Welding 101 = Fun Brutus Build

[diatonic]

I think BBQ paint would hold up to temps better than standard powder coating. Not sure about high-temp powder coating, but I've heard it is expensive. The BBQ paints take 1000-1200F I believe, my powder coating discolored a bit while I was testing a burner, and I'm working on some heat shields to protect it. My powder coat cured at 400F and got kind of a 'burny smell' when I blew past that.

EDIT - Also, I didn't have any heat problems until I actually set the kettle on the burner. Those Banjos crank out a lot of heat, and instead of going straight up when the kettle was on, lots of hot air exhausted out the corners and got the stand *really* hot.

 

[SouthernYankee]

The first test run everything went okay. I added those mods as stated in another post but haven't tested them out since the first time.

My cheap regulator broke right after the test. (I was re-adjusting the regulator and the screw stripped on it) So I ended up having to purchase another better quality 30 psi one. Which according to UPS website is "out for delivery" today.

Once I receive it, I will test run the stand again. But with several different test.
1. This time with a keggle on it filled with 10 gal of water.
a, want to test the paint...with the keggle
b, boil time..how long it will take to get the water to at least 180 degrees. Also with the keggle being about 4" from the burners.

2. The wooden heat shield.
a, Are the aluminum painted edges going to help any with the heat.
c, will the wood itself stand up to the heat with the keggle on the stand..while under fire.

3. The propane manifold.
a, just to see how I like the new gas valve positions.

I know that testing the stand many people might not take the time to do it. I for one would like to work out as many "bugs" as possible before I attempt to throw a batch at it.
Also, I need to test out the pump I have with the 180 degree water. Its rated at only 150...but I want to see what happends.

I will take some photos of the paint, water temp, boil time, etc... and post the results for everyone whom is interested.

 

[jlandin]

Also, I need to test out the pump I have with the 180 degree water. Its rated at only 150...but I want to see what happends.

Hopefully that's a magnetic drive pump (sealless). Exceeding temperature ratings for pumps with a seal can spell trouble.

I hope everything works out perfect! :rockin:

--
Josh

 

[SouthernYankee]

Hopefully that's a magnetic drive pump (sealless). Exceeding temperature ratings for pumps with a seal can spell trouble.

I hope everything works out perfect! :rockin:

--
Josh

Yes, its a magnetic driven pump. Its a little giant one. Just not the model everyone seems to use on this site.

Its a cheaper version...

 

[ghart999]

I am anxious to hear about the little giant as I might go that route instead of the 809.

 

[shawnguinn]

very cool thank you for the paint information!!! I think I am going to do what you did if it is OK with you? Thanks again and cant wait to see your updated pictures. If you like the new regulator can you let me know where and what kind, Thanks again, Shawn

 

[Fletch]

I am anxious to hear about the little giant as I might go that route instead of the 809.

I've been using the Little Giant 3-MD-MT-HC pumps for years - the one on my home system is over 8 years old, and I put one on the 1 barrel system I built for the club. It's funny, people who are used to the March pumps always think my LG isn't running. I can't stand the whine the March's put out. The LGs with the HC in the model name are rated for 200F, but I've been pumping 210+ wort with them for years, no problems at all.

 

[diatonic]

Yes, its a magnetic driven pump. Its a little giant one. Just not the model everyone seems to use on this site.

Its a cheaper version...

Which one is it? I picked up one of the 3-MD-HCs and love it. So much quieter.. and so much more flow than my March pump.

 

[ghart999]

Good to hear Fletch. Do you have a good link for place to buy them?

Edit: I didn't realize these were more than the 809. Should I expect to pay $150 for them? Are they tough to prime?

 

[diatonic]

Good to hear Fletch. Do you have a good link for place to buy them?

trader-drew on eBay has been selling 3-MD-HCs in the $120-$150 range for the past couple of months. He doesn't have any listed now, but that's where I would watch. They're easy to find in the $250 range on eBay.

 

[Mose]

Did you get the 2-MD that the guy on ebay is selling for the $60 range. I looked that up and the temp rating was like 150* if I remember correctly. I didn't pull the trigger and decided to wait.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Did you get the 2-MD that the guy on ebay is selling for the $60 range. I looked that up and the temp rating was like 150* if I remember correctly. I didn't pull the trigger and decided to wait.

Yes, its the 2-MD, took me awhile to find the thread. But here it is, post #29 has the photo I took of the one I bought. Post #37 has to do with the temp of the matterial used for the head.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/good-ebay-deal-little-giant-3-md-hc-pumps-158926/

 

[Mose]

Thanks for the link. I'll be waiting to hear how your's works out. I'm thinking of using an IC anyway so my temps won't be over 200*. Your stand is sucking me into welding, not where I intended to go, so why stop there. If it works I'm onboard in a heartbeat. By the way your rig is looks great.

 

[ghart999]

trader-drew on eBay has been selling 3-MD-HCs in the $120-$150 range for the past couple of months. He doesn't have any listed now, but that's where I would watch. They're easy to find in the $250 range on eBay.

Geez I read some of the threads how these pumps used to be like $80 just 3-4 months ago and now almost doubled in price. I am sold on them. I just need to find one in the $120-$150 price range.
What's the difference between the 3-MD-MT-HC and the 3-MD-HC? Does it matter which one I get?

 

[SouthernYankee]

Geez I read some of the threads how these pumps used to be like $80 just 3-4 months ago and now almost doubled in price. I am sold on them. I just need to find one in the $120-$150 price range.
What's the difference between the 3-MD-MT-HC and the 3-MD-HC? Does it matter which one I get?

I think the MT-HC means the head is for high heat and the HC part means Highly crossosive.

MD just means Magnetically driven.

$151 at this place. However it has a 1" thread, but you can always by a reducer fitting.

http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/...ive-Pump-6-power-cord-(578603)/57399/Cat/1006


Not a bad price!

 

[Fletch]

trader-drew on eBay has been selling 3-MD-HCs in the $120-$150 range for the past couple of months. He doesn't have any listed now, but that's where I would watch. They're easy to find in the $250 range on eBay.

Grainger has them for about $180, IIRC. And a quick google turned up this http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/Little-Giant-3-MD-MT-HC-1-25-HP-500-GPH-@-1-Magnetic-Drive-Pump-6-power-cord-(578603)/57399/Cat/1006 place, $151 and change.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Well test #2 results are in.
The test provide to be a much better and precise test of the stand, the paint, wooden heat shield etc.. from the first test run I did.

After 53 minutes of the keggle under fire. Here are my findings and process.

10.5 gal of water in the HLT.
Start temp of water: 56.3....Got the water to 180 degrees in 53 min.

The PAINT: Well the barbeque paint still held strong. Awesome stuff! The epoxy paint...not so well. (photos provided)

Wooden heat shield: Going to have to cut 5.5" off one end to allow the heat from the keggles to vent from the sides. The shield was too long, Other then being to long..held up really well and only got a little warm. Not enough to do any damage to anything.

The plastic end caps...enough said! (what was I thinking)

Propane manifold in its current position. Im happy that I moved it from its original position to its current. Got a little hot. But not bad. Also happy that I applied the 1200 degree paint to it. Don't know if this helps..but peace of mine.

As for the paint...back to the paint shop it goes. Going to strip down the upper part of the stand. Right to where the water filter housing sits..the lower part of the stand is ok for the epoxy paint. Then repaint it with the barbeque paint.

Start of the paint peeling from the heat.

After the 53 min.

The steam!

 

[willynilly]

Well test #2 results are in.
The test provide to be a much better and precise test of the stand, the paint, wooden heat shield etc.. from the first test run I did.

After 53 minutes of the keggle under fire. Here are my findings and process.

10.5 gal of water in the HLT.
Start temp of water: 56.3....Got the water to 180 degrees in 53 min.

The PAINT: Well the barbeque paint still held strong. Awesome stuff! The epoxy paint...not so well. (photos provided)

Wooden heat shield: Going to have to cut 5.5" off one end to allow the heat from the keggles to vent from the sides. The shield was too long, Other then being to long..held up really well and only got a little warm. Not enough to do any damage to anything.

The plastic end caps...enough said! (what was I thinking)

Propane manifold in its current position. Im happy that I moved it from its original position to its current. Got a little hot. But not bad. Also happy that I applied the 1200 degree paint to it. Don't know if this helps..but peace of mine.

As for the paint...back to the paint shop it goes. Going to strip down the upper part of the stand. Right to where the water filter housing sits..the lower part of the stand is ok for the epoxy paint. Then repaint it with the barbeque paint.

12,300 BTU/hr?? Was the burner wide open? What is the burner rated at?

I would have expected the paint to last longer, would powdercoat work better??

 

[Fletch]

[QUOTE-GHART999]What's the difference between the 3-MD-MT-HC and the 3-MD-HC? Does it matter which one I get?[/QUOTE]

I think the MT-HC means the head is for high heat and the HC part means Highly crossosive. MD just means Magnetically driven. $151 at this place. However it has a 1" thread, but you can always by a reducer fitting.
http://www.plumbersurplus.com/Prod/...ive-Pump-6-power-cord-(578603)/57399/Cat/1006
Not a bad price!

The 3-MD-MT-HC has 1/2" MPT inlet and outlet, in a V configuration, as in the photo on the linked page, and it's 1/25 HP. The 3-MD-HC is 1/12 HP, with a 3/4" FPT inlet at 90 degrees to the volute (in line with the motor axis) and a 1/2" MPT outlet. The LG pump with a 1" inlet and 1/2" outlet is either a 4 or 5 Series, which are similar to the 3-MD-HC, but with bigger motors, and are overkill for most hombrew rigs. They have flow rates that could setiously stick your mash!

 

[willynilly]

I have the 3-MD-HC and it pumps SERIOUSLY fast. In fact, you can see some SLIGHT "balooning" of the silicone hoses between the pump and valve if you shut off the flow. It is a serious pump.

 

[SouthernYankee]

12,300 BTU/hr?? Was the burner wide open? What is the burner rated at?

I would have expected the paint to last longer, would powdercoat work better??

After reading several different threads. It seems that the water should have gotten to 180 sooner then it did.

As for the burner btu rating. I really cant find a solid answer out there. Ive read that some say they are rated at 100,000 btu and other places have them rated at 210,000
The flame was not wide open during the testing. I made the mistake of not opening the brass control valve all the way on the 30 psi regulator I have for it.
I tried it again (without the keggle) with the valve WIDE open and the flame is insane. The flame really wants to extinguish itself out because of the pressure. All I have to do is adjust the face plate on the burner to get that intense blue flame.

As for the paint. I can understand why it didn't last long at all. Very intense heat coming from under the keggle. Not the flame but in fact the heat!

Ive never used powdercoating so I cant comment on it. But once again, I have read that other brewers using the powdercoating are happy with it and others say it starts to burn off after several uses.

 

[shawnguinn]

I am going with the high temp paint, I found some 2000 degree header paint at my local auto parts store. Did you cure your high temp paint at all? I figure it is alot cheeper to repaint my rig verses re powdercoat it. I thank you for all your post I am learning a ton

 

[shawnguinn]

What kind of regulator did you go to and how did it hold up to your test??

 

[SouthernYankee]

I am going with the high temp paint, I found some 2000 degree header paint at my local auto parts store. Did you cure your high temp paint at all? I figure it is alot cheeper to repaint my rig verses re powdercoat it. I thank you for all your post I am learning a ton

Thats a good idea about hitting the auto parts store. Does the 2000 degree paint come in a variety of colors?

The only curring I did was let the stand sit a couple of days once painted. The once I tested the stand out with the keggles. The paint held out really well.

I am also learning a ton on this as well. If I ever build another stand I will know what to do right from the start. Is a learning curve.

Here is te link from the place I purchased the 30 psi regulator. Arrived within 3 days.
http://www.shop.5-0bbq.com/36-High-Pressure-Hose-and-30-PSI-Regulator-5HPR-30.htm?categoryId=-1

 

[shawnguinn]

Thats a good idea about hitting the auto parts store. Does the 2000 degree paint come in a variety of colors?

The only curring I did was let the stand sit a couple of days once painted. The once I tested the stand out with the keggles. The paint held out really well.

I am also learning a ton on this as well. If I ever build another stand I will know what to do right from the start. Is a learning curve.

Here is te link from the place I purchased the 30 psi regulator. Arrived within 3 days.
http://www.shop.5-0bbq.com/36-High-Pressure-Hose-and-30-PSI-Regulator-5HPR-30.htm?categoryId=-1

Yes, but they are all in a flat colors.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Yes, but they are all in a flat colors.

Okay thanks.
Doesnt matter about the flat paint since the barbeque paint is flat as well.

 

[shawnguinn]

This is a picture of the cans

 

[Nerdie]

why not just go stainless steel? I'm about to build a stand too

 

[diatonic]

why not just go stainless steel? I'm about to build a stand too

Besides it being over 3x more expensive and impossible for most DIYers to weld?

 

[Nerdie]

OH... i thought a lot of people said after paint and everything... it's almost about the same price.... u need MIG or TIG welding for stainless right? How are you guys welding? You guys have your own machine? It's different than for steel? I never welding anything myself... not sure what way to go... but with all the problems and extra work with paint.. I thought.. maybe I should just go stainless.... Please tell me more about welding... the differences =) I'm a NOOB with 3 semi-converted kegs....