Well damn...what did I do wrong?

[universalfrost]

Get yourself a 2000ml erlymeyer flask (Pyrex or karter scientific) from amazon or eBay and a stir plate and make starters using simple light dme and 1000ml of distilled water.

stirplate and brewers best make some cheap entry level ones or you can score some used scientific lab grade models if you look...

the one in the left is a stirplate model that is cheap and works fine. The other two are lab grade and work very well but I keep them on timers of 30 on 1.5 hr off because they also produce slight amount of heat..

these three starters are using yeast that is over two years old (see my thread on them). As you can see all are being brought back from the dead and are very healthy...

 

[AJinJacksonville]

In regards to your question about the frozen bottles, from my limited understanding of science, bigger bottles (liter bottles, etc.) does not mean more efficient as it relates to dropping the temp in your swamp cooler. I freeze several small plastic water bottles and switch them out once they melt. It is a constant switch out, which will eventually convince you to build/invest in a fermentation chamber, chilling and/or heating system. Several will also probably agree that once they started controlling the fermentation temperature with a chamber or whatnot, their brewing quality also improved.

Glad to see that your fermentation is underway!

 

[Schwimbody]

It's now furious with great looking green chunks in it. Very pleased

 

[Schwimbody]

Wednesday morning and the activity has died down in the carboy. Should I be concerned? It was nice and active for a couple of days but has relented. There is still foam on top. Is that a normal schedule for fermentation?

 

[Sebastian Weetabix]

That stimulus check can buy just so much.
Trust the process.

 

[Schwimbody]

It's funny but I don't qualify for a stimulus check.

 

[coonmanx]

Wednesday morning and the activity has died down in the carboy. Should I be concerned? It was nice and active for a couple of days but has relented. There is still foam on top. Is that a normal schedule for fermentation?

Your primary has just crashed after a few days of full on fermentation. This is normal.

Now for me, I immediately go to a secondary, which is a smaller carboy (5 gallon) and then fill that to within a few inches of the top, up into the neck. That would be called secondary fermentation. Many here will tell you not to do that for various reasons but I am a firm believer in it because it allows the beer to settle out and I get a lot less sediment. So you will have to figure out in the future whether or not you want to do that. Do some research and see what you think. Some will tell you that it could lead to oxidation but I have never had any issue with that in over 30 years time. So that decision will have to be left up to you. As I said, do your research and then figure out if it is right for you. You might try it on a future batch or you might just decide to never do it. Your decision. I always go to secondary on the same day that I see the head crash on primary....

Either way things are going just fine for you. Don't worry. The yeast just ran out of food. It is telling you that.

 

[coonmanx]

Most folks frown upon using secondary fermenters.

As I said, here is that advice not to do a secondary....

I don't agree with that advice. I actually recommend secondary but I may be in the minority on this. The reason I do recommend it is that I have made many great beers using secondary and have gotten rave reviews on my beer. A batch that I did this year was an Old Peculiar clone recipe and I got comments like "You should bottle and sell this".... We drained an entire 5 gallon keg of it in just 3 hours.

But I head to secondary on the same day as the primary crashes and make sure to leave only a small amount of air in the neck of the 5 gallon carboy. That is important because it is any air that might cause oxidation. Also the beer should still be releasing CO2 at that point in time so any air in the secondary should get purged out. I have never had any issue with oxidation or off flavors at all. Just saying....

If you were interested in doing a secondary then you need a racking cane and a siphon starter of some sort. All equipment has to be sanitized properly before the transfer. Go do some research. It's not hard to do but the first time it might be a little intimidating. So you may want to skip it this time around or you may just choose to never do it and that is your decision to make.

 

[Immocles]

As I said, here is that advice not to do a secondary....

I don't agree with that advice. I actually recommend secondary but I may be in the minority on this. The reason I do recommend it is that I have made many great beers using secondary and have gotten rave reviews on my beer. A batch that I did this year was an Old Peculiar clone recipe and I got comments like "You should bottle and sell this".... We drained an entire 5 gallon keg of it in just 3 hours.

But I head to secondary on the same day as the primary crashes and make sure to leave only a small amount of air in the neck of the 5 gallon carboy. That is important because it is any air that might cause oxidation. Also the beer should still be releasing CO2 at that point in time so any air in the secondary should get purged out. I have never had any issue with oxidation or off flavors at all. Just saying....

If you were interested in doing a secondary then you need a racking cane and a siphon starter of some sort. All equipment has to be sanitized properly before the transfer. Go do some research. It's not hard to do but the first time it might be a little intimidating. So you may want to skip it this time around or you may just choose to never do it and that is your decision to make.

Myself and a friend started brewing at the same time. I was gifted the basic starter set while he bought a step up that included a secondary. I always let mine ride out 2-3 weeks, and he racked after 2 weeks. Brewing the same kits on occasion, his generally turned out a little darker, a little different on the flavor, but he admittedly played a bit fast and loose with process and sanitation. I'm not necessarily saying its a guarantee to ruin a beer, but it is an extra step that can indeed cause issues, especially with just starting out. I think once a good process is found, one should stick with it. Sounds like you found a good process.

 

[Immocles]

Wednesday morning and the activity has died down in the carboy. Should I be concerned? It was nice and active for a couple of days but has relented. There is still foam on top. Is that a normal schedule for fermentation?

Actual active fermentation can be pretty quick. It's common for it to be in the 2-4 day range. The yeast still does a lot of cleaning up afterwards, though. It is tough to be patient with the first few brews, but let the yeast do its thing.

Your primary has just crashed after a few days of full on fermentation. This is normal.

Now for me, I immediately go to a secondary, which is a smaller carboy (5 gallon) and then fill that to within a few inches of the top, up into the neck. That would be called secondary fermentation. Many here will tell you not to do that for various reasons but I am a firm believer in it because it allows the beer to settle out and I get a lot less sediment. So you will have to figure out in the future whether or not you want to do that. Do some research and see what you think. Some will tell you that it could lead to oxidation but I have never had any issue with that in over 30 years time. So that decision will have to be left up to you. As I said, do your research and then figure out if it is right for you. You might try it on a future batch or you might just decide to never do it. Your decision. I always go to secondary on the same day that I see the head crash on primary....

Either way things are going just fine for you. Don't worry. The yeast just ran out of food. It is telling you that.

I missed this post before I made my own above. That sounds like a really clever time to do the racking to secondary, actually. Do you often still get a bit of a yeast cake on the bottom of the second carboy?

 

[coonmanx]

I missed this post before I made my own above. That sounds like a really clever time to do the racking to secondary, actually. Do you often still get a bit of a yeast cake on the bottom of the second carboy?

Very little actually.

 

[coonmanx]

Myself and a friend started brewing at the same time. I was gifted the basic starter set while he bought a step up that included a secondary. I always let mine ride out 2-3 weeks, and he racked after 2 weeks. Brewing the same kits on occasion, his generally turned out a little darker, a little different on the flavor, but he admittedly played a bit fast and loose with process and sanitation. I'm not necessarily saying its a guarantee to ruin a beer, but it is an extra step that can indeed cause issues, especially with just starting out. I think once a good process is found, one should stick with it. Sounds like you found a good process.

And yet he waited two weeks to rack to secondary and I usually do that in three days or so. And crap. I failed to notice that this was also one of your posts. Now it's my mistake. LOL.

The reason for doing it after primary has crashed is that the secondary is a perfect place for settling and clearing and without all of that yeast cake it does it a whole lot better. And if CO2 is still coming off then it will purge any oxygen out of the headspace in secondary. But I already said that. Wish I could have just deleted the post....

 

[kh54s10]

I will advise NOT doing a secondary. I have only done 3 in my 9 years of brewing, twice were to make additions. I get very little sediment and get the same comments about selling my beers.

For me it is a step I don't need to do. I feel that the risks of oxidation and infection far outweigh the very minor amount of clearing you will get. Though with proper sanitation and doing closed transfers that should not be an issue. If you do a secondary I also suggest that you do not just siphon to a smaller carboy. Invest in co2 and a closed transfer system. I am also not worried if my beers aren't crystal clear, though most are. Just give the beer enough time. For me that is usually at 2 weeks, though most of the time it gets a little longer.

Of course if things work, just continue. In brewing there are so many ways to accomplish creating a great beer.

 

[Immocles]

And yet he waited two weeks to rack to secondary and I usually do that in three days or so. And crap. I failed to notice that this was also one of your posts. Now it's my mistake. LOL.

The reason for doing it after primary has crashed is that the secondary is a perfect place for settling and clearing and without all of that yeast cake it does it a whole lot better. And if CO2 is still coming off then it will purge any oxygen out of the headspace in secondary. But I already said that. Wish I could have just deleted the post....

Thats why I remarked about it haha. I'd only ever seen or watched firsthand brewers rack to secondary long after that time has already passed.

 

[coonmanx]

I will advise NOT doing a secondary. I have only done 3 in my 9 years of brewing, twice were to make additions. I get very little sediment and get the same comments about selling my beers.

For me it is a step I don't need to do. I feel that the risks of oxidation and infection far outweigh the very minor amount of clearing you will get. Though with proper sanitation and doing closed transfers that should not be an issue. If you do a secondary I also suggest that you do not just siphon to a smaller carboy. Invest in co2 and a closed transfer system. I am also not worried if my beers aren't crystal clear, though most are. Just give the beer enough time. For me that is usually at 2 weeks, though most of the time it gets a little longer.

Of course if things work, just continue. In brewing there are so many ways to accomplish creating a great beer.

So shouldn't we really ask just how big that risk actually is if it never happens. Seems to me that it is then just a risk running around in someone's head and is no different than the risk of getting hit by a car just because you went outside. To me, it is an almost non-existent risk if you use proper sanitation and do things the correct way. Just like the risk of being hit by a car is pretty much zero if you look twice before crossing the street. So why even worrry about something that most likely will never ever happen?

I have never seen the need for closed transfer at all. When I am racking there is still gas coming off of the beer so any oxygen in the headspace should be depleted quickly. So for me, not an issue once again.

 

[coonmanx]

Secondary also is a great way to store 5 gallons of beer for an extended period of time. I have left beers in secondary for a few months that way and then primed them in a keg and had some of the best beer that I have ever made.

That was actually what I will call a red ale that sat in my closet for about 3 months last year. Temps were even getting up to about 80 degrees. I siphoned into a keg primed with 5/8 cup of malt extract and threw it in my friend's basement for two weeks where it was much cooler. Tapped off the first pour without putting any gas on it and it was fantastic. Seven people at a poker party nearly drained the entire keg in the span of a few hours time.

 

[coonmanx]

Of course my point to OP was that he should do the research for himself and then make a decision that is right for him.

 

[kh54s10]

So shouldn't we really ask just how big that risk actually is if it never happens. Seems to me that it is then just a risk running around in someone's head and is no different than the risk of getting hit by a car just because you went outside. To me, it is an almost non-existent risk if you use proper sanitation and do things the correct way. Just like the risk of being hit by a car is pretty much zero if you look twice before crossing the street. So why even worrry about something that most likely will never ever happen?

I have never seen the need for closed transfer at all. When I am racking there is still gas coming off of the beer so any oxygen in the headspace should be depleted quickly. So for me, not an issue once again.

Yes you can get a good beer when doing a secondary and not get an infection or oxidize the beer detrimentally. If you listen to the LODO people your beers are oxidized. I believe they are. However, I don't believe it is as critical as they do.

I would also say the risk is not "non-existent". If so there wouldn't be so many "Is my beer ruined?", "is my beer infected?" and "My beer tastes like crap" threads.
A large percentage of these are traced to infection or oxidation even though there is no glaring mistakes made. And of those a large percentage are ones that say - "the directions said 2 weeks primary and 2 weeks secondary...."

You are also not doing the typical secondary which would be transferred AFTER fermentation has finished.

Still I feel it is a totally unnecessary step. All you are accomplishing is a slightly more clear beer. 2 weeks or until mostly clear in primary, then package. IMO, there is usually no need for any other steps.

 

[Schwimbody]

This is what I love about this forum. All of this knowledge accumulated over years and years of brewing. I do not plan to move that beer at all for another 2 and a 1/2 weeks. Figure 3 weeks for a Kolsch should be good right? I can maintain temps under 70f no problem under my stairway. Then what, 2 weeks bottle fermenting? When do I refrigerate...during the whole 2 weeks they are in their new bottle homes?

 

[Immocles]

After bottling, let the bottles sit somewhere ~70F to carbonate for at least 2 weeks. I often get antsy after 10 days or so and toss a single bottle in the fridge to test out a few days later. If its where I want it to be, I toss the rest in the fridge. If not, I toss another single bottle in the fridge and test again after a few days. Usually by that point I'll put the rest of the batch in the fridge.

Don't get discouraged if it isn't as clear as you'd like. I battle chill haze with regularity. Bottles will be clear going into the fridge, but the cold temp can kick up some haziness. It will drop back down after a couple weeks in the fridge in my experience. Most kolsch yeasts improved quite a bit from some cold conditioning anyway, so don't drink em all when they immediately get cold haha.

Patience. It gets easier when the pipeline gets flowing.

 

[Schwimbody]

So what is the best way to chill your beer during fermentation if I want to continue to do colder temp fermentation beers? I have heard and read that there are several wine fridges that work out really well for this. I have been searching all over Houston and I cannot find any that are used. Is there a particular brand that works very well for this? I guess I have to get a temperature controller as well. And seem to remember there was a wine fridge brand that started with V but I couldn't remember which one it was.

 

[Immocles]

Any type of fridge should work, if the fermenter fits. Otherwise folks modify them a bit to extend the capacity. I'm pretty low tech and brew with the seasons. My "chamber" is a large rubbermaid container. I stick ice bottles around it to cool the container, and wrap a seedling heater mat around the carboy connected to an inkbird controller.

For a better solution, check out post #6 from @mongoose33 (Sorry for calling you out, but that camo fridge is too easy to identify, and I've seen it in several posts haha)

 

[kh54s10]

An easy fermentation chamber is a chest freezer. A 5 cubic foot will hold one fermenter a 7 should hold 2. Use an Inkbird ITC-308 for about $35 for controlling the temperature.

Count on 3 weeks at 70 degrees for bottle conditioning. I try one bottle at 2 weeks. Some are fully carbonated some are not. All my beers have tasted better at 3 weeks or longer. I usually only chill 6 or 12 bottles at a time. Usually just overnight. The do get a little more clear if they stay in the fridge for a while. But not enough to make me wait on them.

 

[Bobby_M]

Secondary also is a great way to store 5 gallons of beer for an extended period of time. I have left beers in secondary for a few months that way and then primed them in a keg and had some of the best beer that I have ever made.

That was actually what I will call a red ale that sat in my closet for about 3 months last year. Temps were even getting up to about 80 degrees. I siphoned into a keg primed with 5/8 cup of malt extract and threw it in my friend's basement for two weeks where it was much cooler. Tapped off the first pour without putting any gas on it and it was fantastic. Seven people at a poker party nearly drained the entire keg in the span of a few hours time.

Use of a secondary, warm extended aging, open transfers to keg. I suspect everyone enjoying the beer has a very high threshold for oxidation flavors. That is to say, I'm 100% certain a beer treated like that is oxidized. Whether it's a problem is a matter of perception.

 

[coonmanx]

Use of a secondary, warm extended aging, open transfers to keg. I suspect everyone enjoying the beer has a very high threshold for oxidation flavors. That is to say, I'm 100% certain a beer treated like that is oxidized. Whether it's a problem is a matter of perception.

LOL. And you are 100% wrong. In fact I'm certain that you have a very high threshold for putting nonsense on the internet....

I prime my kegs so any oxygen that would be left in there would get used up by the active yeast. Secondary is also done right after the head crashes on primary so any air that would be left in the small amount of headspace in the carboy would get pushed out by the CO2 that is still coming off of the beer at that point in time. I also make sure not to splash the beer around when siphoning at any point while transferring it.

 

[coonmanx]

Funny how I have been brewing for 30 years now and have never had any oxidation or infected beer but some might try to say that I am simply "lucky". I disagree. Good brewing techniques get you good beer. People who claim that my beer must be oxidized have zero proof of that yet they will still make that claim because the internet is an echo chamber of nonsense at times. The problem that I see here is people making claims with absolutely nothing to back up what they say. That is not how things are done in the real world. You had better provide some proof if you make a claim.

I will put my beers up against those of anyone else at any time.

Frankly, I think some brewers like to create problems where none exist just so that they can then "solve them" at a later date.

 

[coonmanx]

But once again let me remind everyone that I said that the OP should do his own research and make an informed decision for himself. Some of you seem to have completely missed that point. Instead it's immediately off to the echo chamber with zero proof of anything....

 

[Schwimbody]

I appreciate all the input. I am sticking with my original plan and will be waiting for 3 weeks even though the head has crashed and it seems the fermentation has all but stopped. There is a very thin layer of fermentation left in the top of the carboy and it is only Thursday. Everybody has told me not to be concerned so I am not. I will just be waiting this out and will try to keep everything around 65 to 68ﾟ for 2 more weeks

 

[coonmanx]

I appreciate all the input. I am sticking with my original plan and will be waiting for 3 weeks even though the head has crashed and it seems the fermentation has all but stopped. There is a very thin layer of fermentation left in the top of the carboy and it is only Thursday. Everybody has told me not to be concerned so I am not. I will just be waiting this out and will try to keep everything around 65 to 68ﾟ for 2 more weeks

Sounds good.

 

[kh54s10]

LOL. And you are 100% wrong. In fact I'm certain that you have a very high threshold for putting nonsense on the internet....

I prime my kegs so any oxygen that would be left in there would get used up by the active yeast. Secondary is also done right after the head crashes on primary so any air that would be left in the small amount of headspace in the carboy would get pushed out by the CO2 that is still coming off of the beer at that point in time. I also make sure not to splash the beer around when siphoning at any point while transferring it.

Well you are in the extreme minority of the opinion that oxidation is not a problem. In your case you are doing things that most do not do to alleviate the extent. (secondary while still fermenting). If you then do an open transfer you ARE oxidizing your beer. If you are careful the degree will be minimal. Some are very sensitive to the taste. I am not.

But just because you have not experienced the problem in your 30 years does not mean it doesn't exist.