Weldless fitting leaking

[SomedumbJerk]

i just got a Keggle from conpewter (thanks!) and i'm installing a weldless ball valve from morebeer.com, and i can't get the thing to not leak. if i overtighten it, the oring squishes out to the side of the washer. i put a bunch of teflon tape over the threads.. i'm running out of ideas... should i flatten the side of the keg so it sits flush?

 

[Labrat]

Is the hole in the keg a lot larger than the 1/2 inch NPT? Does the brass nut that came with your bulkhead have a cut away section shown in this thread.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=63014

This cut away section forces the o-ring to compress instead of distorting. Some lock nuts are flat on both sides and the o-ring is squeezed out of position.

I have two keggles that do not leak and only have one o-ring on the outside section of the keggle. Have you tried this approach?

 

[aekdbbop]

flattening may help, but try going reaaalllyyy slow when tightening and keep that oring straight in..

 

[SomedumbJerk]

so i have the oring on the inside... no nut... am i retarded? oh and i love the sifl and olli picture.

 

[Grimsawyer]

so i have the oring on the inside... no nut... am i retarded? oh and i love the sifl and olli picture.

Isn't that Chester?

 

[Labrat]

Did you get it to quit leaking?

 

[SomedumbJerk]

just did this morning. put like ten layers of teflon tape on, which made it feel like it was cross threading, so i took it apart to check, which made me need to tape it again. it held water for 45mins. without a leak. i's going to go get some propane today and boil some water to see if it holds up. the problem i foresee is the kettle getting hot and the water thats leaking evaporating before i can notice. we'll see!

 

[bigben]

Isn't the O-Ring supposed to go on the outside where the nut is???

 

[BrewBeemer]

My friend had the same problems after using a hole saw to cut up his kegs.
I ended up machining washers 1/4" thick by 2" OD with an internal step to hold in the "O" ring with one inside and outside each keg. After machining the washers they went thru a press matching the kegs radius for a solid leakproof seal. A flat nut even with a machined "O" ring slot against a kegs radius is like sealing a boat leak from the inside.

To avoid any leaking problems I would not consider a weldless fitting on any brewing system, JMO's.

 

[Bobby_M]

The fatal flaw in weldless systems is having an Oring try sealing at the threaded portion of a pipe nipple. Think like wort....you'll find the way out.

 

[ClutchDude]

Try a different lock nut as well. The locknut I got with my weldless didn't have a lip for the oring to sit in. I managed to get it sealed but after many tries. I put a Therm/Sightglass fitting in next to it with a lock nut that had the seating. No leaks on the first try.

Bargin Fittings has them for sure.

You also need two O-rings. One for the inside and one outside. the washer on the inside compresses and the locknut on the outside compresses.


Other than that, I'm quite pleased with my weldless DIY jobs. You just have to get the right amount of tightness and then rotate as needed. . Also helps to have drilling/cutting oil and a step bit. I always keep the fitting nearby to test fit it.

 

[JVD_X]

i just got a Keggle from conpewter (thanks!) and i'm installing a weldless ball valve from morebeer.com, and i can't get the thing to not leak. if i overtighten it, the oring squishes out to the side of the washer. i put a bunch of teflon tape over the threads.. i'm running out of ideas... should i flatten the side of the keg so it sits flush?

Also - assuming it's not a huge drip (I consider a small drip to be one every 10-15 seconds or less) don't worry about it... what is the worst that is going to happen? You might lose 1/4 of a cup of wort or hot water during the entire 8 hours.

Mine drip - I don't worry about it. The best thing I did was not do anything other than hand tighten.

 

[BrewBeemer]

Using a short nipple vs a close a nipple, short nipple will have 3/8" to 1/2" of threadless center area. True sealing across threads is a leak waiting to happen.

 

[Bobby_M]

Brewbeemer is right. If you can set it up so that the inside Oring sits on the "flat" or unthreaded spot on the nipple, you'll have much better luck and you won't even need an Oring on the outside. The difficulty in setting this up is that you'll likely need a good 3-5 washers on the inside to make up the distance between the coupling and the nipple's unthreaded portion. You can also throw a locknut on the inside to negate this.

 

[mr x]

Ditch the o-ring and use industrial gasket.

 

[Veng]

I have the same battle here.
My last hope is this, and it might draw some fire, who knows.
What if I bought a Ching Chen pow Deng gasket cutter from harbor Freight
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3838
and made something like a hose gasket which shouldn't compress out
of the seal area? Next order is to find a not too toxic gasket material??
Anyone try this??
Rock on

 

[Beertk]

Blue RTV Silicon is the way tp stop the leaks. Trust me it works... it is fine up to 500 degrees. That is what I use. Also, I have heard of people using JB weld with success.

 

[mr x]

I have the same battle here.
My last hope is this, and it might draw some fire, who knows.
What if I bought a Ching Chen pow Deng gasket cutter from harbor Freight
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=3838
and made something like a hose gasket which shouldn't compress out
of the seal area? Next order is to find a not too toxic gasket material??
Anyone try this??
Rock on

Gore-tex gasket is all I use, and for good reason.

http://www.gore.com/en_xx/products/sealants/gaskets/gore-tex_gr_sheet_gasketing.html

That punch set might be too small, but you have the right idea.

 

[sigmund]

Gore-tex gasket is all I use, and for good reason.

http://www.gore.com/en_xx/products/sealants/gaskets/gore-tex_gr_sheet_gasketing.html

That punch set might be too small, but you have the right idea.

Where do you order this from?

 

[mr x]

I get it at work. I would imagine you could order it online, but I've never tried.

 

[conpewter]

Glad you got it worked out! The hole was drilled with a step bit to 7/8" per the spec on the Weld-B-Gone spigot you were buying.

I do find that everything seals much better if you do a few things.

#1 put the silicone o-ring on the outside (you don't need the one on the inside)

#2 screw the locknut onto the nipple fairly tight, put on the silicone O-ring and put it through the hole in the keggle, then add your washer and SS coupler on the inside.

#3 Tighten down the whole thing turning the coupling (so as not to hurt the O-ring)

#4 Put lots of pipe tape on the threads (as you've discovered) and screw on your ball-valve, after it's bottomed out, adjust the whole thing to have your handle vertical.

I like the weldless fittings but when I get my single tier all keg setup I may try to find a local welder, I've just balked at the cost.

 

[BrewBeemer]

If a odd sized ID or OD punch is needed that a hole punch set doesn't cover machine a sharp edge to a piece of metal tube on a lathe. I've found even without case hardening it can hold an edge if the material being punched is backed up against a block of lead.

 

[BrewBeemer]

If a odd sized ID or OD punched gasket is needed that a hole punch set doesn't cover machine a sharp edge to a piece of metal pipe or tube on the lathe. I've found even without case hardening the punch it will hold an edge if the material being punched is backed up against a block of lead.
How can I remove these double replies? Must have CRS.

 

[Veng]

wow, lots of great ideas.
I have some very nasty industrial stuff for a last resort.
Gor tex looks like a good plan. All NAPA had was rubberized
fiberboard stuff. Look like it's time to visit McMaster Carr site.
Also, I wondered about machining my own punch.
Lacking a lathe, maybe some patience and a sander, and heavy gloves!
Thanks guys!

 

[dale1038]

Glad you got it worked out! The hole was drilled with a step bit to 7/8" per the spec on the Weld-B-Gone spigot you were buying.

I do find that everything seals much better if you do a few things.

#1 put the silicone o-ring on the outside (you don't need the one on the inside)

#2 screw the locknut onto the nipple fairly tight, put on the silicone O-ring and put it through the hole in the keggle, then add your washer and SS coupler on the inside.

#3 Tighten down the whole thing turning the coupling (so as not to hurt the O-ring)

#4 Put lots of pipe tape on the threads (as you've discovered) and screw on your ball-valve, after it's bottomed out, adjust the whole thing to have your handle vertical.

I like the weldless fittings but when I get my single tier all keg setup I may try to find a local welder, I've just balked at the cost.

See this would never work for me! My coupler in step 2 would never get past half way! Please read my post below.

....This is completely ridiculous. Building a keggle. I bought the weldless fitting from weldlessfittings.com.

We were very careful. Our hole is perfect. Right at 13/16th's. Worked on it all afternoon. Leaks!

Needless to say I've been pissed. I said 10 times, "should have just had it welded."

The only thing I can think is the midpoint of the nipple is bigger than the threads. Our midpoint gets put on one side of the keg wall or the other. This makes adjusting it INSANE!

If you put the midpoint of the nipple to the inside.......the coupling won't screw all the way to the midpoint of the nipple, PERIOD!

Almost seems like it's machined incorrectly. Is this normal?

Could our hole be too small?

Should the nipple pass freely through the hole?

My partner seems to think that the HUGE o-rings are to blame. We didn't get to mess with it a ton because it was getting dark. We are very competent do-it-your-selfers. Suggestions? Thank you!

 

[AzironaZack]

Here's one possible solution: ditch the o-rings and use flat silicon stock instead. Go to your local Bed Bath and Beyond, or Sheets and Things, or whatever house-wares store you can find and pick up a silicon baking sheet. They come in all shapes and sizes, but an 8x8 inch cake pan will cost less than $10.

Use the baking sheet as flat stock for making gaskets. If you use a proper gasket cutter then you can make very beautiful gaskets. If you use an exacto knife you can get gaskets, they just won't look so pretty.

See this thread:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/homemade-mlt-103458/

What's also nice is that you KNOW this stuff is food-safe. It's made for food. You also know (it says on the package) that it's good up to 500 degrees F. Since it's not an o-ring, it won't slip out of position. Hell of an idea, I think. I wish I had thought of it.

 

[BargainFittings]

See this would never work for me! My coupler in step 2 would never get past half way! Please read my post below.

....This is completely ridiculous. Building a keggle. I bought the weldless fitting from weldlessfittings.com.

We were very careful. Our hole is perfect. Right at 13/16th's. Worked on it all afternoon. Leaks!

Needless to say I've been pissed. I said 10 times, "should have just had it welded."

The only thing I can think is the midpoint of the nipple is bigger than the threads. Our midpoint gets put on one side of the keg wall or the other. This makes adjusting it INSANE!

If you put the midpoint of the nipple to the inside.......the coupling won't screw all the way to the midpoint of the nipple, PERIOD!

Almost seems like it's machined incorrectly. Is this normal?

Could our hole be too small?

Should the nipple pass freely through the hole?

My partner seems to think that the HUGE o-rings are to blame. We didn't get to mess with it a ton because it was getting dark. We are very competent do-it-your-selfers. Suggestions? Thank you!

Weldless sets are made with NPT (pipe) thread fittings. The coupling will not thread all the way to the middle. They are not designed to do that. The thread is a tapered thread and will only go in so far.

The order of install on my sets would be (outside) Valve - optional washer |nipple through wall| oring - locknut - coupling. (inside)