Belgian Dark Strong Ale Westvleteren 12 Clone - Multiple Award Winner

[Bottoms_Up]

Ahh, that clears it up. The whole 2 recipesin one thread thing threw me off. Thanks!

I just edited the beginning of my post (Message #21) to try to provide some more clarity. Hope that helps.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I brewed a similar attempt at a nice quad/Westy clone recently and just moved to the keezer for teritary ferm today (40*.) Had a question though... reading through this thread you have teritary temps listed on page one as 50* and ending at 50* (40 days). On page two, you say 60* and ending at 36* (50 days.)

I'm probably just going to end up leaving it at 40* for 45-60 and bottling it, but was curious as to the differences in your posts and which ended in a better clone, or if there was any noteable difference?

Thanks!

For the record I did the following:

10lbs Belgian Pils
5lbs Belgian Pale
1lb Special B
2lbs D-180

.75oz Magnum @60 with a 90 minute mash (150*) and boil. OG was 1.088 and FG was 1.008, today's sample was f-ing phenomenal.

As a variation it looks good and sounds good. Your FG was way down there so I'm assuming you had a very high quality pitch, (Westmalle?). How did the magnum hops come through?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Speaking of deviating from the recipe, just a quick comment and question. My first batch I had a wort chiller leak and ended up with a low OG (1.076). It turned out to be maybe the best beer I've ever made. I am sure that you have the process very well dialed in by now, but do you have anything to share about variations from the recipe that turned out well?

Yes, I know that the question is slightly off subject (since we are cloning the Westy 12) but relevant in the sense that most of us do not have the same controls as a commercial operation.

Thanks again for a great product.

If your gravity was at 1.076 and the pitch was for 1.090 then the ale will be drier and have a hoppier aroma and palate over time. I have had a Westy 12 brew 'fail' at 1.082 due to not paying attention to the sparge volume. It was dry and hoppy but still carried that subtle plum profile and candi syrup finish. It was really good.

 

[Kee]

If your gravity was at 1.076 and the pitch was for 1.090 then the ale will be drier and have a hoppier aroma and palate over time. I have had a Westy 12 brew 'fail' at 1.082 due to not paying attention to the sparge volume. It was dry and hoppy but still carried that subtle plum profile and candi syrup finish. It was really good.

Thanks for responding. My latest batch (just put in the fermenter) the gravity was almost on the money (1.089). And I finally remembered to leave enough headroom in the carboy! I blew off a lot of yeast the last two batches.

My low gravity batch was very well balanced, but it may be because I started using a hop basket and I didn't get full utilization from the hops. I am still playing around with that. The little bit of extra dryness was fine for my taste.

 

[ruger988]

As a variation it looks good and sounds good. Your FG was way down there so I'm assuming you had a very high quality pitch, (Westmalle?). How did the magnum hops come through?

I was shocked how low it was, especially considering some issues I had. I actually checked it with three different hydros to make sure. Did a three liter starter with two packs of 3787. Magnum may not have been the best choice for long term aging but they're showing through just enough to know they're there at the moment, happens to be the way I like it though. I'll be giving Brewer's Gold a shot next time. Went with Magnum (and my recipe) as I came up with and decided on the recipe just before I found the original Westy clone thread.

Funny you quoted me today as I was logging on to send you a message, check you inbox in a few!

 

[ruger988]

I also didn't add the D-180 until high krausen. Split my 5.5 gal batch between two fermenters and pitched 1lb to each about 36 hours after pitching my big starter. Think that may have contributed to such a low FG, or was it ust that I had such a big/fresh starter?

 

[Kee]

I also didn't add the D-180 until high krausen. Split my 5.5 gal batch between two fermenters and pitched 1lb to each about 36 hours after pitching my big starter. Think that may have contributed to such a low FG, or was it ust that I had such a big/fresh starter?

Were there any traces of the D-180 left in the fermenter? I remember saq in the other thread used to add D-2 in the secondary but abandoned that practice after finding some left in his conical.

 

[whiskeyjack]

This looks like a killer recipe. I want to add it to my recipes I have in brewmate but what style do I put it under. Belgian Dark Strong ale ? I could put it under any thing really because I don't plan on tweaking this recipe one bit, but my ocd won't let me haha.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I was shocked how low it was, especially considering some issues I had. I actually checked it with three different hydros to make sure. Did a three liter starter with two packs of 3787. Magnum may not have been the best choice for long term aging but they're showing through just enough to know they're there at the moment, happens to be the way I like it though. I'll be giving Brewer's Gold a shot next time. Went with Magnum (and my recipe) as I came up with and decided on the recipe just before I found the original Westy clone thread.

Funny you quoted me today as I was logging on to send you a message, check you inbox in a few!

In the past on IPA's and our favorite RIS we use US Magnum in whole flower. I love the hop and would like to know how it ages out in your Westy variation.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

This looks like a killer recipe. I want to add it to my recipes I have in brewmate but what style do I put it under. Belgian Dark Strong ale ? I could put it under any thing really because I don't plan on tweaking this recipe one bit, but my ocd won't let me haha.

Yep, Belgian Dark Strong.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Were there any traces of the D-180 left in the fermenter? I remember saq in the other thread used to add D-2 in the secondary but abandoned that practice after finding some left in his conical.

Good point to bring up. If adding adjuncts to secondary or a mid-primary (high krausen), it helps to dilute. Diluting 1 cup H2O to 1 lb syrup requires a boil and chill but the result helps when mixing with chilled wort.

 

[ruger988]

Were there any traces of the D-180 left in the fermenter? I remember saq in the other thread used to add D-2 in the secondary but abandoned that practice after finding some left in his conical.

Racked from those fermenters to a better bottle and didn't notice anything but a nice thick yeast cake left behind.

 

[Sippin37]

I brewed this 10 days ago with an OG of 1.090 and the SG is currently 1.016. I was hoping for 1.012. Ferm chamber is still at 82F hoping that will help it get a little lower. Bubbles only every 20-30 seconds though, not sure how many more sugars will get eaten. What would be a good FG for this one?

 

[Likefully]

I have encountered a catastrophe: There is no pilsner malt available at any homebrew shops in South Africa at the moment

But - I have just over 2kg of pilsner malt in stock - and fortunately I can get pale malt. So should I make up the balance of the pilsner with pale malt or wait until this lack of stock is sorted out?

 

[meadowstream]

Use the pale!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[joshrosborne]

I brewed this yesterday; mostly everything was the same. Went with 8 pounds pilsner, 8 ponds 2-row, and 2 pounds of the D-180. I only went with 1oz of Northern Brewer because I wanted a little but lower IBU on it. 2 liter starter of WLP530. I ended up with 5.25gl of 1.092 wort. I have it fermenting in the chamber at 78 ambient right now.

It's happily gurgling away in the blowoff growler I have set up. I used Fermcap, so no real krausen to speak of, but there is so much pressure built up in the bucket that the lid is bowed out. Hopefully it stays on overnight. Once primary is over, I'm going to rack onto some cut up bourbon barrel staves and the bourbon they've been soaking in. Thank you for the great recipe!

 

[Hanso]

there is so much pressure built up in the bucket that the lid is bowed out. Hopefully it stays on overnight.

Did I get this right?
Is the lid on tight without an airlock or something? Or your blow off is clogged?

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I brewed this 10 days ago with an OG of 1.090 and the SG is currently 1.016. I was hoping for 1.012. Ferm chamber is still at 82F hoping that will help it get a little lower. Bubbles only every 20-30 seconds though, not sure how many more sugars will get eaten. What would be a good FG for this one?

1.012-1.013 depending on the polysacs. You're in great shape. Bring the temp back down to 78-80F and wait another 2 weeks.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

Use the pale!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

Absolutely. An all Pale Westy is a fantastic variation. Just completed one and bottled it 3 weeks ago. It has a moderate amount of carbonation now and the taste test was about 3 notches better than good

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

I brewed this yesterday; mostly everything was the same. Went with 8 pounds pilsner, 8 ponds 2-row, and 2 pounds of the D-180. I only went with 1oz of Northern Brewer because I wanted a little but lower IBU on it. 2 liter starter of WLP530. I ended up with 5.25gl of 1.092 wort. I have it fermenting in the chamber at 78 ambient right now.

It's happily gurgling away in the blowoff growler I have set up. I used Fermcap, so no real krausen to speak of, but there is so much pressure built up in the bucket that the lid is bowed out. Hopefully it stays on overnight. Once primary is over, I'm going to rack onto some cut up bourbon barrel staves and the bourbon they've been soaking in. Thank you for the great recipe!

It sounds like it could be clogging in the airlock. If it's bowing out it should be bubbling like crazy and throwing krausen down the capture tube.

The soaked bourbon oak cubes sounds like a really nice variation. We're experimenting with timed small batch, (5 gallon), medium toast oak barrel aging, 1 month, 2 month, & 5 month. I have no idea how it will turn out but my guess is it will be goooood

 

[joshrosborne]

Did I get this right?
Is the lid on tight without an airlock or something? Or your blow off is clogged?

No, it's not clogged. The CO2 is just building up faster than it can vent through the blowoff tube. It's going crazy in the growler full of sanitizer I have going, but it's still not fast enough. I haven't gone down to look at it this morning, but I'm hoping the lid is still on.

Edit: I just checked it and all is well. Still gurgling away. Looks like the Fermcap did it's job because there is no krausen in the tubing. I almost knocked myself out with all the CO2 when I opened the freezer ; )

Had to start the cooling side of the temperature control because it was starting to creep over 80 degrees.

 

[GregKelley]

It sounds like it could be clogging in the airlock. If it's bowing out it should be bubbling like crazy and throwing krausen down the capture tube.

The soaked bourbon oak cubes sounds like a really nice variation. We're experimenting with timed small batch, (5 gallon), medium toast oak barrel aging, 1 month, 2 month, & 5 month. I have no idea how it will turn out but my guess is it will be goooood

From doing a bunch of barrel aging, not for souring, here are my tips:

1. Anything more than a month could be overkill when dealing with a 5 gallon barrel.

2. As you re-use a barrel, each subsequent use takes a little longer to extract the flavors and aroma. Still, I would not recommend more than a month.

-Greg

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

From doing a bunch of barrel aging, not for souring, here are my tips:

1. Anything more than a month could be overkill when dealing with a 5 gallon barrel.

2. As you re-use a barrel, each subsequent use takes a little longer to extract the flavors and aroma. Still, I would not recommend more than a month.

-Greg

Thanks Greg. Your advice is consistent with everything I've read so far on small barrel aging.

 

[ruger988]

So, another question for the pros....

I raced to a better bottle for secondary and am using the same vessel for tertiary in the chest freezer. I have a good yeast cake going on in the BB and since this is all new ground to me I'm not sure if I should be worried or not. Should I rack to a new vessel to get it off the cake or let it sit another ~50 or so days as planned? Freezer is set at 46* FWIW.

 

[CSI - CandiSyrup]

So, another question for the pros....

I raced to a better bottle for secondary and am using the same vessel for tertiary in the chest freezer. I have a good yeast cake going on in the BB and since this is all new ground to me I'm not sure if I should be worried or not. Should I rack to a new vessel to get it off the cake or let it sit another ~50 or so days as planned? Freezer is set at 46* FWIW.

Removing the ale from the flocc'd primary yeast cake is a good idea assuming a diacetyl rest is complete. Autolysis is not normally a problem on standard ales but it can be a problem in high gravity ales. If the gravity is down to 1.012-1.013 the ale will be in good shape to move to brightening (tertiary).

If using a conical, having a large discharge diameter is helpful in dumping the primary yeast to maintain secondary in the same vessel. (If using a BB, then it will be siphoned to the next sterile vessel and off of the cake). Note: I try to mention that using plastics when brewing this ale may not be the best option. (PET, PP, HDPE and LDPE will eventually sluff the plastics in higher alcohol environments). Of these PET is probably the most resistant to alcohol.

 

[ruger988]

I'm down to 1.008. Debating the risks of moving to a third vessel vs just going ahead and bottling a little sooner now.

 

[Kee]

I'm down to 1.008. Debating the risks of moving to a third vessel vs just going ahead and bottling a little sooner now.

Even though bulk aging is the preferred method, I've bottled 3 weeks from brew day with excellent results. It will age in bottles (but I have a hard time keeping my hands off long enough to find out when it will peak).

 

[Likefully]

Is there any problem with doing the wort boil down in the kettle with some of the first runnings and then putting the rest of the wort (after the sparge is complete) on top - and then begin the boil?

The only reason I want to do this is to reduce the number of pots i dirty

 

[ruger988]

Is there any problem with doing the wort boil down in the kettle with some of the first runnings and then putting the rest of the wort (after the sparge is complete) on top - and then begin the boil?

The only reason I want to do this is to reduce the number of pots i dirty

Other than taking a little more tiem I don't see much of a difference doign it that way. Where will you keep the rest of the first runnings while you boil it down? Seems like you'll be dirtying something else no matter what.

 

[Kee]

Is there any problem with doing the wort boil down in the kettle with some of the first runnings and then putting the rest of the wort (after the sparge is complete) on top - and then begin the boil?

The only reason I want to do this is to reduce the number of pots i dirty

It has to be almost constantly stirred when it starts getting thick to keep from burning it. That may be a little awkward in a large kettle, but other than that it should work fine.