Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[@RoyalGallon]

I don't know if 15c counts as warm but i am cold crashing a SMASH Bohemian pilsner and saaz fermented with MJ Bohemian. Sample tasted promising, should be drinkable in a week. Looked clear so fingers crossed. Will up the temperature next time around.

I struggled with that yeast doing a week at 17C and two weeks at 13C.
It’s really gloopy - a lot of higher alcohols and esters.

I’d be interested to see how you get on at a higher temp if you tried it.

 

[Beer666]

I struggled with that yeast doing a week at 17C and two weeks at 13C.
It’s really gloopy - a lot of higher alcohols and esters.

I’d be interested to see how you get on at a higher temp if you tried it.

I kegged it last night and looked crystal clear and tasted very promising. I have used half the yeast cake for another batch which will be fermented at around 17c. The MJ Bohemian seems to have cleared faster than Wyeast although not used that in a while (will try it warm soon).
I have ditched a few batches recently brewed with MJ54. One i accidentally cold crashed after a week and it came out like you described above.

 

[Miraculix]

I kegged it last night and looked crystal clear and tasted very promising. I have used half the yeast cake for another batch which will be fermented at around 17c. The MJ Bohemian seems to have cleared faster than Wyeast although not used that in a while (will try it warm soon).
I have ditched a few batches recently brewed with MJ54. One i accidentally cold crashed after a week and it came out like you described above.

How did you manage to **** up multiple batches with mj California lager? it is literally the most forgiving yeast I ever tried! Did you ferment it too cold maybe? I never went below 20c. But it even worked above 30c, though getting a bit fruity in this temp range.

 

[Beer666]

How did you manage to **** up multiple batches with mj California lager? it is literally the most forgiving yeast I ever tried! Did you ferment it too cold maybe? I never went below 20c. But it even worked above 30c, though getting a bit fruity in this temp range.

I think i under pitched one batch or it was infected and the other i rushed. Cold crashed before the end of fermentation when i misread the date. A very stupid mistake.

 

[Miraculix]

I think i under pitched one batch or it was infected and the other i rushed. Cold crashed before the end of fermentation when i misread the date. A very stupid mistake.

Oh, Yeah... Fell for it as well... Tried once to rush a 3470 warm lager. Was not a good idea. And also had an infected one which ended up with a lot of clove, which wasn't bad at all. Just highly overcarbonated which was a bit annoying.

 

[Toxxyc]

Hey, never saw this thread. I fermented a lager with MJ's M54. So far so good. Bottled last night, kept fermentation temps in it's recommended range (and even lower) and it went well, without hassles. Fermentation was slightly slower than expected and it ate from 1.038 down to 1.008 in about 11 days.

 

[Tulsahomebrewer]

My second warm ferment beer is a small batch Doppelbock....maintaining temp of 70F for 8 days now. This time I will be more patient and wait another week. Pitched S-04 yeast. Krausen has dropped and almost disappeared at the moment. Plan on priming and bottling, at room temp for a week and then refrigerate for 2-3 weeks.

 

[Phunhog]

My second warm ferment beer is a small batch Doppelbock....maintaining temp of 70F for 8 days now. This time I will be more patient and wait another week. Pitched S-04 yeast. Krausen has dropped and almost disappeared at the moment. Plan on priming and bottling, at room temp for a week and then refrigerate for 2-3 weeks.View attachment 591871

Sorry but S-04 is nowhere near a lager yeast. I am sure you will make a drinkable beer.

 

[seatazzz]

Brewed up a Centennial SMaSH lager this morning, and tonight it's chugging along on 4th gen 34/70 slurry that did a fantastic job on the first three beers it fermented. I've been keeping all of my WF lagers at 64, that seems to be the happy medium for drinkable tasty beers. If it floccs out well this week will add some dry hop to it next Saturday and leave it another week. Got plenty in the pipeline right now so can afford to let this one sit for a while.

 

[@RoyalGallon]

I had another go at the Bud recipe yesterday this time using the S-189 yeast instead of the M84 I used last time. I'm also changing the fermentation profile from the 17C->13C they use in the brewery to follow Brulosophy's Lager profile.
Ironically it appears to be the complete opposite 13C->18C!

I kept some of the the gluey brew from last time and primed it in bottles. Tried one on Saturday and I must admit it's improving. It's not good or Bud but it's approaching drinkable. Maybe a few more weeks and I'll have salvaged some beer.

 

[divrack]

I struggled with that yeast doing a week at 17C and two weeks at 13C.
It’s really gloopy - a lot of higher alcohols and esters.

I’d be interested to see how you get on at a higher temp if you tried it.

This was pretty much my experience. At 3 weeks it was still full of sulphur. Couple weeks later that had cleared but was still a bit hot. Few weeks later it was quite good, but really I could have made a traditional schedule lager in around this time so I'm not convinced personally.
Ended up good but not the best lager I've ever made.

 

[Beer666]

This was pretty much my experience. At 3 weeks it was still full of sulphur. Couple weeks later that had cleared but was still a bit hot. Few weeks later it was quite good, but really I could have made a traditional schedule lager in around this time so I'm not convinced personally.
Ended up good but not the best lager I've ever made.

Interesting. I am fermenting the MJ bohemian now at 17c and getting very little in the way of sulfur. I will have to try the wyeast next to compare as i seem to remember it being more farty. Fingers crossed it will be a clean beer.

 

[divrack]

Sorry, actually I misread the post. I had used 34/70. No experience with m54 warm.
I know it's the strain of choice though here, just wasn't very quick and the results weren't great for me. Absolutely not bad though, so if anyone can't keep lager temp Id definitely recommend it. I can't remember if I fermented it in the chamber or just in the house though so it could have been other issues I suppose.

 

[InspectorJon]

So, regarding MJ M54 being a slow starter . . . I pitched 1 pack of re-hydrated yeast into 1.75 gallons of wort for my California Bliss and it took around 24 hours to show activity in the air lock. Temperature was 66-67 degrees. I took 20 oz of yeast slurry from that brew and pitched it into 3 gallons of Doppelbock wort at 68 degrees and the airlock started bubbling in 3 hours. Going strong 18 hours later. Lots of airlock activity but no krausen.

Update on MJ M54 doppelbock:
This has been in the fermenter for 17 days now. Gravity has stabilized at 1.020. OG was 1.072. That makes 71% AA. Mash temp was 155F. For the first few days of active fermentation temp was 68F then up to maybe 72. It has been hanging between 69 and 71 for the last ten days. It is still a little cloudy but has a nice brown color. Started cold crashing today and will gelatin fine once it hits ice water temp tomorrow and bottle this weekend. Gravity sample tasted great.

Regarding the somewhat low AA (71%) could that be due to low mash efficiency? I pitched a lot of yeast. Interestingly that mash efficiency was also 71%. Mashed at 155 for 1 hour, BIAB method. I ended with 1.072 OG but was expecting 1.076-80. I feel like maybe I should have let it rest longer before lifting the bag. MJ website lists AA at 77% to 81%. I feel like this was going to stop around 1.020 regardless due to the 155 mash temp and if I had gotten a better OG, attenuation would have been better. Is this correct thinking?

 

[Tulsahomebrewer]

Update on MJ M54 doppelbock:
This has been in the fermenter for 17 days now. Gravity has stabilized at 1.020. OG was 1.072. That makes 71% AA. Mash temp was 155F. For the first few days of active fermentation temp was 68F then up to maybe 72. It has been hanging between 69 and 71 for the last ten days. It is still a little cloudy but has a nice brown color. Started cold crashing today and will gelatin fine once it hits ice water temp tomorrow and bottle this weekend. Gravity sample tasted great.

Regarding the somewhat low AA (71%) could that be due to low mash efficiency? I pitched a lot of yeast. Interestingly that mash efficiency was also 71%. Mashed at 155 for 1 hour, BIAB method. I ended with 1.072 OG but was expecting 1.076-80. I feel like maybe I should have let it rest longer before lifting the bag. MJ website lists AA at 77% to 81%. I feel like this was going to stop around 1.020 regardless due to the 155 mash temp and if I had gotten a better OG, attenuation would have been better. Is this correct thinking?

Are you planning on cold crashing in primary? My small batch D-bock is in the primary now for 11 days, but I pitched S04. OG 1.079 and yesterday it was at 1.021 (74% AA). I will ferment for one more week maybe and want to cold crash for a few days.

 

[InspectorJon]

Are you planning on cold crashing in primary?

Yes. I keep my glass carboy fermenter in an ice chest filled with water to about the same level as the wort/beer. I add a frozen gel pack or frozen water bottle if the temp gets too warm. I just add a bunch of ice when it is time to cold crash. I could do cooler lager fermenting this way but it would not be practical to try and do a long term cold lager like this. This is the first time I have used this setup to make a lager at ale temps.

 

[Beer666]

Update on MJ M54 doppelbock:
This has been in the fermenter for 17 days now. Gravity has stabilized at 1.020. OG was 1.072. That makes 71% AA. Mash temp was 155F. For the first few days of active fermentation temp was 68F then up to maybe 72. It has been hanging between 69 and 71 for the last ten days. It is still a little cloudy but has a nice brown color. Started cold crashing today and will gelatin fine once it hits ice water temp tomorrow and bottle this weekend. Gravity sample tasted great.

Regarding the somewhat low AA (71%) could that be due to low mash efficiency? I pitched a lot of yeast. Interestingly that mash efficiency was also 71%. Mashed at 155 for 1 hour, BIAB method. I ended with 1.072 OG but was expecting 1.076-80. I feel like maybe I should have let it rest longer before lifting the bag. MJ website lists AA at 77% to 81%. I feel like this was going to stop around 1.020 regardless due to the 155 mash temp and if I had gotten a better OG, attenuation would have been better. Is this correct thinking?

I would of thought 1020 would be a bit high for that yeast. All mine have finished at 1010 (about 8 batches) although i mash low and don't go over 1050.

 

[InspectorJon]

This was suppose to finish at 1020, that is typical of this beer style and for the 155 degree mash temp I think. I just wonder if I had gotten more points into my preboil gravity if my attenuation percentage might have gone up while still ending at 1020.

 

[Miraculix]

This was suppose to finish at 1020, that is typical of this beer style and for the 155 degree mash temp I think. I just wonder if I had gotten more points into my preboil gravity if my attenuation percentage might have gone up while still ending at 1020.

No. Not correlated.

 

[Toxxyc]

I bottled my warm-fermented lager last week and the bottles seem to be carbonating nicely. I'm not sure if it's the yeast (MJ's M54) or if it's the gelatin I used to fine, but the beer isn't clearing as quickly or as nicely as previous batches I've made. The sediment is VERY powdery and very loose, stirring up into suspension when simply picking up a beer from the crate. I'm hoping it'll settle a bit more, because if it doesn't it seems I'll be sitting with a cloudy batch of beer.

 

[Miraculix]

I bottled my warm-fermented lager last week and the bottles seem to be carbonating nicely. I'm not sure if it's the yeast (MJ's M54) or if it's the gelatin I used to fine, but the beer isn't clearing as quickly or as nicely as previous batches I've made. The sediment is VERY powdery and very loose, stirring up into suspension when simply picking up a beer from the crate. I'm hoping it'll settle a bit more, because if it doesn't it seems I'll be sitting with a cloudy batch of beer.

If you bottled cloudy beer, than you did something wrong. Lager yeast in general does not stick very well to the bottom of a bottle. The key is to get as little yeast as possible into the bottle. This means waiting with the botteling till the beer dropped clear in the fermenter. Rushing it is almost never a good idea. It might also result in gushers when too much yeast is in suspension as the yeast acts as nucleotides at which the co2 gets out of solution way too quick.

 

[Toxxyc]

It wasn't VERY cloudy when I bottled. I know the process was a bit...flawed when I attempted it, since I didn't cool down the fermenter but I went for it anyway. It's clearing up a bit in the bottle though (more than it was when bottling), but it's not clearing at the rate I'm hoping. I'll be waiting a while before trying the bigger majority of these though. Hopefully they'll clear up a bit more.

 

[Miraculix]

It wasn't VERY cloudy when I bottled. I know the process was a bit...flawed when I attempted it, since I didn't cool down the fermenter but I went for it anyway. It's clearing up a bit in the bottle though (more than it was when bottling), but it's not clearing at the rate I'm hoping. I'll be waiting a while before trying the bigger majority of these though. Hopefully they'll clear up a bit more.

They should drop crystal clear with time. At latest when chilled. Only thing to worry about will be if you will be able to pour the beer without bringing the yeast back into suspension. But if the layer is not too big and you start the pouring process quickly after opening the bottle, it should work.

 

[Toxxyc]

Layers are thin, like they should be. I'm not too worried about beers not crystal clear, specially not this early in my brewing history, but a clear beer would be nice. I'll test one this weekend and revert!

 

[Tulsahomebrewer]

Well my first ever brew, warm fermented Pilsner: After all the mistakes I made of bottling too early, then having to release some CO2 to avoid bottle bombs.....it tastes good after two weeks of lagering and I guess this is as clear as it will get. I kinda miss some lingering taste at the back of my pallet something you also don’t get in a Budweiser or Coors, but much more tasty than these two ****** beers. My beerseems yo be tad undercarbed due to what I had to do.

 

[applescrap]

Awesome tulsahomebrewer. Enjoy!

 

[InspectorJon]

So I opened my first bottle of California Common tonight. I named it California Bliss. I'm very happy with it. I brewed it September 7, bottled it September 21 and tried it tonight, October 19. I used MJ M54 fermented in the upper 60s. That is not so unusual for a California Common but a little warmer than typical. I brewed a 1.5 gallon batch. I made it as a big starter for the Doppelbock I am really after. I'll report on the outcome of that in a week or so. No unusual or off flavors in the CC. Pretty much like the Anchor Steam I discovered as a teen in the 70s. That was my first introduction to an American beer with flavor. We served Anchor at our wedding in 1981. I'm very happy with the MJ M54 performance. I got 80% AA with this beer. Thanks @applescrap for starting this thread and everyone that has contributed.

 

[applescrap]

That looks so good. I love dopplebocks. Cant wait to see it.

 

[Toxxyc]

My Mangrove Jack's Dutch Lager, fermented between 18°C (start) and 24°C (diacetyl rest) across the span of the ferment. Took longer than others to clear up and it's not completely there yet, but we're getting there. It's taking longer than previous brews to "age" properly, and it still tastes quite green, but it is improving very well. It's going to age out nicely:

 

[Beer666]

Vienna lager brewed with MJ Bohemian started at 17c and ramped it up to 20c. Cold crashed for a week and fined with beer brite. Kegged last night and drinking today at 24 days old. Clean, no off flavours. Would of preferred it drier but its very drinkable already and its almost crystal clear.

Edit. Corrected the yeast type.