Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I'm looking forward to seeing your write up on krausening, as I've brewed this twice now and ended up at 1.020 both times. This time instead of bottling a syrupy mess, I pitched some brett brux into secondary that I had on hand, and I'm letting it ride. Should be interesting if nothing else. The first batch I brewed is about 10 months in the bottle now and tasting better and better, just a bit too sweet. I'd probably be totally over brewing this beer again if I couldn't taste the potential for greatness in it.

Anyway, both times I've made appropriate sized starters, chilled decanted, pitched at 65, and temp controlled the the rise up to 80 over 7 days. Not sure what more I could do (aside from this krausen for which you speak of) to get this to finish out the rest of the way. Hopefully, if I do brew it again, that will get me there.

Cheers!

It's coming. Slowly but surely...

 

[catdaddy66]

This Sunday I am pulling the trigger and making recipe #2 from the OP! Can't wait but I'm brewing with someone and compromises will need to be made. But he has the proper temp control so it's necessary. We will split a 6 gallon batch. I'm excited for my first attempt at a quad!

 

[BrewerTom]

I must have underpitched, I'm coming up on two weeks and I'm almost there with my gravity. It's currently at 1.014, so just a tad bit more to go. Not sure if I should continue with it at 80F or drop it a bit before crashing it.

 

[tehnick]

I must have underpitched, I'm coming up on two weeks and I'm almost there with my gravity. It's currently at 1.014, so just a tad bit more to go. Not sure if I should continue with it at 80F or drop it a bit before crashing it.

Give it maybe one more week. If it stays the same, I'd ramp it down. My first attempt attenuated to 1.016 and the second attempt hit 1.010. I think part of it was the pitch rate, because I lost way less yeast in the blowoff on the second run being better prepared to handle it.

 

[jtp137]

I must have underpitched, I'm coming up on two weeks and I'm almost there with my gravity. It's currently at 1.014, so just a tad bit more to go. Not sure if I should continue with it at 80F or drop it a bit before crashing it.

Thats what happened to mine. I ended up repitching a 500ml starter in another week dropped to 1.012

 

[dynohack]

Hopefully this isn't a silly question and I haven't been able to find it specifically asked in this thread yet.

I'm planning to attempt this recipe as 5.5 gallons as stated, however I'm concerned about headroom in my fermentor. I have the 7 gallon SS brew bucket. Will I have enough head room? Should I connect a blow-off-to-sanitized jar solution to attempt top cropping? (like so: http://i.imgur.com/wTIRhzT.jpg) Otherwise should I try to scale it down?

Just wondering if people who have experience with this process can share their thoughts.

 

[jtp137]

Hopefully this isn't a silly question and I haven't been able to find it specifically asked in this thread yet.



I'm planning to attempt this recipe as 5.5 gallons as stated, however I'm concerned about headroom in my fermentor. I have the 7 gallon SS brew bucket. Will I have enough head room? Should I connect a blow-off-to-sanitized jar solution to attempt top cropping? (like so: http://i.imgur.com/wTIRhzT.jpg) Otherwise should I try to scale it down?



Just wondering if people who have experience with this process can share their thoughts.

Yes it will blow out. This yeast needs lots of headspace. Get some fermcap it will help

 

[dynohack]

Yes it will blow out. This yeast needs lots of headspace. Get some fermcap it will help

Thanks, will do that. I assume that even with fermcap i'd still need to plan for a rather robust blow-off solution?

 

[VulgarCelt]

Thanks, will do that. I assume that even with fermcap i'd still need to plan for a rather robust blow-off solution?

I have made this twice now. I always use a blowoff tube these days but you will certainly need on for this. I busted the center out of an old barrel style airlock. That fits perfectly into both the bung on one end and the 1/2" OD tube I use. I stick the far end in a 1 gal jug of idophor and water. Viola instant blowoff tube...

 

[mbbransc]

I must have underpitched, I'm coming up on two weeks and I'm almost there with my gravity. It's currently at 1.014, so just a tad bit more to go. Not sure if I should continue with it at 80F or drop it a bit before crashing it.

I started at 68° ambient for 3-days, then increased a few degrees a day up to 84° and held for a week. Then let it sit at 68° ambient again for another 2wks. Went from 1.090 to 1.010. Used WY1762.

 

[catdaddy66]

I just bought the ingredients for this! Sunday morning we will begin the mash and hopefully be pitching by 3pm. I'll be brewing at my LHBS and splitting the batch with the owner for letting me use his equipment. He's not big on Belgian beers but I think I've got his interest piqued on this. He told me he's reading up on the recipe. Let's do this!

 

[jtp137]

I started at 68° ambient for 3-days, then increased a few degrees a day up to 84° and held for a week. Then let it sit at 68° ambient again for another 2wks. Went from 1.090 to 1.010. Used WY1762.

I believe that's the rocherfort strain should taste slightly different

 

[catdaddy66]

Making this as I type!View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428852663.320769.jpg

Those are my brew buds, Jake and Eric.

 

[catdaddy66]

And this is pre boilView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1428856035.466515.jpg

Post boil OG was 1.091...! BAM!!!

I love hitting the numbers dead on.

 

[Kharnynb]

I usually go straight from the primary to bottles (or keg). It will age well in bottles, although there are bound to be subtle differences than following the recipe exactly.

I admire your patience if you are aging for a year. It will be tasting great before that.

do you do primary at 80 for how long?
and at 50 for how long?

 

[Kee]

do you do primary at 80 for how long?
and at 50 for how long?

Typically I let it rise to around 80 until final gravity is reached. I cold crash until the yeast flocculates well. I don't have a strict time table. I bottle and try to wait several months before drinking the bulk of it.

Following CSI's recipe with the extended secondary would be ideal, I just don't have the setup to do that. The beer ages well in bottles and I do that at room temperature (68-73F).

I would just add that with a proper pitch final gravity can be reached in 7 or 8 days, but I let it go for several more days at least before cold crashing. I don't rush that stage.

 

[Kharnynb]

Thanks, I also don't have a good enough setup to risk extended sitting around in fermenters(no carboy and not wanting to risk it in a plasic bucket).

I'll go for 12 days and then take first sg measure and see from there.

 

[tehnick]

Typically I let it rise to around 80 until final gravity is reached. I cold crash until the yeast flocculates well. I don't have a strict time table. I bottle and try to wait several months before drinking the bulk of it.

Following CSI's recipe with the extended secondary would be ideal, I just don't have the setup to do that. The beer ages well in bottles and I do that at room temperature (68-73F).

I would just add that with a proper pitch final gravity can be reached in 7 or 8 days, but I let it go for several more days at least before cold crashing. I don't rush that stage.

Pretty much this too. Best advice I can give on making this beer is make sure your pitch rate is good or you'll be pissed later when it gets stuck at 1.030 and you have to pitch more yeast into a hostile environment and hope for the best. Also, hydrometer. Don't go based on what works for others and their timeline. It's totally possible for it to happen the same way for you, but it's a good rule of thumb to rely on the hydrometer and make adjustments as needed. Fermentations can vary. Brew on.

 

[Hoppity]

Placeholder...looks delicious.

 

[kshuler]

Question on what to do... I have a HERMS system with dead on temp control (a Kal Clone) and mashed at 150, pitched at just under 65 degrees (4 smack packs yeast), and ramped over 48 hours with brewbelts controlled by a brew-bit to 83 degrees. I held it there for 5 days and let it drop to 72 degrees. At the end of the 5 days at 83 degrees I am still at 1.022. Trying to figure out what to do about this to get it dried out. Should I pitch more yeast while held at 72 degrees, or just wait a while. It seems everyone gets to 1.012 pretty quickly, and I am very confused why this didn't attenuate more given the 83 degree temps (measured by a thermowell in the conical). Any thoughts?

 

[Kee]

Question on what to do... I have a HERMS system with dead on temp control (a Kal Clone) and mashed at 150, pitched at just under 65 degrees (4 smack packs yeast), and ramped over 48 hours with brewbelts controlled by a brew-bit to 83 degrees. I held it there for 5 days and let it drop to 72 degrees. At the end of the 5 days at 83 degrees I am still at 1.022. Trying to figure out what to do about this to get it dried out. Should I pitch more yeast while held at 72 degrees, or just wait a while. It seems everyone gets to 1.012 pretty quickly, and I am very confused why this didn't attenuate more given the 83 degree temps (measured by a thermowell in the conical). Any thoughts?

What size batch was this? Re-pitching in such a short time is a judgement call in my book, assuming you are confident the pitch was adequate. You can get the temperature back to around 83 and see what happens.

On the other hand if it were me and I had the yeast I would be tempted to re-pitch if the gravity doesn't go down in a couple of days.

 

[orangehero]

If you underpitched it can take a little longer to fully attenuate.

 

[kshuler]

It was an intentional under pitch so I could get more ester development. This was an 11 gallon batch. Perhaps before panicking I should try another gravity reading in a week and see where it goes.

 

[jtp137]

It was an intentional under pitch so I could get more ester development. This was an 11 gallon batch. Perhaps before panicking I should try another gravity reading in a week and see where it goes.

Looks like you ramped up your temp from 65 to 83 in 48 hours, combine that with an underpitch I am curious if you got some fusel alcohol in their

 

[kshuler]

Looks like you ramped up your temp from 65 to 83 in 48 hours, combine that with an underpitch I am curious if you got some fusel alcohol in their

I'll find out soon enough. The sample I tasted was a bit warm, but I didn't really get the taste of fusels. But it was a yeasty sample, and I don't really know what it will be like when the yeast drops. I guess I'll find out in a few days when I check gravity again.

 

[jtp137]

I'll find out soon enough. The sample I tasted was a bit warm, but I didn't really get the taste of fusels. But it was a yeasty sample, and I don't really know what it will be like when the yeast drops. I guess I'll find out in a few days when I check gravity again.

I also noticed you dropped the temp after five days to the 70's. I noticed with the wlp530 if you drop the temp before it finishes it has the tendency to crash. Do you have the ability to keep it around 80 until it finishes

 

[kshuler]

Yes, I can do that, but thought I remembered reading somewhere that it was best to let the temp drop "naturally." Since my basement is 58 degrees right now, it is doubtful that the fermentation temp would climb naturally to anywhere north of 70 degrees, and after fermentation slows it would rapidly climb back down to the low 60s. I have heard that the yeast crashes if it drops too fast, but I don't know if that is the issue or not. I'll get a gravity sample tonight and see where it has gone. I haven't seen any bubbling for a long time, though, so not much hope the gravity is dropping.

 

[kshuler]

OK, just rechecked. It is at 1.021. I think I'll re-pitch a few smack packs with a 2l starter and see what happens. Should I heat it back up to 83, or leave it at 72 where it is now?

 

[dunnry]

OK, just rechecked. It is at 1.021. I think I'll re-pitch a few smack packs with a 2l starter and see what happens. Should I heat it back up to 83, or leave it at 72 where it is now?

You are in a tought situation here. With the available sugars and the stress of the almost-to-attenuation environment (i.e. high alcohol), you will need a massive pitch to move the needle. Just putting the yeast into your fermenters will likely do not much to nothing. I have tried this before and leaned the hard way how to waste $7 smack packs. As well, the issue is prob not the temp between 72 and 83 - both will ferment just fine (the higher temp with more esters and fusols). What I would suggest is that you rack the beer from carboy to carboy and add your yeast. There are a few situations where racking will stimulate the yeast (move it around enough) to encourage it to start. Combined with your new batch of fresh yeast, it might be enough - but you need a massive pitch of yeast to withstand that high alchohol environment.

 

[kshuler]

So, then, I have a few options. I can't actually move it to carboys right now as it is a 10 gallon batch and I only have one carboy left. I guess I could buy another carboy tomorrow. But I also have three packets of Nottingham yeast, which has always done a pretty good job in the past of chewing through the sugars. Given that this has gone from 1.094 down to 1.020, and most of the flavor from yeast has developed already, would it be OK to cool it to 68 and add all three packs of Notty? Don't know what that would do to the flavor profile, but I am thinking this may chew through some of the stuff that the 3787 did not, and since it is so far along maybe it won't affect the flavor so much?

 

[jtp137]

So, then, I have a few options. I can't actually move it to carboys right now as it is a 10 gallon batch and I only have one carboy left. I guess I could buy another carboy tomorrow. But I also have three packets of Nottingham yeast, which has always done a pretty good job in the past of chewing through the sugars. Given that this has gone from 1.094 down to 1.020, and most of the flavor from yeast has developed already, would it be OK to cool it to 68 and add all three packs of Notty? Don't know what that would do to the flavor profile, but I am thinking this may chew through some of the stuff that the 3787 did not, and since it is so far along maybe it won't affect the flavor so much?

I repitched mine was stuck around 1.015. I warmed it to the mis 70's and made a large 5 liter starter, crashed and decanted. Then I put another liter in and waited till I had krausen on the starter and repitched the entire amount took around a week dropped to 1.012

 

[dunnry]

So, then, I have a few options. I can't actually move it to carboys right now as it is a 10 gallon batch and I only have one carboy left. I guess I could buy another carboy tomorrow. But I also have three packets of Nottingham yeast, which has always done a pretty good job in the past of chewing through the sugars. Given that this has gone from 1.094 down to 1.020, and most of the flavor from yeast has developed already, would it be OK to cool it to 68 and add all three packs of Notty? Don't know what that would do to the flavor profile, but I am thinking this may chew through some of the stuff that the 3787 did not, and since it is so far along maybe it won't affect the flavor so much?

You have enough carboys if I understand you correctly (you have 3 total). Just move one to the empty and then the other to the newly empty (you don't even have to clean it), and finally the first one to the empty again. What you are doing is efficiently stirring the yeast without aerating the hell out of it.

Regarding the dry yeast, I think it depends on how you pitch it. If you just dump it in dry, the yeast will likely die instantly as they rehydrate in a high alcohol environment. If you rehydrate the yeast, maybe. I don't think Notty will have much impact on flavor at this point. The quality of rehydrated dry yeast is not the same as a starter, so it might or might not work.

However, if it were me, I would first try racking the carboys and waiting a day or two to see if you get airlock activity again. I was able to attenuate a few points just doing that. If that didn't work, I would go with a massive 5L starter with fresh yeast (your choice, but 3787 is good if you have it around). Perform the same trick, but add 2.5L in each of fresh yeast as you rack and keep the temp up in the high 70's.

 

[tehnick]

So, then, I have a few options. I can't actually move it to carboys right now as it is a 10 gallon batch and I only have one carboy left. I guess I could buy another carboy tomorrow. But I also have three packets of Nottingham yeast, which has always done a pretty good job in the past of chewing through the sugars. Given that this has gone from 1.094 down to 1.020, and most of the flavor from yeast has developed already, would it be OK to cool it to 68 and add all three packs of Notty? Don't know what that would do to the flavor profile, but I am thinking this may chew through some of the stuff that the 3787 did not, and since it is so far along maybe it won't affect the flavor so much?

If you pitch more yeast, I'd pitch a brett strain at this point if it were my beer and make sure the next batch gets the right pitch. I think Wyeast 5526 would compliment the 3787 better in my opinion. Just a thought. Ultimately it's your call, but the wild yeast will definitely be more suited for a hostile environment to eat away. You're currently at 77.2% attenuation, give or take a little.

 

[kshuler]

Thanks for the help. I actually am fermenting in a 12.5gallon conical, so I don't have 3 carboys, unfortunately. Just one. I almost spent another 45 dollars today at the homebrew store to pick up another one, but thought it wouldn't be a good use of my money, given that I will almost always ferment in a conical. I bought two packs of 3787, and have them going like gangbusters in a 2l starter, but unfortunately I don't have a 5l flask... ordered one though, just now. I'll dump trub and then add the extra yeast at high kräusen tonight and pray for the best. Otherwise will just keg at this gravity and say we are good, although I'll be a little disappointed given the price of making this beer!

 

[jtp137]

Thanks for the help. I actually am fermenting in a 12.5gallon conical, so I don't have 3 carboys, unfortunately. Just one. I almost spent another 45 dollars today at the homebrew store to pick up another one, but thought it wouldn't be a good use of my money, given that I will almost always ferment in a conical. I bought two packs of 3787, and have them going like gangbusters in a 2l starter, but unfortunately I don't have a 5l flask... ordered one though, just now. I'll dump trub and then add the extra yeast at high kräusen tonight and pray for the best. Otherwise will just keg at this gravity and say we are good, although I'll be a little disappointed given the price of making this beer!

When I repitched I was skeptical, but it ended up working out. Looks like your on the right track you need a lot of yeast

 

[GregKelley]

OK, just rechecked. It is at 1.021. I think I'll re-pitch a few smack packs with a 2l starter and see what happens. Should I heat it back up to 83, or leave it at 72 where it is now?

When I had a stuck Belgian, I repitched with WLP099. That stuff will eat anything in any environment. I don't recall if I even made a starter.

 

[dunnry]

Thanks for the help. I actually am fermenting in a 12.5gallon conical, so I don't have 3 carboys, unfortunately. Just one. I almost spent another 45 dollars today at the homebrew store to pick up another one, but thought it wouldn't be a good use of my money, given that I will almost always ferment in a conical. I bought two packs of 3787, and have them going like gangbusters in a 2l starter, but unfortunately I don't have a 5l flask... ordered one though, just now. I'll dump trub and then add the extra yeast at high kräusen tonight and pray for the best. Otherwise will just keg at this gravity and say we are good, although I'll be a little disappointed given the price of making this beer!

I hope it works! Just for next time, know that there are diminishing returns in a 2L starter. Pitching 1 vs 2 smack packs into it won't do a lot for you in terms of total overall yeast in the flask. There's only so much sugar in there and if anything, you are encouraging them NOT to divide by overpitching into the starter. Yeast divide and multiply when there is food and oxygen. Put too many in at first and they out compete each other and won't propogate well.

I would definitely encourage you to buy a 5L flask if you are regularly doing 10+ gal batches. It's the only way you will propogate enough yeast before pitching. Even for a 5L starter, you only want 1 smack pack. Good luck!

Also, I should note that I use a 5L for my 12 gal batches and it is about the perfect amount of cells (a slight underpitch for esters) for this recipe.

 

[dunnry]

When I had a stuck Belgian, I repitched with WLP099. That stuff will eat anything in any environment. I don't recall if I even made a starter.

Then you need to make sure you stop it when it hits 1.012 and don't bottle condition (keg only cold). As you and I know well, WLP099 is a beast and it took a much higher barleywine down into the single digits. If you let it go, your belgian might be very dry.

 

[av8bdriver]

I had the same problem. Tried several of the mentioned fixes. Only the WLP099 did the job. Good luck!

 

[jtp137]

Why do some people have trouble with this yeast. This yeast hates me I have had no issue with wlp500 but this one always gets stuck