Welch's Grape Juice Wine

[LoneTreeFarms]

My first attempt at this is ready to bottle; I think I must have made a mistake somewhere, because it tastes kind of awful I'll bottle it anyway, see if it gets better with age.

if it's too dry and tart tasting, you may want to stabilize it and back sweeten it to your liking before you bottle it.

 

[z-bob]

As long as you didn't stabilize it, it should be primed in time for New Years.

It wasn't bubbly at all, but it tasted good so I'm not really disappointed. I think the yeast (71B) wasn't up to the task. EC-1118 or Premier Cuvee probably could have carbed it, but it also might have tasted like crap.

ETA: now that it missed New Year's Eve, the plastic tester bottles are getting hard.

 

[fathertorque]

I just mixed up a gallon, but have a question. Is waiting 12 hours for pitching necessary or could I cut that time in half? Going to be using ec1118 as it's what I've got on hand and like dryer wines.

Edit: Nvm, found this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=293210 and answered my own question.

Pitching about a gram of ec118 now.

 

[fathertorque]

For my primary stage I am going open-air. Homer bucket with a sanitized paint strainer bag secured around bucket opening and thin lowel laid across the strainer. I ferment in a secluded room in my house and leave the air vents closed so there's essentially no air movement(or curious pets) so the co2 should blanket nicely on top of the brew. I'm going to whisk it daily to introduce o2 and take gravity reading and once it's reached 1.03 I will rack to a secondary with an air-lock.

I'm experimenting with an open mind and cheap ingredients.

 

[fathertorque]

And three days later the gravity hit 1.03 so into glass it goes for a good while.

View attachment 1454630978375.jpg

 

[Jim_Holmes]

i just started a half gallon of this tonight

 

[Hankhill11]

the first batch of this i made was good, really grapey but good enough for me to drink. so i started a 2nd batch today. well... i was all kinds of out of sorts this morning, and accidentally put some strawberry lemonade meant for hard lemonade into primary before i realized what i was doing. sooo this has 1 qt of strawberry lemonade in it i guess we'll see how it turns out. i suspect it'll be tart.

 

[SeraW]

Started one by original recipe (minus acid). Went to whisk in some extra O2 after 24hrs and that nearly got it to foam over my fermenter. Must be doing fine. Can't wait to see this to the end, I love concord.

 

[TenForward]

I'm new to brewing and this forum. I just found this thread. Unfortunately, I already had started my first fermentation...which involves Welch's grape juice...before seeing all the useful information in this thread. I am just making 1 gal of this wine/experiment. I have a FastFerment 7.9 Gallon Conical Fermentor with all the extras...even the sampling port, but I want to get a little experience before I use it to make a full 5-6 gal batch of something.

Anyway, in regard to the Welch's "experiment", I used two 64 fl oz containers of premade juice with 2 lbs of cane sugar. Besides sanitizing everything with Star San, I did not use any yeast nutrient, Pectic Enzyme, Acid Blend, etc. I just want to see what the yeast can do. The OG was 1.132

I pitched Red Star Premier Cuvee Wine Yeast on 04-07-2016. I only took a few hours to show CO2 production. Today, three days later, the airlock is bubbling about 2 or 3 bubbles per second.

It's I good thing it has an alcohol tolerance of 18% since it will be close to that with all the sugar I put into the mix. I don't know if the yeast can really do 18% but it's going to get a good workout for sure! I also like the wide temperature range of this yeast. If...and that's a BIG if...it's good tasting in the end, I will use Potassium Sorbate/ Potassium Metabisulfite before bottling.

I enjoy the learning process!!

 

[user 211287]

Has anyone tried the Welchs unfiltered concord grape juice. I love this stuff and its on sale occasionally at Costco for way less than the supermarkets.
http://www.welchs.com/products/farmers-pick-100-juices/farmers-pick-100-juice-concord-grape

 

[Wooden]

Been looking at making this one for some time now. The ingredients are taking up space in my freezer and I have an empty carboy beckoning for it.

Couple questions:

1) What kind of yeast? I have a bunch of varieties in my fridge I need to use up soon!

2) what about oaking? I was thinking about tossing some oak in there.

3) could one use more juice concentrate instead of sugar? (Like especially if you don't use the acid blend?.... I suspect there's a reason for this, but haven't found it)

4) regarding some people finding it to be "too tart" with the acid blend is there a certain range to shoot for if, say, you used a ph strip to measure?

I would probably make a 3 gal batch of this.

 

[akira7799]

Been looking at making this one for some time now. The ingredients are taking up space in my freezer and I have an empty carboy beckoning for it.

Couple questions:

1) What kind of yeast? I have a bunch of varieties in my fridge I need to use up soon!

I used 71B-1122 for mine. It metabolized a bit of the malic acid and helped with the acid bite.

2) what about oaking? I was thinking about tossing some oak in there.

I used 2oz. of medium toast French oak chips in primary and 2oz. of French oak cubes in secondary with ML bacteria.

3) could one use more juice concentrate instead of sugar? (Like especially if you don't use the acid blend?.... I suspect there's a reason for this, but haven't found it)

I used more concentrate, but it bumped the acid a bit. You should most definitely use a acid metabolizing yeast and ML bacteria to decrease the malic acid content. It really helped with the tartness and increased mouthfeel.

4) regarding some people finding it to be "too tart" with the acid blend is there a certain range to shoot for if, say, you used a ph strip to measure?

I was able to adjust pH from 3.03 to 3.11. I was also able to adjust TA from 10.5 to 6.9.

Here's a link to my variation:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=6771295&postcount=844

I'll post a tasting update in the near future. I think I have one bottle left. My "lipstick on a pig concord" was a big hit.

 

[akira7799]

So, here are some tasting notes:

Appearance - Good color, good legs. Fairly decent color permeation from edge to edge.
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1461883443.774114.jpg
View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1461883856.381744.jpg

Aroma - Faint sweet aroma reminiscent of cotton candy. Not super aromatic; need to struggle for a good bouquet. The acid may be killing other scents.

Body - On the thinner side of the body spectrum. It might feel thinner due to acidity. The 13.5% ABV helps boost the thin body and mouthfeel.

Taste - Nicer taste for a dry Concord, but very very tart. The acidity dominates the taste. I can taste a little oak, but it's overwhelmed by the acidity. The "foxiness" and "muskiness" of Concord is very noticeable. It has a grape soda flavor too--I attribute it to the Concord foxiness and muskiness.

Finish - Acidity dominates the finish. No off-flavors are present in the aftertaste and finish, just the acid bite from the concord.

Overall thought - Decent for a dry concord, but way too much acidity. The acidity dominates the whole wine. It detracts from the nose, body, taste, and finish.

When I make this one again I'll use
- 2 or 3 concentrate cans per gallon (and use no additional store-bought grape juice)
- boost OG with sucrose instead of dextrose
- adjust pH (to 3.5ish) with Acidex or chalk
- Use same amount of oak in secondary and hope it comes through without the acid bite.

Good luck!

 

[olephart]

...So I'm gonna try making this wine this evening using a glass gallon jug. Can I just put a blowoff tube in some sanitizer, or is the napkin, (I'm thinking an old CLEAN sock would fit nicely ), the best bet for the first 5 days or so?
Thanks

 

[olephart]

...So I'm gonna try making this wine this evening using a glass gallon jug. Can I just put a blowoff tube in some sanitizer, or is the napkin, (I'm thinking an old CLEAN sock would fit nicely ), the best bet for the first 5 days or so?
Thanks

What would be a okay substitute for "Grape Tannin"? MLHBS does not have grape tannin, only "Wine Tannin" containing chestnut extract. I'm not too sure about using it because of nut allergies in my family.

A couple of raisins,or a cup of strong tea?

 

[olephart]

What would be a okay substitute for "Grape Tannin"? MLHBS does not have grape tannin, only "Wine Tannin" containing chestnut extract. I'm not too sure about using it because of nut allergies in my family.

A couple of raisins,or a cup of strong tea?

...I made a strong cup of black tea, tossed in a dozen chopped raisins. Dumped the "tea" in with the water to boil the sugar, peptic acid, and yeast nutrient. When it cooled, I put it in the gal jug with the juice. Aerated, etc.

 

[Wooden]

What would be a okay substitute for "Grape Tannin"? MLHBS does not have grape tannin, only "Wine Tannin" containing chestnut extract. I'm not too sure about using it because of nut allergies in my family.

A couple of raisins,or a cup of strong tea?

Ole,

As far as I understand, they are pretty processed and more or less tannic acid. I thought they were the same, though I am not an experienced winemaker.

According to this website, both "wine tannin" and "grape tannin" are both tannic acid: though it appears the "grape tannin" is a darker color and better for reds, the "wine tannin" is geared toward white and rose.

http://www.eckraus.com/2-oz-wine-tannin.html

Again, check with someone more experienced or read the website or call them and see what you think, but that's how I am reading it.

As for nut allergies, I guess that's one where you're better safe than sorry. Tannins are basically the "zest" of a grape if that makes sense, from the peels. One thing you could try is go to the grocery store and buy some concord grapes and smash them. (Again, purely an idea, not tried this, but seems logical).

Plums (the skins) are also high in tannins. I would think raisins would impart some, or maybe better yet Zante Currant (in the raisin section, available at most grocery stores). Apples also have tannins, I would guess going for the skins but the more grape-like the better. Black Tea does have tannins. Lots of people do this for meads.

I would suppose blueberries might have them, you could try that (I absolutely could not see that turning out bad unless it got infected).

In the end, I don't think a lack of tannin would be the end of the world if it's just a gallon, it's not like it will age forever anyway. I haven't made mine yet, but I would go ahead; just keep your expectations modest, relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew, and you'll be happy.

 

[olephart]

Ole,

As far as I understand, they are pretty processed and more or less tannic acid. I thought they were the same, though I am not an experienced winemaker.

According to this website, both "wine tannin" and "grape tannin" are both tannic acid: though it appears the "grape tannin" is a darker color and better for reds, the "wine tannin" is geared toward white and rose.

http://www.eckraus.com/2-oz-wine-tannin.html

Again, check with someone more experienced or read the website or call them and see what you think, but that's how I am reading it.

As for nut allergies, I guess that's one where you're better safe than sorry. Tannins are basically the "zest" of a grape if that makes sense, from the peels. One thing you could try is go to the grocery store and buy some concord grapes and smash them. (Again, purely an idea, not tried this, but seems logical).

Plums (the skins) are also high in tannins. I would think raisins would impart some, or maybe better yet Zante Currant (in the raisin section, available at most grocery stores). Apples also have tannins, I would guess going for the skins but the more grape-like the better. Black Tea does have tannins. Lots of people do this for meads.

I would suppose blueberries might have them, you could try that (I absolutely could not see that turning out bad unless it got infected).

In the end, I don't think a lack of tannin would be the end of the world if it's just a gallon, it's not like it will age forever anyway. I haven't made mine yet, but I would go ahead; just keep your expectations modest, relax, don't worry, and have a homebrew, and you'll be happy.

The two lhbs near me, (25 mi. radius), both carry the nut extract wine tannin: http://homebrew.voelckerbeverage.com/wine-tannin-p/ld6300a.htm
"...from European/Spanish Chestnut tree"

I'm not really worried about long term storage, I don't see this tasty beverage lasting too long...

 

[olephart]

Day two and It looks like the foaming has dropped:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1jng8QYyuuHWXJTaWNQamdadE0

Is it safe to remove the cloth and rubber band from the jug mouth and install a blow off tube into a jar of sanitizer, or a airlock?

 

[z-bob]

How about adding a piece of pomegranate rind? They have very high levels of tannin.

 

[Wooden]

The two lhbs near me, (25 mi. radius), both carry the nut extract wine tannin: http://homebrew.voelckerbeverage.com/wine-tannin-p/ld6300a.htm
"...from European/Spanish Chestnut tree"

I'm not really worried about long term storage, I don't see this tasty beverage lasting too long...

Hmmmm... Never noticed it contained nuts! I would suggest just ordering the stuff from EC Kraus or another online shop nearest you. For me, the online shops nearby often ship day of order...

I am sure your patience is getting to you though, I totally understand...

I could be wrong but I don't think you absolutely have to add the tannin when you pitch yeast. I think people do it in secondary oftentimes, especially after tasting. Before aging I believe is the key.

Pom rind? Maybe. I tend to go with things thought that I know what it tastes like. Crushed Pomegranate or pomegranate juice would probably work as well. I would try the latter because it's easier, cleaner, and there's probably juice from a dozen pomegranates in one bottle.

I would vote for the steeped black tea at this point. Like I've said, people have had success with that in meads, apfelwein, etc.

Regarding the rubber band, I would say you're good to go to airlock. That is petty vigorous, but a blowoff tube you would for sure be fine, airlock I think you would be OK too. If you can monitor it for a few hours that be best. If the airlock gets clogged, go to a blowoff tube.

And do know, if your house heats up on a hot day or you turn on the furnace, that will increase the vigor of the fermentation and it could blow off at that point. But if I were a betting man I would say you're probably good.

 

[olephart]

...
And do know, if your house heats up on a hot day or you turn on the furnace, that will increase the vigor of the fermentation and it could blow off at that point. But if I were a betting man I would say you're probably good.

The house temperature seems pretty stable, thermostat is usually set at 68* or 70*.
The stick on thermometer on the jug is reading about 77*. The yeasties are still happy but slowing down a bit, (one bubble per second).

 

[BarleyAndVine]

If you want to make a "good" concord wine, here are some of my best tips. #1 Make sure there are no stabilizers in the juice. #2 Make sure you do not add so much sugar that it exceeds the yeasts ability to work. #3 Use Potassium Metabisulphite as a santizer. It sanitizes, kills wild yeast, and helps prevent oxidation. #4 When fermentation is complete, stabilize with Potassium Sorbate. #5 When wine is clear, taste it, if bitter, add sweeten with a simple syrup to taste. If you want to use a yeast that will keep a little residual sweetness, MA33 by Vintner's Harvest is a good choice. Two secrets to making the best possible wine are: Wine likes it friends - age in bulk and Time: give wine plenty of time.

 

[z-bob]

I recently drank the last bottle of the 3 gallons I started last October. (Costco bottled grape juice, enough sugar to hit 1.085, 71B yeast) I primed them in swing-top bottles, and they did carbonate eventually but I think I liked it better flat.

Time to start another 4 or 5 gallon batch. I might use Côte des Blancs yeast this time, and primary it in a bucket instead of a carboy.

 

[z-bob]

Okay, I bought the grape juice, and some potassium bicarb to cut the acidity a little. Should I use Côte des Blancs or D47 yeast? I have both. I'm going to bottle half of it still, and half of it sparkling but not *too* fizzy.

 

[MindenMan]

I have made a few batches of "welch's wine" using different methods but all my hard ciders/wines start out the same way; apple juice or cider in a 1 gallon jug and I pour off 1 pint of the juice and add back a 12 can of concentrate. I use different juice concentrates and get different results if I add the non-apple concentrate at the beginning of fermentation, or if I add it later on. I generally add multiple cans of concentrate, just not all at the same time. Considering the fact that most of my hard ciders become applejack, for my tastes 1 can of Welch's adds enough flavor to the final product. White grape and white grape peach make some really tasty cider/wine and make really amazing applejack. I am putting together a 5 gallon batch this week and will be using Sweet Mead yeast by Wyeast for the first time; this yeast ferments out to 12% before there is any residual sweetness left. I will shoot for an O.G. that would normally make a 14% cider and see what I have left of the sugar when fermentation is finished. This will be a 100% applejack batch, so if it ferments out a little more or a little less it won't be a problem I will adjust it before I put it in the freezer to concentrate it. Was this TMI?

 

[Wooden]

I have made a few batches of "welch's wine" using different methods but all my hard ciders/wines start out the same way; apple juice or cider in a 1 gallon jug and I pour off 1 pint of the juice and add back a 12 can of concentrate. I use different juice concentrates and get different results if I add the non-apple concentrate at the beginning of fermentation, or if I add it later on. I generally add multiple cans of concentrate, just not all at the same time. Considering the fact that most of my hard ciders become applejack, for my tastes 1 can of Welch's adds enough flavor to the final product. White grape and white grape peach make some really tasty cider/wine and make really amazing applejack. I am putting together a 5 gallon batch this week and will be using Sweet Mead yeast by Wyeast for the first time; this yeast ferments out to 12% before there is any residual sweetness left. I will shoot for an O.G. that would normally make a 14% cider and see what I have left of the sugar when fermentation is finished. This will be a 100% applejack batch, so if it ferments out a little more or a little less it won't be a problem I will adjust it before I put it in the freezer to concentrate it. Was this TMI?

If I were you, I would get rid of the last 3 words before "Was this TMI?".

 

[Raenon]

Freeze concentration isn't illegal or even frowned upon in this forum. It's been discussed time and time again.

 

[eigua]

Freeze concentration isn't illegal or even frowned upon in this forum. It's been discussed time and time again.

According to Wikipedia it is illegal in the USA:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_freezing#Alcoholic_beverages

Here's the original reference for that information.

Not that it matters.

 

[z-bob]

I started 4 gallons fermenting Saturday in a 5 gallon bucket. No air lock, just a lid sitting on top but not sealed. I'll be going out of town next Sunday for 2 weeks. Do I rack it to a 4 gallon carboy next weekend, or wait until I get back?