Weldless Triclover Element?

[kzimmer0817]

It has the surface area to solder it. A normal ferrule you would have to dimple the pot to solder it on.

Great. So I could probably learn to solder this without much experience? Bobby, is it about as easy to solder as your spuds appear to be?

 

[emjay]

So, just to make sure I understand how this works...

The TC enclosure along with the element will be just as easily removable as any other TC fitting, correct? Because the main reason I intend to go with these is that I want to be able to swap the elements+enclosures out for simple TC end caps, so that I can still use my "electric" Boilermakers on gas burners if I have to (eg a homebrew club event).

In other words, being able to go electric without having to entirely commit to it.

 

[Carlscan26]

So, just to make sure I understand how this works...

The TC enclosure along with the element will be just as easily removable as any other TC fitting, correct? Because the main reason I intend to go with these is that I want to be able to swap the elements+enclosures out for simple TC end caps, so that I can still use my "electric" Boilermakers on gas burners if I have to (eg a homebrew club event).

In other words, being able to go electric without having to entirely commit to it.

I was wondering the same thing. Would the heat from a burner be too much for the gasket?

Also second the question about the weldless version and why screws vs. a threaded solution? I'm guessing its because of the diameter of the hole?

 

[tjash]

Should be okay as long as you have a flame shield to block direct flame on the fitting. I use a welded on ferrule and have gas fired it once or twice with a blank tc flange in place with no damage to the gasket.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sorry I haven't kept up but I'll answer all the questions in one post here..

What exactly differentiates the solder-on version from a typical weld-on ferrule?

A regular ferrule either needs to be TIG welded on or you CAN use silver solder if you pull a flare or "dimple" the hole so that you have increase surface area for the solder contact. This solder-flange version provides even more surface area for solder than the flare/dimple technique and you don't need to source parts for the dimpling tool so it's BETTER(tm)

Great. So I could probably learn to solder this without much experience? Bobby, is it about as easy to solder as your spuds appear to be?

I think just about anyone can do it. The biggest challenge is finding a cheap enough 1" conduit punch for the hole itself. I happened to have scored a nice Greenlee 4-size set on Ebay for $65, but I think they retail for over $100. The process for soldering the TC flange will very similar to the spuds, but use less solder due to the close contact between the pot and curved flange.

The TC enclosure along with the element will be just as easily removable as any other TC fitting, correct? Because the main reason I intend to go with these is that I want to be able to swap the elements+enclosures out for simple TC end caps, so that I can still use my "electric" Boilermakers on gas burners if I have to (eg a homebrew club event). In other words, being able to go electric without having to entirely commit to it.

Correct. You'll solder the TC flange to the kettle first. Now, you can use the TC clamp and gasket to attach the element adapter (with element installed into it) to install the assembly into the TC flange. It's now an electric kettle. If you don't want to use the element for one brew, you remove the assembly and clamp a blank 1.5" TC cover on to seal the hole. The ONLY thing you need to be concerned with is dry firing. Once you have liquid in the pot, at least covering the TC flange area, there's no way it's going to heat over the silicone gasket's tolerance. They're good for 500F.

Also second the question about the weldless version and why screws vs. a threaded solution? I'm guessing its because of the diameter of the hole?

I think an OD threaded solution could work. I just haven't gotten there yet. I'm trying not to overload my manufacturer with prototype requests because I know it disrupts production runs on other parts (that I really can't wait for).

 

[huntb]

I think an OD threaded solution could work. I just haven't gotten there yet. I'm trying not to overload my manufacturer with prototype requests because I know it disrupts production runs on other parts (that I really can't wait for).

If/when an OD threaded one goes into production I can guarantee you one customer good for buying a few of them! Keep up the good work man

 

[emjay]

Sorry I haven't kept up but I'll answer all the questions in one post here..

A regular ferrule either needs to be TIG welded on or you CAN use silver solder if you pull a flare or "dimple" the hole so that you have increase surface area for the solder contact. This solder-flange version provides even more surface area for solder than the flare/dimple technique and you don't need to source parts for the dimpling tool so it's BETTER(tm)

I think just about anyone can do it. The biggest challenge is finding a cheap enough 1" conduit punch for the hole itself. I happened to have scored a nice Greenlee 4-size set on Ebay for $65, but I think they retail for over $100. The process for soldering the TC flange will very similar to the spuds, but use less solder due to the close contact between the pot and curved flange.

Correct. You'll solder the TC flange to the kettle first. Now, you can use the TC clamp and gasket to attach the element adapter (with element installed into it) to install the assembly into the TC flange. It's now an electric kettle. If you don't want to use the element for one brew, you remove the assembly and clamp a blank 1.5" TC cover on to seal the hole. The ONLY thing you need to be concerned with is dry firing. Once you have liquid in the pot, at least covering the TC flange area, there's no way it's going to heat over the silicone gasket's tolerance. They're good for 500F.

I think an OD threaded solution could work. I just haven't gotten there yet. I'm trying not to overload my manufacturer with prototype requests because I know it disrupts production runs on other parts (that I really can't wait for).

Alrighty then. Since it'll allow me to use a gas burner as well, I'm 100% certain I'll be buying this (based on your price estimates, of course).

Would strongly prefer an OD threaded version, but I guess the solder-on version will have to do. I'm assuming it's the same type of solder and torch used for soldering copper plumbing? In any case, would it be possible to put up a video of yourself demonstrating good technique, by the time you've got them in stock?

 

[biertourist]

Bobby,

The world of electric brewing needs this! HUGE unfulfilled need here.
I wish this thing existed a year ago.

I'm with you and slightly nervous about the weld/solder-free version with the 4 surrounding holes version. I'm also with Emjay that I'd prefer an OD threaded weldless version. You could provide a paper template to put over the 1.4" hole to ensure that the other 4 holes are perfectly aligned...

I might honestly sell my current HLT and build a new identical one with one of these solder-in one. After hiring a stainless welder mine looks terrible (warped from too much heat).

I've also got a great alternative to C-clamps while installing the soldered version.
We used these while welding my HLT and Boil kettle; they're called "Colecos" and they're great for this kind of job:

Adam

 

[emjay]

Bobby, do you think you could offer an all-inclusive kit with a Camco 4500W and/or 5500W ULWD (by far the most popular elements) pre-installed so that thw buyer only has to make a hole, solder the ferrule in, and then clamp the TC closed for a sealed fit? I would definitely pay extra not to have to mess around with anything else.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've looked for wholesale sources on elements and have come up empty. In many cases, my price would be the same or even a dollar more than Amazon. I'll keep looking.

 

[orangehero]

Have your tried APCOM the manufacturer of most of these elements?

 

[Carlscan26]

I've looked for wholesale sources on elements and have come up empty. In many cases, my price would be the same or even a dollar more than Amazon. I'll keep looking.

I'd buy it at the same price or even $1 more just for the convenience of a complete kit.

 

[emjay]

Yeah, I'd actually be willing to pay a bit more than the added cost of the element.

 

[huntb]

I wouldn't have a problem paying extra either. Seems like a pretty great idea actually

 

[OMJ]

The solder-on version is in production right now, due in stock by the end of September. I didn't pull the trigger on the bolt on just yet. I need to prove to myself that the first install wasn't beginner's luck. It held water tight just fine even after a lot of deliberate hosteling of the element enclosure, etc. To be honest, the solder process is easier and way more forgiving. Do it poorly the first time and you can start over without ruining the kettle.

These still on tea k for the end of the month? Got some new kettles and I need to decide between these and dimpling.

 

[Bobby_M]

Yes, the solder-on version will be here by the end of the week.

 

[OMJ]

Yes, the solder-on version will be here by the end of the week.

awesome thanks Bobby

 

[Bobby_M]

Christmas came early! I got them in today but I need to put together the pictures, pricing, etc.. Couple days.

Question... yes or no on bringing in silver solder kits? You know, the flux and solder in one package.

Incidentally, we also got in a new smaller version of the electrical enclosure. Basically the same concept only more compact and it's also ready for bigger cables like 10/3 SJ cord. These are going to be available for 1.5" triclover connections as well as simple weldless element installs (using a locknut/gasket).

 

[Carlscan26]

Christmas came early! I got them in today but I need to put together the pictures, pricing, etc.. Couple days. Question... yes or no on bringing in silver solder kits? You know, the flux and solder in one package. Incidentally, we also got in a new smaller version of the electrical enclosure. Basically the same concept only more compact and it's also ready for bigger cables like 10/3 SJ cord. These are going to be available for 1.5" triclover connections as well as simple weldless element installs (using a locknut/gasket).

Yes on the solder kits

 

[ChocolateMaltyBalls]

Question... yes or no on bringing in silver solder kits? You know, the flux and solder in one package.

I say yes on the solder kit, especially since I'm unlikely to need a 1lb roll of solder to install two elements for my eHERMS build.

Also I hope you'll post a video of the process, your other videos have been a big help.

 

[Kiel]

yes on the kits

 

[Deric]

Incidentally, we also got in a new smaller version of the electrical enclosure. Basically the same concept only more compact and it's also ready for bigger cables like 10/3 SJ cord. These are going to be available for 1.5" triclover connections....

Great news! I was just about to email you about the possibility of using larger cables!

 

[jeffmeh]

I was also curious about accommodating 10/3 and posted a question on your web site. I'm definitely interested in a weldless version, although it will be a while managing college bills and cash flow before I can pull the trigger on my electric build.

 

[MX1]

Bobby,

do you have a diameter for the wire opening in the new smaller weldless versions?

Tim

 

[ameliabrewery]

Yes on solder kits

 

[rvklein]

You sir are an innovator!

 

[ookapow]

yes on the kits

 

[dyqik]

The solder-on version is in production right now, due in stock by the end of September. I didn't pull the trigger on the bolt on just yet. I need to prove to myself that the first install wasn't beginner's luck. It held water tight just fine even after a lot of deliberate hosteling of the element enclosure, etc. To be honest, the solder process is easier and way more forgiving. Do it poorly the first time and you can start over without ruining the kettle.

The bolt-on version is roughly what I've been wondering about for making an E-kettle for indoor brewing. But since I'm not wanting one of these just yet, here are some suggestions for a bolt-on 2.0 deluxe version, in the hope that they could be incorporated by time I want to buy some

On vacuum vessel like the ones I use a lot at work, this kind of fitting would usually have a ring on the inside of the vessel to spread the pressure from the bolts across the gasket area and to stiffen the wall. It'd also usually have a minimum of 6 bolts, but maybe that's less important here. This would greatly increase the strength of the bolt on fitting, and should make leak prevention easy. The internal ring is a fairly simple part, and could also act as the jig for drilling the holes in the kettle. You might even be able to make it by drilling an appropriate (but large) washer.

Secondly, and much more speculatively, the two parts of the bolt on version could be curved to match a medium size kettle. This would greatly improve the evenness of the pressure on the gasket, prevent distortion of the walls, and allow the fitting to fit to much smaller pots, while also improving the fit on bigger kettles. It would increase the machining cost quite a bit though, as that curve would have to be made separately from the other machining jobs.

 

[Bobby_M]

Bobby,

do you have a diameter for the wire opening in the new smaller weldless versions?

Tim

I believe they will fit up to .71" cable diameter, will verify when I get the grips tomorrow.

 

[Bobby_M]

The bolt-on version is roughly what I've been wondering about for making an E-kettle for indoor brewing. But since I'm not wanting one of these just yet, here are some suggestions for a bolt-on 2.0 deluxe version, in the hope that they could be incorporated by time I want to buy some

On vacuum vessel like the ones I use a lot at work, this kind of fitting would usually have a ring on the inside of the vessel to spread the pressure from the bolts across the gasket area and to stiffen the wall. It'd also usually have a minimum of 6 bolts, but maybe that's less important here. This would greatly increase the strength of the bolt on fitting, and should make leak prevention easy. The internal ring is a fairly simple part, and could also act as the jig for drilling the holes in the kettle. You might even be able to make it by drilling an appropriate (but large) washer.

Secondly, and much more speculatively, the two parts of the bolt on version could be curved to match a medium size kettle. This would greatly improve the evenness of the pressure on the gasket, prevent distortion of the walls, and allow the fitting to fit to much smaller pots, while also improving the fit on bigger kettles. It would increase the machining cost quite a bit though, as that curve would have to be made separately from the other machining jobs.

I agree with all your points and I'm less likely to move forward with the bolt on version just due to the cost involved. Ballpark estimate for what you describe would be around $35-40 retail. Even the less robust prototype I show in the pics would be around $25.

Anyone capable of making the larger, and then subsequent precision bolt holes should be more than capable of soldering a unit on. That's why I chose to go ahead with the solder flange.

Thank you for the feedback.