Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

The WY3787 seems slightly spicier but the vitality is about the same as WLP530 out of the pack/vial. Both brands will require the creation and harvesting of krausen at the pitch rate required in keeping with the recipe. It can be brewed without doing this but if so the vitality of the yeast will be the risk.

 

[jtp137]

The WY3787 seems slightly spicier but the vitality is about the same as WLP530 out of the pack/vial. Both brands will require the creation and harvesting of krausen at the pitch rate required in keeping with the recipe. It can be brewed without doing this but if so the vitality of the yeast will be the risk.

If I keep scrapping of the krausen from my starter and saved it in a sterilized mason jar. Probably have to step it up three or four times. How long would it keep the vitality. Could i do it over a week

 

[TimmyWit]

What size starter did you make with no stir plate and a 1.095 wort?

My guess is you raised the temp to 80 fairly quickly?

This is my fifth or sixth time using this yeast I always use a pitch calculator pure o2 and a gradual temp ramp from 65 to 80 over 7 days and it always under attenuates

My last tripel was made with the unibrou yeast 1.080 to 1.010 in 6 days raised 65 to 75

Well, we will see if the Unibrou strain can finish this one off. I brewed the Westy clone about a month ago. It started a little high at 1.097 and it got stuck at 1.017. I just racked a Saison I did 2 weeks ago with the Unibrou strain so I threw the Westy clone on the cake. The gravity sample did taste pretty amazing.

 

[tehnick]

What size starter did you make with no stir plate and a 1.095 wort?

My guess is you raised the temp to 80 fairly quickly?

This is my fifth or sixth time using this yeast I always use a pitch calculator pure o2 and a gradual temp ramp from 65 to 80 over 7 days and it always under attenuates

My last tripel was made with the unibrou yeast 1.080 to 1.010 in 6 days raised 65 to 75

2L starter. Pitched at 68 and it ramped up naturally and held in the room it was in. I didn't infuse o2, just shook every hour or two to move them into suspension.

 

[jtp137]

2L starter. Pitched at 68 and it ramped up naturally and held in the room it was in. I didn't infuse o2, just shook every hour or two to move them into suspension.

Hpw quickly did it get to 80 without controlling it. Did you get any hot alcohol. Looks like you underpitched, didn't oxygenate and let the temp rise uncontrolled

I have been afraid to do that, don't want nail polish remover. The last time I had a real westy 12 it was only one month old in the bottle and i did t detect any fusel or alcohol warmth. The rocherfort 10 on the other hand is warming to my pallet, but not offensive

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

If I keep scrapping of the krausen from my starter and saved it in a sterilized mason jar. Probably have to step it up three or four times. How long would it keep the vitality. Could i do it over a week

It's best within 2 days with 4 days from harvest, (at most). Krausen from a high ABV ale is generally nutrient/oxygen starved and stressed already. Brewing a pair of ales...Belgian Pale/Westy 12 for harvest-pitch back-to-back saves yeast funds and promotes a reliable fermentation. Krausen from a Westmalle Extra or a Westy 6 (Pale) is recommended.

 

[tehnick]

Hpw quickly did it get to 80 without controlling it. Did you get any hot alcohol. Looks like you underpitched, didn't oxygenate and let the temp rise uncontrolled

I have been afraid to do that, don't want nail polish remover. The last time I had a real westy 12 it was only one month old in the bottle and i did t detect any fusel or alcohol warmth. The rocherfort 10 on the other hand is warming to my pallet, but not offensive

I let the yeast do what they do. Turned out fine, other than it getting infected. Probably happened while I was moving to a new house. I do a lot of big beers and have yet to have cough syrup.

 

[user 197168]

I'm gearing up to attempt this beer very soon. One of my problems is getting my hands on some US Brewer's Gold. It appears to be as rare as gold in Australia. The UK/German variety is available, albeit a much lower AA than the US version @ 4.5%.

Any recommendations? Do I just go with the UK version and adjust for bitterness accordingly?

 

[orangehero]

There probably aren't any US hops in the real Westvleteren. You want to use Brewer's Gold or Northern Brewer from Germany.

 

[user 197168]

There probably aren't any US hops in the real Westvleteren. You want to use Brewer's Gold or Northern Brewer from Germany.

I thought I read a post from CSI saying that Northern Brewer wasn't great because the bitterness faded after about a year.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I thought I read a post from CSI saying that Northern Brewer wasn't great because the bitterness faded after about a year.

Brewers Gold, (Canadian) as well as Northern Brewer (British) are both grown in the Popperinge region just a few kilometers South-East of Vleteren, (South-Western Belgium). Since international trade is so rapid, proximity is not a guarantee for use. Saq used Northern Brewer in his mixed grain clone The Pious in keeping with BLAM, (I'll have to go back and check the text). We've switched back and forth a few times but Brewers Gold appears to be a superior hop on balance. Northern Brewer is still a fine bittering hop for this ale and also matches the flavor profile. In the end Brewers Gold is my favorite by far. IMHO .

 

[user 197168]

Thanks CSI. I'll try to get my hands on some Brewers Gold. I am just assuming the differing AA levels are due to the different origins (ie Canadian 8.5% and English 4.5%).

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Thanks CSI. I'll try to get my hands on some Brewers Gold. I am just assuming the differing AA levels are due to the different origins (ie Canadian 8.5% and English 4.5%).

Yes, very likely. I think the German grown Brewers Gold hops are the more consistent year over year. The AA's show in the mid to high 8's (8.4 - 8.9)...very similar to Northern Brewer.

 

[user 197168]

So now I've got my hops sorted (thanks), the other thing I am concerned about is yeast. While I do have a stir plate, I don't really have the equipment (or know how) for krausen harvesting. From what I have read in this thread, this yeast is very susceptible to sticking.

Two options that I've come up with are -
1. Do a 3.8 litre, double pack starter. Chill it down, drain it off, dump it in and hope.
2. Do a starter beer. Probably a Belgian Blonde at around 5.2%ABV and dump the Westie on the yeast cake.

The downsides I can see are - 1. I may still get a stuck ferment from not enough healthy yeast, and 2. I really don't know how many viable cells would be in the yeast cake (with a distinct possibility of an over-pitch).

Any thoughts or ideas?

 

[jtp137]

So now I've got my hops sorted (thanks), the other thing I am concerned about is yeast. While I do have a stir plate, I don't really have the equipment (or know how) for krausen harvesting. From what I have read in this thread, this yeast is very susceptible to sticking.

Two options that I've come up with are -
1. Do a 3.8 litre, double pack starter. Chill it down, drain it off, dump it in and hope.
2. Do a starter beer. Probably a Belgian Blonde at around 5.2%ABV and dump the Westie on the yeast cake.

The downsides I can see are - 1. I may still get a stuck ferment from not enough healthy yeast, and 2. I really don't know how many viable cells would be in the yeast cake (with a distinct possibility of an over-pitch).

Any thoughts or ideas?

What do you have for temperature control

 

[user 197168]

My temperature control (for winter) consists of a 100 litre tub of water with a big aquarium heater. It's getting cold here now and rarely gets over 23C (73F)or 20C (68F) in the cellar). I can push the water in the tub up to 30C (86F) with the heater.

I don't really have anything for temperature control for the yeast starter if that's what you were referring to.

 

[jtp137]

I would use a pitch calculator and pitch 0.75 to 1 million cells per ml per degree plato

I made this recipe twice using a pitch calculator and slow ramp from 65 to 80 over a week. The first batch took 3 weeks to get to 1.016 then I repitched to get it to 1.012. I probably didn't need to repitch but didnt want to wait. Second batch I pitched more yeast and 12 days later its at 1.016. I will probably not repitch this one

I think the only way to get this to ferment down in 7 days is to pitch fresh krousen as described by csi. Let temp ramp fast after pitching say pitch at 65 let free rise to 80 in a couple days and hold it there until it finishes. Or pitch around 1 million cells per ml per degree plato.

Attempt three a may do the fast rise and pray I dont get paint thinner. If you use a starter make sure you pitch a lot of yeast and be patient if you plan to control the temp rise. May take a month to finish

 

[ockrman]

I recently brewed a Westy 6 clone to build up my Westmalle yeast as CSI suggested. However I pitched my 12 on top of the yeast cake for simplicity, cleanliness, and laziness. Fermentation of the 12 was fast and furious, and ended up over attenuating but flavors seem to be there (only 1 month old).

If you deviate from CSI's recipe be prepared for a different beer, although still a damn good one.

 

[LakesideBrewing]

Yep, great recipe!

I just took 1st place in the Belgian Strong category with this beer at the 20th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition. Thanks for all your research, CSI!

-Mike

 

[jtp137]

Congrats

 

[brew_darrymore]

Yep, great recipe!

I just took 1st place in the Belgian Strong category with this beer at the 20th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition. Thanks for all your research, CSI!

-Mike

Congratulations Mike!

How long did you have the beer bottle conditioned for?

 

[LakesideBrewing]

Congratulations Mike!

How long did you have the beer bottle conditioned for?

Thanks!

It's been in the bottle for one year now. I remember cracking one open at around the 6 month mark and it just wasn't there yet; even the carbonation was a little off. But it is hitting its prime right about now.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Yep, great recipe!

I just took 1st place in the Belgian Strong category with this beer at the 20th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition. Thanks for all your research, CSI!

-Mike

+1 A very serious win!

 

[jtp137]

Yep, great recipe!

I just took 1st place in the Belgian Strong category with this beer at the 20th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition. Thanks for all your research, CSI!

-Mike

Did you follow the fermentation schedule pitch at 65 and slow ramp to 80 in 7 days

 

[LakesideBrewing]

Did you follow the fermentation schedule pitch at 65 and slow ramp to 80 in 7 days

Hi,

I pitched at 64* then ramped up over 10 days, ending at 76*. My secondary was 60-62* for almost 2 months.

 

[jtp137]

My first attempt is close to a month in the keg and its already fantastic! How am I going to keep my paws off of it

 

[catdaddy66]

Yep, great recipe!

I just took 1st place in the Belgian Strong category with this beer at the 20th Annual Boston Homebrew Competition. Thanks for all your research, CSI!

-Mike

Congratulations! That is a "strong" showing... Lol

 

[user 141939]

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1433257122.094947.jpg

Krausen shot. Hit all my numbers and strictly following temp schedule.

This was day 3 I believe. Its about 4 gallons in a 6 gallon carboy.

Not sure how much yeast I added. I had about 75 ml slurry from previous starter. I mad a 1 liter starter on a stirplate with this and pitched after about 12 hours.

 

[Burgermeister]

Grist/Fermentables
----------------------------------
8.00 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Belgian (2.0 SRM)
7.00 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) Belgian (3.0 SRM)
2.50 lbs D-180 Candi Syrup (180.0 SRM)

Mash Steps
---------------
Mash at 149.0 F 90 min
Fly or batch sparge 168.0 F

Boil Steps
---------------
Boil 90 minutes
Add hops and Servomyces per schedule, (make sure to open the Servomyces cap).
Stir-in adjuncts at 10 minutes prior to flame-out, (alternatively, stir in adjuncts at flame-out)

Boil Ingredients
---------------------
1.00 oz Brewer's Gold [8.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min
1.00 oz Hallertau Mittelfrueh [5.00%] - Boil 30 minutes
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [4.10 %] - Boil 15.0 min
1.00 Items Servomyces - Boil 5.0 mins


Yeast Ingredients
----------------------------------
320 Billion cells or 3200 ml stir-plate starter seeded with 1.0 vial Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530)
***Krausen yeast method to be added here


Clear wort boil-down notes (Optional Step):
-------------------
(Optionally) perform a separate boil-down of 1.00 gallon of vorlaufed wort into a syrup using the following steps:
1. Extract 1.0 gallon of wort at the beginning of clear runoff into a 3-5 gallon pot.
2. Boil the wort down until it becomes a dark mahogany brown and is bubbling with large bubbles.
3. Be careful NOT to burn the maltose syrup.
4. The result will be approximately 24-26 ounces of syrup.
5. Re-crash the syrup by adding wort from the ongoing main boil.
6. Pour the dissolved liquid back in to the main boil.


Fermentation Pitch Notes:
---------------------
Chill wort to 63-64F
Oxygenate chilled wort to 8-10PPM by diffusing pure O2 via .05 micron diffuser for 90-120 seconds.
Pitch decanted yeast starter, adding chilled wort to the yeast flask to clear remaining yeast as necessary.
Ramp fermentation temp (evenly over time) from 63 - 80F over 7 days.


Fermentation Process Notes
---------------------
1/5/2012 - Primary Fermentation (7 days at 63F ending at 80.0 F)
1/23/2012 - Secondary Fermentation (3 -10 days at 78.0 F ending at 60.0 F)
1/26/2012 - Tertiary Fermentation (40 days at 50.0 F ending at 50.0 F)

Final Aged Ale
---------------------
In the end you should have a mohagany dark ale that is fragrant, malty, plummy, with a pillowy tan head and considerable Belgian lace. Like the pic below:

Sweet! Starring this one too!

 

[kdw2pd]

A couple of questions for CSI:
1.) I dig your krausen capture setup! For those of us that don't have your gear, would it work to take either snug tubing or stopper/tubing combination in the vial on the stirplate, and run it to a similar vial set a little higher than vial #1? Provided it's airtight and sanitized.
2.) How long can I store the "top-cropped" yeast before making a starter, while maintaining the high yeast vitality?