't work. Again if you have multiple fermenters I guess using glycol is okay. I would still rather have a chamber for each fermenter though. Seems silly to spend much more money to get the same end results with more effort. All were doing is cooling liquid afterall. No need to reinvent the wheel here.
Yep what you have is exactly what I wanted to avoid. I'll give you the cheaper and simpler, but i don't know about more efficiency necessarily. Maybe. Not at all knocking your setup, it just couldn't do what *I* wanted it to do.
The main reason I didn't go this route is due to the floor space (my brew area is already full and couldn't even accommodate a kegerator size fridge. Also i wanted to be able to chill the wort faster. The math for the glycol says i should get 20-30F per hour of chilling, while i know from experience a fridge is closer to 3-5F/hr. I do mostly lagers and i'm worn out making 20-40lbs of ice every brew day.
Blazinlow86
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In your case the glycol may be better as I missed your point of your ground water temp. My wort comes out of my cfc at 68f so ive never had to consider chilling in the fermenter that way. I do make lagers occasionally and just have to wait a few hours to get down to piching temp. In my case the freezer is basically the same size as the conical so I saved room by using it. Definitely not trying to knock on people that use glycol because when I first bought my conical that was definitely the way I was going to go. Then after looking into it a little bit more I didn't like the DIY route and buying the prebuilt just seemed like such a waste or money. It was like buying a Kenworth semi when a Ranger pickup would do. Yeah the Kenworth might come in handy in the future but if I never ended up using it I'm now driving a Kenworth to work everyday. It was literally the day before I was going to buy the glycol Chiller that I came across the freezer. Seeing how simple is now I'm very happy I didn't go glycol.
I completely agree the price for a glycol chiller is ridiculous. It's little more than a glorified air conditioner. But then again if they were mass produced like fridges or air conditioners i'm sure the price would be much lower.
Morrey
Well-Known Member
I don't want to sound like a glycol chiller salesman, but for me the advantages are significant:
*I like to have several batches of various beers going at once. Unless they all happen to require the same fermentation temperature (yeah, right), I am outta luck with one chest freezer or refrigerator controlled by Inkbird or similar.
*Lifting heavy pails and tanks down into a chest freezer was tough on the ole back. Refrigerators make floor plans difficult for more than one tank albeit some tanks (Ss Brew Buckets) are designed to be stacked, but we are back to the one temperature situation. Oh yeah...lifting too.
*Crashing is slow with a freezer. With a GC, I can take 11G of 65F beer down to 35F in a hurry. Glycol Chillers don't play around and make you wait.
*And the biggie - to me...I live in SC and my cooling source water is around 85-87F in the summer. I struggle to get my post-boil wort under 90F with an IC, then I have to shift to an ice recirc bath (PITA) to get down to yeast pitch temps. A trip to the convenience store, bags of ice, make new connections...you know the drill. With the glycol chiller I can transfer wort at 90F and start cooling. Within a few minutes I am at 50F and ready to pitch lager yeasts.
If we consider cost alone as a driving factor, I may have not considered a glycol chiller. How many bags of ice would I have to save to say I paid for this chiller? A bunch of bags for sure, but after one brew with the chiller, I darn well said my happiness that day paid for the chiller.
I know everyone has different situations and unique needs. It is impossible to make brewing a "one size fits all" situation as @schematix points out. The more we share our process with other brewers, the more aware we all become with the common goal of being better brewers.
*I like to have several batches of various beers going at once. Unless they all happen to require the same fermentation temperature (yeah, right), I am outta luck with one chest freezer or refrigerator controlled by Inkbird or similar.
*Lifting heavy pails and tanks down into a chest freezer was tough on the ole back. Refrigerators make floor plans difficult for more than one tank albeit some tanks (Ss Brew Buckets) are designed to be stacked, but we are back to the one temperature situation. Oh yeah...lifting too.
*Crashing is slow with a freezer. With a GC, I can take 11G of 65F beer down to 35F in a hurry. Glycol Chillers don't play around and make you wait.
*And the biggie - to me...I live in SC and my cooling source water is around 85-87F in the summer. I struggle to get my post-boil wort under 90F with an IC, then I have to shift to an ice recirc bath (PITA) to get down to yeast pitch temps. A trip to the convenience store, bags of ice, make new connections...you know the drill. With the glycol chiller I can transfer wort at 90F and start cooling. Within a few minutes I am at 50F and ready to pitch lager yeasts.
If we consider cost alone as a driving factor, I may have not considered a glycol chiller. How many bags of ice would I have to save to say I paid for this chiller? A bunch of bags for sure, but after one brew with the chiller, I darn well said my happiness that day paid for the chiller.
I know everyone has different situations and unique needs. It is impossible to make brewing a "one size fits all" situation as @schematix points out. The more we share our process with other brewers, the more aware we all become with the common goal of being better brewers.
Blazinlow86
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Seems I'm just lucky to have the right circumstances for a freezer lol. I brew in my basement with a smooth concrete floor. My ground water is appx 60f typically and my freezer is on wheels. On Brew day I roll the freezer with the unitank already inside it to my Brew stand and pump my wort into it. Roll it back into place and turn it on. Done. When I'm ready to cold crash I turn the temperature down before I go to bed and usually in the morning it's down to about 37f. Luckily my situation allows a simple solution . My point is don't overlook the fridge/freezer. It works excellent if all you need to do is control the fermenter temp. If you need to be able to drop 30f in a few hours instead of 12 hours than go with glycol
Crushdaley
Active Member
I used to want a SS conical fermenter but like a lot of you couldn't talk SWMBO into something that pricey. Then I started realizing I don't brew anywhere close to where I ferment and getting wort from the patio or garage to my fermentation fridge would be real struggle with a conical. Then I found out about fermenting in corny kegs and it just made sense. I find I can fit just shy of 5 gallons of wort in my corny, take out the short "in" tube and poppet and put a 1/2" silicone blow off hose on. I don't loose too much trub. I can fit 4 maybe 5 in my fermentation fridge. Rack to serving keg directly with co2. When its time to clean I rinse out yeast and trub. Put in a couple table spoons of oxyclean, close it up put upside down for a couple days and do a quick once over with brushes and I'm done. Easy, cheap and almost as many features as a conical plus portable.
I don’t think I could have swung this one without separate checking accounts and credit cards. Pretty large purchase in the scheme of things.
I said I’m buying a conical and glycol. She said I don’t want to hear about it. I said ok, there’s gonna be a truck delivering a pallet in about a week. She said I don’t care. Problem solved.
I said I’m buying a conical and glycol. She said I don’t want to hear about it. I said ok, there’s gonna be a truck delivering a pallet in about a week. She said I don’t care. Problem solved.
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jan_b19
Well-Known Member
I ferment in everything i can find... buckets, carboys, old (and cleaned) coke bottles... anything will do (depending on the size of the brew).
I use buckets, glass carboys and fermonster plastic carboys. Glass only gets sour or High gravity beers that I plan on aging for awhile. I haven't broke any but did have one crack a long time ago, that I replaced.
Buckets are cheap and easy to clean so if its not going to be in a fermentor too long that is generally what I'll use.
I like the fermonsters and any new fermentors that I buy will probably be one of those. They are fairly cheap at @ $35. huge opening at the top for cleaning and adding anything in during/after fermentation(dry hops, fruit, wood). No breakage worries like with glass and I can still watch the beer ferment. Good amount of head space for active fermentation.
Buckets are cheap and easy to clean so if its not going to be in a fermentor too long that is generally what I'll use.
I like the fermonsters and any new fermentors that I buy will probably be one of those. They are fairly cheap at @ $35. huge opening at the top for cleaning and adding anything in during/after fermentation(dry hops, fruit, wood). No breakage worries like with glass and I can still watch the beer ferment. Good amount of head space for active fermentation.
Wrinkletusk
Well-Known Member
I'm doing the same, but without the floating dip tube. Do you ferment and serve from the same keg? If so, do you install the floating dip tube before racking the wort and pitching the yeast?
I ferment and serve from the same corney, but I'm hesitant to install a floating dip tube as I reckon it'll get all gunked up with krausen during fermentation, and I'll have to open the keg up to clear the intake after fermentation (negating the whole point of fermenting in a keg - zero oxygen exposure).
Any one out there with experience using floating dip tubes in a corney during fermentation?
YeastHerder
Well-Known Member
I'm currently using a 7 gallon plastic fermonster for primary. I have two glass 5 gallon carboys that I use as secondaries for lagers or when dry hopping.
I picked up a used full-size refrigerator and converted it to a big fermentation chamber. Summers are a great time to pick up used refrigerators for cheap when people move.
I picked up a used full-size refrigerator and converted it to a big fermentation chamber. Summers are a great time to pick up used refrigerators for cheap when people move.
Can you point me to that thread? I was looking into picking up a Unitank with glycol system and would be interested to read through it!
jd350b
Member
7 gallon Ss brewing tech chronicle. Pretty happy with it but like anything it keeps getting better but I already invested in this one. I like the side Mount immersion chiller that the new ones have.
Morrey
Well-Known Member
Doubling Down: SS Brewtech Conical + FTSS + Glycol Power Pack
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...glycol-power-pack.528052/page-23#post-8295485
There is lots to read, and you may want to start at the end and read back towards the front. There is a ton of information that will be beneficial to you with this specific setup. I have 3 Ss Uni Tanks one 14G and two 7G tanks all running off one Penguin Glycol chiller.
Morrey
Well-Known Member
Very nice. What cooling source are you using?
If you ferment and serve from a keg is there any issues with off flavours from the leftover krausen and yeast cake? I'm thinking of fermenting and serving from a unitank and trying to figure out the problems I'll have with it
Wrinkletusk
Well-Known Member
I reckon I get about 16 litres of serving beer before it drops below the cut dip tube, so the beer only sits on the cake for 3-4 weeks (no where near long enough to worry about autolysis). Having said that, I have been getting a very slight bit of yeast/hop particulate uptake when pouring a glass, which is less than ideal. I've just ordered a couple of the fermentasaurus floating dip tubes after reading this thread, as it looks like there are a couple of people fermenting and serving from the keg with floating dip tubes. I'm hoping this will solve the last niggle I have with this method.
bigdawg86
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I Started with buckets
Then Carboys
Extract Barrel
These I no longer use.
Then Came the Sanke Keg Fermentor, Which I liked but a pain to clean just like the Extract Barrel.
This is my Stout Tank 15.5 Gal Conical go to Fermentor for single 11 gal batches.
And my newest, Mile Hi Distilling 8 Gal Milk Can Boilers, that I use to split an
11 Gal batch.
Then Carboys
Extract Barrel
These I no longer use.
Then Came the Sanke Keg Fermentor, Which I liked but a pain to clean just like the Extract Barrel.
This is my Stout Tank 15.5 Gal Conical go to Fermentor for single 11 gal batches.
And my newest, Mile Hi Distilling 8 Gal Milk Can Boilers, that I use to split an
I built an automated keg cleaner with a CIP ball. Just load the fermentasaurus on top upside down and run for 30 minutes or so with hot PBW. Perfectly clean.
I love the fernentasaurus. Beside being cheap and great value, I love the fact it’s see through. It’s a good introduction to fermenting in a conical and helps keep me at bay and trust the instruments as I can see the beer clearing as the gravity settles. Oh and it’s a pressurizable unitank. Pretty cool stuff.
Call me crazy but isn’t that a pain to load into the fridge?
Nokt
Well-Known Member
Ok, You're Crazy.
It was an easy lift into the fridge.
I don't think you're lifting it while full, correct?
MX1
Texas Ale Works
I use vittles vaults
13g and 8g
13g and 8g
Nokt
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, I am. It is only a few inches and 5 gallons. If I had a pump, I could pump in to it.
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