What causes this kind of strange off-flavor?

[BrewinInPA]

My buddy has brewed several batches now that all had the same kind of off-flavor. It's hard to describe but it's a harsh, back-of-the-throat bitterness that comes as an aftertaste in an otherwise good tasting brew.
Does anybody have any idea what this could be or what is going on here? I thought maybe it was some kind of oxidation or sanitation problem with his kegerator, but I am not sure.

 

[jdauria]

Are these mostly hoppy beers? If so, maybe hop burn? IPA's and such usually need an extra two weeks or so once carbonated to reduce hop burn from the use of a ton of hops..plus if kegging, the first several or more pints will have a lot of hop particles which makes it burn even more. If it were astringency, it would be more of a dry, puckering kind of off flavor. But there are a couple beer off-flavors that have "harsh and bitter" as their traits. Take a look at this list and see if any of them kind of describe it...https://learn.kegerator.com/off-flavors-in-beer/ Look at #9 metallic, #7 Grainy/Husky and maybe #17 phenolic.

Is he using tap water to brew? Maybe too much chlorine or chloramine in water? Have him try brewing with distilled water, then add some gpysum if a hoppy beer or calcium chloride if a malty beer...or both if balanced beer...and see if the flavor goes away...then you know something is up with the water. Maybe have him get a water report for this town, if he has to much chlorine/chloramine in the water, he should pre-treat with campden tablets.

 

[str1p3s]

My friends and I call the the "homebrew taste" and it's probably oxidation. Especially if it's a dry hopped beer. To get rid of it, I started doing a closed transfer at the end of fermentation and I stopped cold crashing until after kegging so I could hook up co2 at 1-2 psi to prevent oxygen getting sucked in. Obviously you have to keg to do this and I also bought floating dip tubes to avoid sucking up trub at the bottom of the keg.

 

[BrewinInPA]

I am suspecting water.. I am on the same water system and I have not experienced this problem, but I use a charcoal water filter that seems to remove all of the chloramines. I also heard him once mention sterilizing something with bleach.. do you think that could be it?

 

[LostHopper]

Does the taste change with time? I've also started closed transfer but I've also found that young beer has a little more edge that goes away in 4-5 days.

 

[BrewinInPA]

If anything it got worse over time.. the cold-conditioned bottles had it worse than freshly served from his keg.

 

[day_trippr]

Chloramines and/or chlorines in beer typically cause a distinct "Band-aid" character. I would look elsewhere for harshness...

Cheers!

 

[BrewinInPA]

It's so odd .. you don't taste the bitterness upfront, you get it in the back of your throat on the finish.

 

[Rippchen]

I would also suspect the water. I also had the same issue till I started to care about my water and adjust the pH with lactic acid

 

[Dland]

A lot of perceived imperfections and "off flavors" subside w some conditioning, preferably in cool conditions. A few weeks can make a big difference.

Could easily be one of the things already mentioned. But advise not to chuck until aged a bit (ok, only if you can age it cool/cold).

 

[GoodTruble]

If the bottles have it worse than the keg and got worse over time, then I lean toward cleaning product (especially if bleach is involved) or oxidation in bottling process (or both). I would confirm if he's using bleach, and if so, brew a new batch and ferment/package with equipment that was cleaned with other/better products. At least that will confirm or exclude that potential cause.

 

[bkboiler]

Back of throat bitterness in my experience is too high gypsum combined with heavy late hopping. Try softer water, with a cold crash and gelatin to drop out hop debris out of suspension.

 

[MaxStout]

This may or may not be the answer for your harshness issue, but it's something to try. Gordon Strong talks about "all late hopping" in his book Brewing Better Beer. Instead of the typical 60 minute additions, you add bittering hops at 20 minutes. This of course requires more hops to reach the same IBUs, but I've tried this in a couple recent beers and the bitterness seems to be smoother.

Might be worth a shot.

 

[Dgallo]

Is it perceived as a peppy/spicy harshness/bitterness?

 

[Bill Tong]

I've had a similar issue with a few batches, they were intensely bitter and it got worse with time. And the bitterness would linger in your mouth. Beers were undrinkable. This started when i started adding gypsum and calcium chloride to adjust water chemistry. I think it's because I didn't take boil off into account, so the final levels would have been much higher than i planned or the salts didn't play nicely with the hops. Still not 100% sure. Pre-boil wort tasted great, post-boil wort undrinkable. I stopped fiddling with water chemistry and now my beers are fine again.

 

[Dgallo]

I've had a similar issue with a few batches, they were intensely bitter and it got worse with time. And the bitterness would linger in your mouth. Beers were undrinkable. This started when i started adding gypsum and calcium chloride to adjust water chemistry. I think it's because I didn't take boil off into account, so the final levels would have been much higher than i planned or the salts didn't play nicely with the hops. Still not 100% sure. Pre-boil wort tasted great, post-boil wort undrinkable. I stopped fiddling with water chemistry and now my beers are fine again.

Are you using brewing calculators to determine your ppm of the Ca, Cl, & so4 and also your ph or did you just choose an amount? The reason I ask is because Gypsum and cacl are the two most widely used compounds for adjustments and when properly used are extremely beneficial to the style of ipa you are trying to make and same goes for other Styles. So4 accentuates bitterness and high calcium levels can cause harshness, especially in water sources with high bicarbonate. The ca could be the issue especially because both gypsum and cacl contain bond calcium ions

 

[Bill Tong]

Are you using brewing calculators to determine your ppm of the Ca, Cl, & so4 and also your ph or did you just choose an amount? The reason I ask is because Gypsum and cacl are the two most widely used compounds for adjustments and when properly used are extremely beneficial to the style of ipa you are trying to make and same goes for other Styles. So4 accentuates bitterness and high calcium levels can cause harshness, especially in water sources with high bicarbonate. The ca could be the issue especially because both gypsum and cacl contain bond calcium ions

I used BeerSmith. I use extremely soft spring water which i had analyzed. I added salts to my total volume of water to get to my desired profile, except with boil off the profile would have been different.
So e.g. i added 4g CaCl, 2g gypsum to 30 L of water to get to Ca 55, Mg 3, Na 16, SO4 42, Cl 100, HCO3 10 for a 19 L batch and it was a disaster. I also sparged with 8 L of that water.
As i said though, wort tasted fine pre-boil but post-boil was terrible.

 

[Dgallo]

I used BeerSmith. I use extremely soft spring water which i had analyzed. I added salts to my total volume of water to get to my desired profile, except with boil off the profile would have been different.
So e.g. i added 4g CaCl, 2g gypsum to 30 L of water to get to Ca 55, Mg 3, Na 16, SO4 42, Cl 100, HCO3 10 for a 19 L batch and it was a disaster. I also sparged with 8 L of that water.
As i said though, wort tasted fine pre-boil but post-boil was terrible.

That looks absolutely fine. My numbers are along these lines for my NEIPAS;
Ca:110
Mg: 10
Cl: 200
Na: 70
So4: 125

Ph also plays an important role mash and proper ph prevents tannin extraction which come off harsh with high ph and hot sparge water.

could also be dryhoping during fermentation at a high level and getting hop burn.

 

[Beermeister32]

Does the batch use extract or is it all grain? Extracts already have minerals in them, can cause too much in the final beer if more are added to meet a desired profile.