Weird issue after conditioning

[mjf474]

Just wanted to run this by everyone to try to figure out where I went wrong.

Brewed my first beer in April. I brewed a hoppy ale. I was very careful to sanitize everything during the brewing process. After two weeks, I tasted the beer and took the hydrometer reading. The beer tasted good and the reading was what the kit said it should be. So I bottled. I used the priming sugar and didn't notice any issues. Again I was careful to sanitize. Bottled and let them sit two weeks. Opened one after two weeks and it was great! Had a few more. All great. Had a nice hoppy smell and good taste. It was very similar to Founders All Day IPA.

So, after about another two weeks, I opened one and it just lacked flavor and did not have the nice hops smell. You would not want to drink it. It was very bland yet still carbonated. I opened another, same thing. Opened another and took notice of the cap. Seemed it was one correctly. That one also was bad. I went through 4... all bad. Next day I tried another few and they too were the same. This past weekend I tried another 6. 2 out of the 6 were good. The other 4 were bad like the others. So strange.

Because of the two that were good, I'm guessing I did not sanitize the bottles long enough? I did not time it when I sanitized them. If they were all bad, I would figure something got into the batch. But being that two are still good, and the beer was good initially, seems like maybe a problem with the bottles / sanitizing, correct?

 

[Calypso]

If the flavor is flat and bland, but you don't notice any other off flavors (sour, vinegar, etc.) or gushing when you open the bottle then this sounds like bad oxidation. How careful were you to limit splashing of the beer when you bottled? Also, check the caps on the bottles. If you can spin them then they're not on well enough.

 

[zippy84]

Can you describe the 'bad' taste? Was the carbonation level the same in all bottles you've tasted?

Hop flavour can dissipate over time, which would lead to a bland taste.. I don't think this is your problem though as you're still tasting what you describe as decent bottles?

How did you sanitize? Have you tried bottles from the begining and end of the bottling process or notice a distinct difference in either?

 

[mjf474]

Flat and bland pretty much sums it up. No off flavors. So, bad oxidation huh? I don't remember splashing it around much when bottling. I used one of those spring loaded bottle fillers. I'll have to check the caps later. Maybe I simply didn't get most of them on tight enough. Thanks for the response. I'll check the caps and post back, so others will know for future reference.

 

[zippy84]

Flat and bland pretty much sums it up. No off flavors. So, bad oxidation huh? I don't remember splashing it around much when bottling. I used one of those spring loaded bottle fillers. I'll have to check the caps later. Maybe I simply didn't get most of them on tight enough. Thanks for the response. I'll check the caps and post back, so others will know for future reference.

Oxidation would produce a wet cardboard like taste. Try turning a bottle upside down for a few hours, if it's tight it shouldn't leak.

 

[Calypso]

Also, it's a stretch, but did you sanitize your bottle caps?

 

[mjf474]

I definitely sanitized the caps... actually probably longer than anything else.

I'll try the upside down bottle test tonight with a bunch. And yes, I think a wet cardboard taste may describe it well. So, too much oxidation possibly from loose caps, could be the culprit. Damn, I really thought I put those on tight!

 

[Bosh]

Hop flavor tends to dissipate over time. Maybe just add more late addition and dry hops?

 

[mjf474]

Hop flavors wouldn't dissipate in just a month and a half, would they?

 

[hanuswalrus]

According to my taste buds, yes, hop flavor fades quite a bit after a month and a half. I try to drink hop-forward beers as quickly as possible after full carbonation is reached. I'll give my IPA's about 2 weeks in the bottle, then test one, if it's carbed, I'll start throwing them in the fridge for consumption. That's just me though. Some people say all beer needs at least 3 weeks in the bottle.

 

[HomeDrewBrew]

Did u happen to use a wing capper?
I do that for mine and have noticed the wet cardboard taste as well.
Ive turned everybottle upsidedown after capping for couple seconds and no leaks and carbs well!.

 

[mrgrimm101]

Yes, hop flavors and aromas will fade over time. When this happens, you're left with a sweeter, maltier beer, and still probably pretty bitter. I wouldn't describe the remaining flavor as bland or flat..lots of times they end up more like a barleywine. Everyone has different tastes though.

I used to oxidize the crap out of my first few batches because I never used a bottle wand. They tasted great after about 2 weeks of conditioning, but soon started to degrade and become absolute crap. I've since learned the proper methods. Also, when you're transferring over to the bottling bucket, make sure your hose is properly attached to the siphon or air could get in. You pretty much want to avoid splashing or creating bubbles after fermentation is complete.

 

[Calypso]

Hop flavors wouldn't dissipate in just a month and a half, would they?

Yes, somewhat, but the beer still shouldn't taste horrible. I have a six month th old IPA that still tastes good, it just lost a lot of the dry hop aroma.

 

[m00ps]

I've found that hop flavor can fade quicker depending on the amount of oxygen that got to the beer when you bottled or took samples from the fermentor. For IPAs, you should try to be especially careful to minimize the amount of oxygenation that can occur. Try barely cracking the fermentor lid (or use a carboy) and take your sample quickly. Dont take too many samples. When you bottle, keep a lid on the bottling bucker once you siphon the beer and make sure there's no sloshing around. It also can help to purge the bottling bucket with CO2 as best you can. Kegging definitely helps prevent oxygenation

But yeah, it can suck. I've had great IPAs that turned into muddled strong pale ales in 2 months time. I keg all my IPAs now and bottle some from the keg. Seems to make them last longer

 

[rmyurick]

If it's flat, maybe you didn't get your priming solution mixed in well? or did you mean it just tastes flat?

 

[mjf474]

I meant that it just tastes flat and lacks flavor. It's still carbonated.

I did use a wing capper. Seemed kind of ....not so sturdy. Maybe the caps just aren't on great. But I did take a bunch of bottles and turn upside down for a few hours. No leaks. Could have also been oxygenation when transferring to the bottling bucket.

Next time I will definitely watch more carefully. Can anyone recommend a better capper?

 

[hanuswalrus]

I seriously doubt it's your capper, but I guess you never know..

Just be as careful as possible on your next bottling day to avoid splashing or introducing o2 to your beer. I had the same issues you described, and being more careful on bottling day has led to better beers for me. Oxygen is fermented beer's worst enemy

 

[christyle]

I dont think it's your capper, but if you want a more sturdy one, I love this one. I used to break a bottle or two each batch, and it got worse after a year or so. Never had an issue with this capper:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007CZI6BG/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Sounds like the transfer from carboy to bottling bucket was the issue. I've had some issue lately with my autosiphon not sealing well, or clogging and pulling air instead, I'm worried about my latest batch because of this now.

 

[Calypso]

I know it's really finicky, but I don't mess around when it comes to oxidation. I bought tubing with the same interior diameter as my racking cane and bottling wand. Then I bought tubing with a larger diameter and cut a couple of ~2 inch pieces. I then use these pieces to connect the racking cane and bottling wand to the tubing.

The reason I did this is because before, when the tubing was larger diameter than the racking cane and I just connected it directly, I was would get a lot of oxygen mixing with the beer at that point. Now it flows smooth with no oxygen mixing in.

 

[hanuswalrus]

Couple other tips:

1.) Make sure your tubing is long enough to make it from your racking cane all the way to bottom of your bottling bucket. Preferrable laying at the bottom, submerged under your priming solution that should already be in there before you start your siphon.

2.) When you start the siphon, check where the tubing meets the racking cane. Mine sometimes starts to bubble there in the beginning. If you just play with it for a second (move the tubing around.. I bend it slightly upward), it should stop bubbling and continue with a smooth flow. Works for me at least.

 

[christyle]

Couple other tips:
2.) When you start the siphon, check where the tubing meets the racking cane. Mine sometimes starts to bubble there in the beginning. If you just play with it for a second (move the tubing around.. I bend it slightly upward), it should stop bubbling and continue with a smooth flow. Works for me at least.

Fold over the tubing or pinch it, this will increase the velocity and pull the air bubble with it. I do it on mine asap when starting a siphon