Water Test Results

[zentr]

Hey all! I recently sent a water sample to Ward Laboratories and I got the results. I plan to spend time with the Bru'n Water worksheet (probably a lot of time), but I thought I would post the results here and see what your initial thoughts are. I know there are a lot of knowledgeable people on these forums and I would appreciate any feedback. I've been jumping from style to style so I can't say there is one single style/water chemistry I am trying to match.

Thank you!


pH 7.8
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 268
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.45
Cations / Anions, me/L 4.8 / 4.7 ppm
Sodium, Na 109
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca < 1
Magnesium, Mg < 1
Total Hardness, CaCO3 < 1
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.4 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 4
Chloride, Cl 8
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 257
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 211
Total Phosphorus, P 1.26
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

 

[bobbrews]

Fairly low levels of everything aside from the Sodium and Bicarbonate levels, which are quite high and will need to be tamed for many beers. Additionally, I would look into boosting Calcium, Magnesium, Sulfate, Chloride.

 

[mabrungard]

That water has the look of a ion-exchange softened water. Is it?

The sodium is higher than desirable and the bicarbonate level is going to make mash pH troublesome to achieve the desirable range for most beers. If the water was taken from a post-softener tap, do see if there is a place to obtain water that isn't softened. That would be more suitable to brew with as long as manganese and iron are not high. Softeners take out those metals too.

 

[zentr]

Thanks bobbrews and mabrungard!

I was just thinking the same thing mabrungard. You're right, I do have well water that runs through a water softener. I know enough to make the connection between bobbrews high sodium comment and the water softener. I'll have to look closer at the pipes and see if there is a place to get water before the softener system.

I plan to re-read Palmer's chapter on water. Use Bru'n Water's worksheet. And consider how to boost those low numbers.

I'm hoping to have basically three water chemistry "settings" for different categories of styles. I'll need to know what to add to get an expected and consistent profile.

 

[zentr]

Just saw the connection mabrungard = Bru'n Water. Very cool. Thanks again!

 

[mabrungard]

Exterior hose bibs are typically not softened. But if the house is old, that sort of segregation may not be in place.

Tell-tale signs of excessive iron or manganese in the water are rust- or black-colored water staining on plumbing fixtures, respectively. If everything in the house is hooked to the softener, then it may not be possible to see this evidence.

Taste is also a strong indicator. Most people can taste these metals at very low concentration. If it tastes metallic, then the water probably has concentrations of either of these that might come through in the beer.

Send another sample to Ward if you can find a tap with raw water.

 

[ajdelange]

It's easy to check for iron. Go to your pressure tank. Near the pressure switch there will be a dump valve. Draw a sample of water from that. Pour it back and forth between two tumblers to get it thoroughly aerated. Then pour through a piece of paper towel folded into a triangle and stuck in a kitchen funnel. If the towel becomes stained then you have iron.

If the water turns gray or yellow or grayish orange or anything like that then you can skip the paper towel step - you have iron.

 

[zentr]

Thanks for the tip ajdelange. I'll definitely try that.

I do have a place to get water right where it comes into the house. There is a threaded(!) faucet. I didn't try it last night or taste it. I'll let it run into a 5 gallon bucket for awhile then take a sample upstairs. Check the color and taste.

...I probably will send another sample to Ward lab. I don't really want to, but water is a pretty darn important ingredient in beer. I've already jumped into this (water) with both feet, no sense in going halfway now.

Thanks all! You guys are great!

 

[zentr]

I sampled some of the water just as it comes into the house (before water softener). The water appears perfectly clear. Tastes fine. No discoloration when I poured some onto a white napkin. It may be fine; akin to spring water. I just ordered another test from Ward so that I know what I have. May be a more viable source. We'll see.

 

[afr0byte]

I sampled some of the water just as it comes into the house (before water softener). The water appears perfectly clear. Tastes fine. No discoloration when I poured some onto a white napkin. It may be fine; akin to spring water. I just ordered another test from Ward so that I know what I have. May be a more viable source. We'll see.

It'll probably be fine in the sense that you won't have that high sodium, but you'll still need to do something about the alkalinity.

 

[zentr]

Fair enough. I assume I'll be treating the water in some way, especially as I try to match a profile for a certain beer style or group of styles.

Would you say it is easier to treat alkalinity or to remove sodium?

Thanks!

 

[afr0byte]

Fair enough. I assume I'll be treating the water in some way, especially as I try to match a profile for a certain beer style or group of styles.

Would you say it is easier to treat alkalinity or to remove sodium?

Thanks!

Well, I'd imagine it's easier to buy an RO unit, which is the only way I know of to remove sodium. However, depending on your results for your unfiltered water, you may be able to pretty effectively lime soften your water. I don't know how much softeners affect sulfate and chloride, but if they stay the same in the new sample, you have mostly temporary hardness, so lime softening could be a good option.

 

[mabrungard]

Alkalinity is easy to neutralize with an acid. If the alkalinity is not too high, then the concentration of the acid's anion won't be too high. We're on pg 2 of this thread, so I can't see the alkalinity value originally posted. The alkalinity will have to be dealt with for either the unsoftened or softened water, so I'd recommend the unsoftened water to avoid the sodium.

As afr0byte mentioned, sodium is very difficult to remove unless deionizing columns are used or RO treatment is used. Leaving the sodium in the water may add a degree of harshness to the flavor profile, so the softened water is not a great idea.

 

[zentr]

All good input/suggestions. Thanks!

It does sound like you guys concur that using my pre-softened water will (quite likely) be the better choice of a starting chemistry. From there, I could neutralize the alkalinity and boost some of the minerals. We'll have to see what the new report suggests.

I'd rather not spring for a RO unit. But I will if it ends up being a good decision for the water I have (and the great beer I want to make). Even then I suppose I would have to add something to the water.

 

[afr0byte]

All good input/suggestions. Thanks!

It does sound like you guys concur that using my pre-softened water will (quite likely) be the better choice of a starting chemistry. From there, I could neutralize the alkalinity and boost some of the minerals. We'll have to see what the new report suggests.

I'd rather not spring for a RO unit. But I will if it ends up being a good decision for the water I have (and the great beer I want to make). Even then I suppose I would have to add something to the water.

With your alkalinity at 211, I'd say you'll probably be able to taste the acid that you add to bring your pH down to the appropriate level (for light beers at least). Your water will most likely be a could candidate for lime softening, if you feel like doing the research to get it right. I made a fantastic tripel with lime softened water recently (It's not done carbonating yet, but it tastes great even after ~2.5 weeks.). Even with lime softened water, I had to use ~2.5ml of lactic acid in the mash to get my pH in range, though (5.42 measured after 15 minutes of mashing). The water had a kH of 3, which is about 53 ppm alkalinity as CaCO3.

 

[jmf143]

If your pre-softened water tastes good and is clear (no iron), why is it being softened? I'm a city boy on municipal water.

 

[afr0byte]

If your pre-softened water tastes good and is clear (no iron), why is it being softened? I'm a city boy on municipal water.

Look up limescale. The temporary hardness in his water will tend to drop out, especially when warm water is used, which can eventually plug shower heads/etc, and prevent soaps from being as effective.

 

[zentr]

Hey all!

I finally got my results from the pre-water softener sample I sent to Ward Labs (the first container they sent must have gotten lost in the mail so there was a big delay). I'm going to start scrutinizing the results myself from what I have learned over the past weeks, but I also wanted to post them here and get input from you guys. I appreciate any tips. Thanks!

Once again, this is straight from the pipe where the water from the well comes into the house.


pH 7.9
Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 259
Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.43
Cations / Anions, me/L 5.2 / 5.1
ppm
Sodium, Na 3
Potassium, K < 1
Calcium, Ca 84
Magnesium, Mg 10
Total Hardness, CaCO3 252
Nitrate, NO3-N 0.5 (SAFE)
Sulfate, SO4-S 4
Chloride, Cl 8
Carbonate, CO3 < 1
Bicarbonate, HCO3 278
Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 228
Total Phosphorus, P 0.54
Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

 

[zentr]

I put the numbers into the EZ Water Calculator. I added the grain bill for a 21st Amendment Brew Free or Die IPA clone.

With those numbers my pH was still high. So I used the ph DOWN area to put in mash water additions. With the sparge water checkboxes unchecked, I added 3 grams of gypsum, 5 grams of calcium chloride, and 6 ounces of Epsom Salt. I was able to get all the numbers in range at the bottom of the worksheet, but I still couldn't get the ph down to 5.6. However, I did get it down to 5.67, which might be close enough (?).

 

[afr0byte]

I put the numbers into the EZ Water Calculator. I added the grain bill for a 21st Amendment Brew Free or Die IPA clone.

With those numbers my pH was still high. So I used the ph DOWN area to put in mash water additions. With the sparge water checkboxes unchecked, I added 3 grams of gypsum, 5 grams of calcium chloride, and 6 ounces of Epsom Salt. I was able to get all the numbers in range at the bottom of the worksheet, but I still couldn't get the ph down to 5.6. However, I did get it down to 5.67, which might be close enough (?).

Your water is a great candidate for lime softening if you want to bother trying that. Either way, though, especially with something light in color and low in acidity like a DIPA, you'll often need acid to lower your pH. You'll want to dilute your water with RO if you don't lime soften it, though.

 

[zentr]

So maybe I should add a ml of lactic acid?

 

[afr0byte]

So maybe I should add a ml of lactic acid?

If it were me I'd lower the alkalinity by at least 3/4 of it's current value (RO dilution is the easiest, but you could also use lime softening with your water (It would be cheaper than buying RO if you don't have a cheap RO machine, but you'd at least need to buy an aquarium kH test kit.).) for an IPA. I'd then add enough gypsum to get the calcium up to at least 50 (but 100 wouldn't hurt either...I'm just not a huge fan of sulfate). Add to that around 2-3ml of lactic acid. Lowering the pH using all that calcium and magnesium will make your beer taste pretty minerally, which is why I wouldn't go that route.

 

[zentr]

Thanks afr0byte! Great information there.

So you are saying to do the following:
1. lime soften the water
2. Use 2-3 ml of lactic acid to lower pH
3. Add gypsum to increase calcium

I don't know how to go about lime softening. Is there a particular chemical addition? Or do I need some sort of equipment?

 

[afr0byte]

Thanks afr0byte! Great information there.

So you are saying to do the following:
1. lime soften the water
2. Use 2-3 ml of lactic acid to lower pH
3. Add gypsum to increase calcium

I don't know how to go about lime softening. Is there a particular chemical addition? Or do I need some sort of equipment?

Well, if you want to try lime softening, you could read up on it on Kai's website http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Alkalinity_reduction_with_slaked_lime. You'll need, at least, 1-14 pH strips, slaked lime (pickling lime), scale that's accurate to at least tenths of a gram, and a kH test kit to see how much alkalinity is left over after the lime treatment. Keep in mind the initial investment would be more for this, but you'll save in the long run. Personally I'd suggest you try just diluting with RO water to start.

 

[zentr]

I agree. One thing at a time. If I understand correctly, if I use 50% RO to my mash (2 gal), that will should take care of my alkalinity issue. Some lactic acid will bring down my ph. Some Calcium Chloride and Epsom Salts will get my Calcium, Chloride, and Sulfate levels where they need to be.

Learning to do lime softening is another project for later perhaps.

Thanks again!