Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[tjosborne]

Could you ?
Yes.
Is it ideal?
No. But your not in an ideal situation. If it works(no guarantees as we don't know 100% why your FG is so high), you'll have quite a bit of sediment in your keg.
It would also add oxygen exposure, but if there is indeed fermentable sugar left, that should be mitigated.
You could also try adding some amylase enzyme. It+so5 helped me with an already kegged dipa stuck in the upper 30s. Mine got stuck from 002 flocing out before finished.

Ideally, you would want to either push the end result to a purged keg or let it crash in the keg for a bit then pour off a couple pints. If you ever moved or shook that keg, all the yeast would be in suspension again.

My lesson learned: take gravity readings before kegging. Krausen up, krausen down, wait a week(or two) doesn't always cut it with big brews. I wouldn't hesitate to pitch a starter in a stalled brew in the fermenter, bug in a keg presents far more issues. Your call. But if it is undrinkable to you now, you have to spur fermentation, or dump it.

The reason I don't want to transfer it again is to prevent oxidization. I just would like to let it sit in the hot garage over summer and do its thing.

It stalled because of my new brew bucket. I ramped temp up two degrees a day, once in morning and night, but once it hit 80 on my temp controller I noticed it would go to 81.5 then drop to 79 before it would kick on to heat back up. The placement of the probe or something messed things up. Bought two of them and after $450 I'm back to using my bottling buckets.

But anyhow I would like to fix this without transferring. Would a saison yeast work? In summer heat? I realize I don't want to potentially contaminate my system just to save one batch.

 

[nick113]

hello,
i am Nick and i am a new member in this forum. I have brewed about 10 recipes and i think i will make a try for this recipe very very soon. i have already made my recipe which i would like to present. i have changed the yeast and i think i will use M47 by Mangrove.
WESTY 12
Belgian Dark Strong Ale

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 50.0
Total Grain (kg): 20.000
Total Hops (g): 180.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.090 (°P): 21.6
Final Gravity (FG): 1.020 (°P): 5.1
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 9.19 %
Colour (SRM): 25.0 (EBC): 49.3
Bitterness (IBU): 32.8 (Tinseth)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 90

Grain Bill
----------------
9.000 kg Belgian - Pale Ale (45%)
9.000 kg Belgian - Pilsner (45%)
2.000 kg Belgian Candi Syrup - D2 (10%)

Hop Bill
----------------
70.0 g Brewer's Gold Pellet (9% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)
40.0 g Hallertau Mittelfruh Pellet (3.8% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
70.0 g Styrian Goldings Pellet (5.5% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil) (1.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 65°C for 90 Minutes.
Fermented at 20°C with M 47- M 27


Recipe Generated with Brewer's Friend

Any recommendations about the whole recipe?
Thanks

 

[GurraG]

I have used m47 in a dubbels and blondes, and in my experience it doen't attenuate as much as some belgian strains, although the flavor is very nice. You should be able to get the 76% apparent attenuation that's in your above calculation, but if possible I would ramp the temperature up to about 25 C when the fermentation winds down. I would also consider mashing a little lower, or maybe do a step mash.

 

[troglodytes]

For a starter I did a single step 4L starter. Assuming you have access to 5l flask/bottle - no problems it worked great.

Just remember to catch the blow off in another container (your starter flask) and add it back into the beer. My batch did not stall out and is a very tasty brew.

Holy crap! If you started with a reasonably fresh vial of yeast that would put you at around 700B cells, is that for real? I'm not going to have anywhere near that much. Or were you doing a 10 gal batch (I'm only doing 5.5Gal)?

 

[sikkingj]

That was for a 5 gallon batch. I'm not afraid to over pitch yeast, to make a difference you need to over pitch by more than I can generate.

 

[troglodytes]

I finally had my brew night last night and hit just about every number. Ended up at 1.093 and a taste test is delicious. I can't wait to see how this turns out.

But I woke up this morning realizing that I am a complete dunce. I always do a vitality starter and this brew was no different, but I just realized that I never boiled the wort before creating the starter because I was preoccupied by the wort reduction on the stovetop.

Anyway, I guess I'll just have to wait to see what turns up, but this looks extremely promising based on gravity, color, and taste. Can't wait for the final results.

 

[sikkingj]

My guess is the yeast will out compete any potential bacteria that you may have introduced. The hops may also help inhibit any bateria growth.

 

[nick113]

Friends i 've got a problem. I can't find d-180 here in Greece. Do you have any idea to suggest? Thank you.

 

[dmwahl]

Friends i 've got a problem. I can't find d-180 here in Greece. Do you have any idea to suggest? Thank you.

Check out http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2007/10/homemade-candi-syrup.html, and then the comments by Michael (basically bake it in the oven at 300F to get it to the desired darkness.

 

[troglodytes]

A quick Q on the timing of the temperature ramp up. I read that CSI says this ramps from 63-79F evenly over the course of a week. Others in here have advocated for a free rise then hold. I want to get as much attenuation and flavor as possible out of this yeast and while I'm more likely to trust CSI with his method, I'm mine will reach high krausen while in in the mid 60s which would be too low.

I pitched my starter at high krausen and the batch was fermenting with about a half inch of krausen, CO2 bubbling out the blowoff at a pretty constant rate already. Its been ramped from pitching temp (63F) to (66F) and right now at exactly 24 hours post pitch where the kruasen is now about 2 inches. Should I let a free rise up to the high 70s happen now, or use my ferm chamber to regulate a steady temp increase of about 2.5F degrees a day? I don't want hot alcohol or off flavors, but obviously this yeast wants to work in warmer conditions.

 

[Oldskewl]

Brewing this tonight. I'm hoping my stepped 2L starter stays contained until I get home from work.

 

[troglodytes]

Brewing this tonight. I'm hoping my stepped 2L starter stays contained until I get home from work.

Haha, If its in a 2L flask good luck. Man that stuff blowout all over my kitchen counters with 1.2L starter in a 2L flask.

 

[Oldskewl]

My daughter just text me "Your beer thingy overflowed"

 

[troglodytes]

On the bright side, that's a much more pleasant text than the one my wife sent me.

 

[Oldskewl]

Well my brew night went well. Missed OG a few points. I ended up at 1.087. I feel the boil off was the culprit as I had a bit more than 5.5 gal left at 90 minutes. Adding the 2 1/2 lbs of D-180 slowed the boil down also. The yeast is my concern at the moment. First my starter over flowed and then at about 40 hours the krausen filled up my krausen catcher and even overflowed my blow-off container. Things are calming down some today. At what point should I reintroduce the yeast in the krausen catcher back to the fermenter? I need a larger mason jar the next time. A quart was no where near large enough. LOL!

 

[nick113]

Another question is why servomyces. I think all yeast nutrients make the same work. Am i wrong? I' m asking because i can't find servomyces. May i use something else? Perhaps, i can find wyeast nutrient.

 

[markag]

Going to do a batch of this soon. How critical is it to get Belgian strains of grain? My local shop doesn't carry Belgian pilsner or pale grains. They have German Pils and English Pale. Is it OK to substitute? Are German / European strains preferable? Are there general rules to follow when sourcing grain for this? Thanks.

 

[Jwin]

Another question is why servomyces. I think all yeast nutrients make the same work. Am i wrong? I' m asking because i can't find servomyces. May i use something else? Perhaps, i can find wyeast nutrient.

I doubt it would matter much. Servo hasn't been on the market for more than a couple years. Good beer was made for centuries without it.
Note, I have used it and while I think there may be minimal benefit, I probably won't use it any more as I don't think the benefit out ways the cost. If you do use it, break the capsules because they didn't dissolve as designed for me.

 

[nick113]

I doubt it would matter much. Servo hasn't been on the market for more than a couple years. Good beer was made for centuries without it.
Note, I have used it and while I think there may be minimal benefit, I probably won't use it any more as I don't think the benefit out ways the cost. If you do use it, break the capsules because they didn't dissolve as designed for me.

Ok. Thanks for your answer. If i find it ok i'll use it. But if i don't never mind. I'll use something similar and available.

 

[GurraG]

Going to do a batch of this soon. How critical is it to get Belgian strains of grain? My local shop doesn't carry Belgian pilsner or pale grains. They have German Pils and English Pale. Is it OK to substitute? Are German / European strains preferable? Are there general rules to follow when sourcing grain for this? Thanks.

In my opinion you can without any problem use german pilsner malt instead of belgian. The english pale malt, however, might be more different from the belgian. The british pale malt maris otter, for example, has a pronounced biscuity flavor.

 

[Oldskewl]

Another question is why servomyces. I think all yeast nutrients make the same work. Am i wrong? I' m asking because i can't find servomyces. May i use something else? Perhaps, i can find wyeast nutrient.

I accidently bought wine yeast nutrient a few months back. I have been using in each batch I brew and used it in this one as well. It seems to squeeze out an extra couple thousandths of SG, so I figured it would help it finish as a lot of people have had difficulties. BTW, I reintroduce the yeast from my kraussen catcher last night. This morning I had a little bit more in the kraussen catcher. So maybe I should have waited another 12 hours. Seems to be pugging away fine though.

 

[troglodytes]

I've repitched three times from the krausen catcher so far and I'm at day 5.5 since pitching. I used fermcap-S (2 drops per gallon), by 36 hours the krausen was just getting to the base of my blowoff tube, so I removed it from the star san and put it into my catcher. I was nervous that I apparently hit high krausen so fast before I even got the temp up to the mid 70s, but it has remained at high krausen for 3 days now going through peaks and valleys as far as krausen levels go. Now, 5 days in I am up to 78F and the krausen is still lingering in the base of my blowoff tube. This stuff is pretty crazy (granted I gave jsut a little bit of sugar to eat).

For those that have brewed in the past. I notice that this is the stickiest krausen I have ever encountered. Does it end up reintroducing itself into the beer or should I be scraping that great top cropping yeast back into suspension with a sanitized spoon?

 

[brew_darrymore]

For those that have brewed in the past. I notice that this is the stickiest krausen I have ever encountered. Does it end up reintroducing itself into the beer or should I be scraping that great top cropping yeast back into suspension with a sanitized spoon?

Yes, the krausen will eventually drop on its own but it takes a while. The last time I brewed this recipe I gave the carboy a gentle swirl and that dropped the krausen pretty quickly. But you don't have to do that.

 

[Clinterious]

What size is the finished batch?

 

[troglodytes]

I followed the recipe to a tee. Starting with 10 gallons water exactly (knowing my brewhouse volume loses along the way). I'm 6.1 gallons into the fermentor and should be bottling 5.25-5.5 gallons after fermentation / aging. I hit 1.095OG with my hybrid mash tun BIAB setup.

 

[Oldskewl]

I'm worried. At day 5 the bubbling has pretty much stopped. I am still ramping up the temp. Been increasing 2-3 degrees F per day since day 2. I am sitting at 75 now. I will take a gravity reading on day 8 or 9.

 

[troglodytes]

I'm exactly where you are. I'm at day 7 and feel like fermentation slowed way too soon for this size beer. There is still so much gunk I'm just going to trust CSI's fermentation schedule and hold 80F for the next 3-4 days, then ramp back down to 60F. Then I'll take a gravity reading and hope it's dry enough. Based on the violence of the initial fermentation, I suspect the worst case scenario is that I will be sitting at 1.020 (just a hunch) which, if that's the case is fixable.

 

[Oldskewl]

Yeah sounds like you are a day or 2 ahead of me. I am afraid I lost too much yeast. First with the starter over flow then the kraussen catcher overflowed into my blowoff container. Close to an inch of yeast in a quart Mason jar. What is your plan of attack if you're FG is high? Pitch a huge starter of 530?

 

[troglodytes]

I've got a giant jar of WY3711 set for my saisons this summer. That stuff ferments everything, so I figured I'd get a starter to high krausen and pitch into my secondary if I had too. If I finish at 1.020 let it eke our a couple points and get it down to 18 or even better 16 points I'll be happy with this being my first real high gravity brew. I don't think the 3711 will give any flavor profile eating 4 points out of the 1.095 I started with.

If I'm really high (like 1.030 or higher) I don't have a plan of attack yet, lets just hope that's not the case.

 

[catdaddy66]

Getting ready to bottle my 2nd iteration of this beer (1st one came out awesomely) but as I look at the priming calculator I don't see the proper style listed. They have a Belgian blonde at 2.9 vol of CO2, then a dubbel and trippel at 3.3 vol each. No belgian quad or dark strong ale...

So I am gonna go 3.0 vol on this today. Anyone have the proper target amount to prime this beer? You know, for future reference? Thanks.