Warm Fermented Lager Thread

[Yesfan]

I'm wanting to branch out too and Diamond and Novalager are two yeasts I want to try on my short list. 34/70 has been on the only lager I've used lately, so I'm ready to try something new.

 

[Miraculix]

in case anyone is tallying: 34/70 is my go-to, although this spring i might branch out and try something new - possibly Diamond or NovaLager, tbd.

a few years ago, as part of a split-batch experiment i tried S-23 and it was way too ester-y for me. if i brewed lagers more often i'd consider giving it a second chance, but since lagers are a once-a-year thing for me i'm not going to risk another fruit-bomb (unless i use mandarina bavaria )

If you like 3470 warm, you'll love diamond lager warm. It's basically 3470 with much better flocculation. It is my new favourite.

 

[Willy]

I have brewed once with Diamond, and was underwhelmed, probably because I under pitched. (Should have used two )

NovaLager is my favorite in the warmer fermented lagers. I like it a lot. 34/70 remains my most used lager yeast.

 

[Miraculix]

I have brewed once with Diamond, and was underwhelmed, probably because I under pitched. (Should have used two )

NovaLager is my favorite in the warmer fermented lagers. I like it a lot. 34/70 remains my most used lager yeast.

I always make a big starter with diamond. One pack lasts me at least three batches this way.

 

[seatazzz]

I've been having good luck with 34/70 fermented under pressure at about 68, with a rise to 70 after a few days (and an increase in pressure from 15psi to 20psi). I get a good clean tasty beer out of it, on a plain grist of two-row or sometimes a mix of that and pilsner, with a clean bittering hop like Cascade or Crystal, with a bit at 10 for some flavor/aroma. Despite the somewhat bad press, the slurry from a pressure-fermented batch also does well unto the third generation for the most part, with a tsp of fermax added at 15 minutes to end of boil. Just my two cents.

 

[balrog]

I'm glad I'm not the only one. The two worst lagers I ever brewed were with 34/70. I know it's the most popular lager strain and people love it, but I'm not willing to risk the money (and beer) to give it a third chance. Same recipes I've brewed with 2124 and 2278, so I know it's not a recipe issue. Maybe I got two bad packs of 34/70 from two separate orders, who knows.

I second @mashdar ; what was the offending flavor, or whatever?

 

[Yesfan]

I second @mashdar ; what was the offending flavor, or whatever?

Same. I'd like to know as I use 34/70 as my primary lager yeast. Don't leave us hanging @crazyjake19 !

 

[Miraculix]

We need to knoooooow!!!

 

[balrog]

Well, I got the tennis guys to come over yesterday and help me and the bum shoulder brew a Summer Cervesa batch whose ingredients have been sitting around since before my injury last Fall. I chose to go two packs 34/70, 7days@62F then 7d@68F. Last time I used it was at 60F in an OFest by a user formerly known as bwarbiany, and I had major peach/green grape. We'll see what happens with all the corn in the recipe.

 

[Yesfan]

I ordered a pack each of Diamond lager and Novalager from Bobby M. Was hoping he had some Mexican lager yeast, but seems like nobody has the Baja dry yeast or White Labs wlp-940.

Also ordered a 4" triclamp with ball lock posts, floating dip tube, and a prv with a 1.5" triclamp port for my Flex+. I haven't brewed a 5 gallon batch in a while, so figured this would be a good excuse to dust off the Flex and put it to use.

 

[Shenanigans]

I'm planning on rebrewing a German Bockbier based on the Weyermann Willy Wonka Bock recipe.

https://www.weyermann.de/en-gb/product/weyermann-nr-9-willy-wonka-bock/

Last time I used WLP833 German Bock Lager yeast and it turned out great eventhough beers with 25% caramel malt are not usually my thing.
Unfortunately the WLP833 I had stored in the fridge got infected so this time I'm going to use Diamond lager which (I think) should attenuate a little better.
It won't be a true warm fermented lager as I plan on pitching it at around 12oC and leave it for about 5 days before turning off the fridge and let it warm slowly to the ambient temperaure of about 18oC in my basement to finish it off and package it on day 13 or 14.

Brew day will probably be late Jan or early Feb so I'll report back in a few months

Recipe is below

View attachment 866377

I brewed this yesterday but got some out of date dry yeasts on the internet last week with a big discount.
So I used an old pack of M76 instead of the Diamond, which should be similar or even the same yeast.
Instead of the fast lager method I'm going to go for a full warm ferment.

I pitched it at 19oC in my 17oC basement and I'm just going to let her do her stuff without any additional temperature control.
I made a 500ml starter with 1/3 of a pack and the airlock started bubbling within 12 hours.

 

[Shenanigans]

I measured the wort last night and after 3 days it has gone from 1.070 down to 1.014. I would say m76 is a fast fermenter at around 18 or 19oC. It should be finished by this weekend but I don't have it planned in to package it until the weekend after next.

 

[crazyjake19]

Same. I'd like to know as I use 34/70 as my primary lager yeast. Don't leave us hanging @crazyjake19 !

Sorry guys! It's been a busy week with snow the last three days.

I brewed a Czech pale lager and a Märzen with different packs of 34/70 and brought both to our homebrew meeting last year. A couple guys and the guy who runs the brewery where we meet both detected what they could only describe as DMS, even though I always use a 90-minute boil for pretty much all of my lagers. They're both recipes that I've brewed a few times in the past with 2278 (Czech) and 2124 (both beers) - all other aspects of the recipes were the same (grain bill, hops, mash, boil, chilling, fermentation temps, etc).

I always avoid ordering liquid yeast in the summer which I why I bought some packs of 34/70 instead.

There's certainly a chance that I got some bad packs of 34/70, given how many people love brewing with that yeast. But I'm not willing to risk $30-40 on another ruined batch or two. It's also not the correct yeast for Czech lagers anyway since it attenuates much higher than 2278 or even 2124, but that's besides the point here.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Sorry guys! It's been a busy week with snow the last three days.

I brewed a Czech pale lager and a Märzen with different packs of 34/70 and brought both to our homebrew meeting last year. A couple guys and the guy who runs the brewery where we meet both detected what they could only describe as DMS, even though I always use a 90-minute boil for pretty much all of my lagers. They're both recipes that I've brewed a few times in the past with 2278 (Czech) and 2124 (both beers) - all other aspects of the recipes were the same (grain bill, hops, mash, boil, chilling, fermentation temps, etc).

I always avoid ordering liquid yeast in the summer which I why I bought some packs of 34/70 instead.

There's certainly a chance that I got some bad packs of 34/70, given how many people love brewing with that yeast. But I'm not willing to risk $30-40 on another ruined batch or two. It's also not the correct yeast for Czech lagers anyway since it attenuates much higher than 2278 or even 2124, but that's besides the point here.

I never enjoy 34/70. I just don't enjoy the flavour. Nothing wrong with the yeast, i just much prefer others.

 

[Willy]

Just pitched three packs of NovaLager in a 10 g batch, @ 67°F.
Set for ferment at 60°F.

 

[Miraculix]

Sorry guys! It's been a busy week with snow the last three days.

I brewed a Czech pale lager and a Märzen with different packs of 34/70 and brought both to our homebrew meeting last year. A couple guys and the guy who runs the brewery where we meet both detected what they could only describe as DMS, even though I always use a 90-minute boil for pretty much all of my lagers. They're both recipes that I've brewed a few times in the past with 2278 (Czech) and 2124 (both beers) - all other aspects of the recipes were the same (grain bill, hops, mash, boil, chilling, fermentation temps, etc).

I always avoid ordering liquid yeast in the summer which I why I bought some packs of 34/70 instead.

There's certainly a chance that I got some bad packs of 34/70, given how many people love brewing with that yeast. But I'm not willing to risk $30-40 on another ruined batch or two. It's also not the correct yeast for Czech lagers anyway since it attenuates much higher than 2278 or even 2124, but that's besides the point here.

How did you like it yourself? It seems to be the case with a lot of people, that if they don't find an obvious flaw, they "find" something like a little bit of DMS or a little bit of diacetyl. Doesn't mean that it actually was there. But I don't know your guys over there, maybe they are not that type and they give solid feedback.


Anyway, DMS has nothing to do with the yeast, so nothing wrong with 34/70. Also bad packs wouldn't be able to create DMS in your beer. As a side note, I've had many problems in my beers in the past but I have never had a DMS problem. Not even in a pilsner malt only smash that was boiled for only 30 minutes.

 

[crazyjake19]

How did you like it yourself? It seems to be the case with a lot of people, that if they don't find an obvious flaw, they "find" something like a little bit of DMS or a little bit of diacetyl. Doesn't mean that it actually was there. But I don't know your guys over there, maybe they are not that type and they give solid feedback.


Anyway, DMS has nothing to do with the yeast, so nothing wrong with 34/70. Also bad packs wouldn't be able to create DMS in your beer. As a side note, I've had many problems in my beers in the past but I have never had a DMS problem. Not even in a pilsner malt only smash that was boiled for only 30 minutes.

I don't know that it actually was DMS. Myself, I detected an unpleasant bitterness bordering on acrid/astringent/slightly vegetal. Didn't really taste like DMS to me but I have almost no sense of smell so I may also not be able to detect it via taste. The others suggested it was similar to DMS but no one could really pinpoint what it was.

The pale lager I drank a few pints and dumped the remaining 4 gallons. The Märzen I took a few sample glasses and dumped the entire batch. I tend to lager 4-8 weeks depending on beer, noting changes/improvements over time. These two batches did not improve at all.

The same malt and hops were also used in other beers, so literally the only possible factor was the yeast. I understand that DMS wouldn't be a yeast issue, and I can't imagine it would've ever been DMS anyway since I always do 90-minute boils.

To this day, I have no idea what it was. I only know that I'll never use 34/70 again. 2124 and 2278 covers most of my lagers anyway, though I might try WLP833 for this year's Märzen and a Helles.

 

[crazyjake19]

I never enjoy 34/70. I just don't enjoy the flavour. Nothing wrong with the yeast, i just much prefer others.

That was my only experience with it. I'd be willing to try a side by side with 34/70 to other yeasts if someone else made them, I'm just not going to throw away $30-40 to find out myself. I'd be happy using 2124 for all my lagers, though I've also been content with 2278 for my Czech lagers.

 

[Miraculix]

I don't know that it actually was DMS. Myself, I detected an unpleasant bitterness bordering on acrid/astringent/slightly vegetal. Didn't really taste like DMS to me but I have almost no sense of smell so I may also not be able to detect it via taste. The others suggested it was similar to DMS but no one could really pinpoint what it was.

The pale lager I drank a few pints and dumped the remaining 4 gallons. The Märzen I took a few sample glasses and dumped the entire batch. I tend to lager 4-8 weeks depending on beer, noting changes/improvements over time. These two batches did not improve at all.

The same malt and hops were also used in other beers, so literally the only possible factor was the yeast. I understand that DMS wouldn't be a yeast issue, and I can't imagine it would've ever been DMS anyway since I always do 90-minute boils.

To this day, I have no idea what it was. I only know that I'll never use 34/70 again. 2124 and 2278 covers most of my lagers anyway, though I might try WLP833 for this year's Märzen and a Helles.

I had something similar going on once, in my case it was an infection. Swapped equipment and it was gone. Doesn't sound like a yeast issue to me, 3470 is actually pretty boring normally.

But if you have something that suits you better anyway, I'd probably stay away from 3470 as well.

 

[crazyjake19]

I had something similar going on once, in my case it was an infection. Swapped equipment and it was gone. Doesn't sound like a yeast issue to me, 3470 is actually pretty boring normally.

But if you have something that suits you better anyway, I'd probably stay away from 3470 as well.

That thought did cross my mind, perhaps those two packs of 34/70 were infected or compromised in some way? My cleaning and sanitizing regimen has always been the same and knock on wood for the 10-ish years I've been brewing I've never had an infection, short of possibly these few beers with 34/70.

 

[Shenanigans]

I measured the wort last night and after 3 days it has gone from 1.070 down to 1.014. I would say m76 is a fast fermenter at around 18 or 19oC. It should be finished by this weekend but I don't have it planned in to package it until the weekend after next.

I filled it in bottles last Sunday with an FG of 1.013 so it was really finished after about 5 days but I left in the fermenter for 2 weeks.
Only 5 days later, so early days yet but tastes good so far with a nice caramel flavour. It's also already very clear.

Just a reminder I brewed it with MJ76 instead of Diamond at room temperature in an 18oC basement.
Some people say M76 is Diamond repackaged.

I'll report back in a few weeks with my final impressions.

 

[Shenanigans]

I filled it in bottles last Sunday with an FG of 1.013 so it was really finished after about 5 days but I left in the fermenter for 2 weeks.
Only 5 days later, so early days yet but tastes good so far with a nice caramel flavour. It's also already very clear.

Just a reminder I brewed it with MJ76 instead of Diamond at room temperature in an 18oC basement.
Some people say M76 is Diamond repackaged.

I'll report back in a few weeks with my final impressions.

View attachment 868953

I have a few minutes so I'm reporting back a bit earlier.
It's just over two weeks in the bottle now.
So far it doesn't taste as good as the same recipe with WLP833 German Bock.
That one wasn't a true warm ferment though; I did a fast lager method at 13oC for 5 days until it was about 50% attenuated and then let it finish at room temperature (18oC) for another week.
This version still tastes a bit green and the carbonation didn't change much since the first sample bottle 10 days ago.
Might be slower to finish due to the high flocculation.
I'll give it another 2 weeks before checking again.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Planning a helles this weekend, my first go at it and I'm thinking I'll ferment warm under 10psi, any suggestions for the yeast? I'm debating between s23 and 34/70 and considering running it around 60f .. thoughts?

 

[balrog]

34/70
No psi
62F until exotherm done, about 35-48hr then ramp over 48hr to 68 and hold a week

Did a cerveza (much flaked corn) and it was impressively good.

 

[bailey mountain brewer]

Nice I've done similar with 34/70 in a pre prohibition lager and it was fantastic

 

[BongoYodeler]

I’ve never used 34/70 but plan to on my next batch. Going to to give @camonick ‘s Munich Dunkel recipe a try.

 

[camonick]

I’ve never used 34/70 but plan to on my next batch. Going to to give @camonick ‘s Munich Dunkel recipe a try.

Crazy!!! I’m thinking about brewing that this weekend.

 

[BongoYodeler]

Crazy!!! I’m thinking about brewing that this weekend.

I’ve been meaning to brew it for a couple years but something always seemed to jump ahead of it in the queue.

 

[balrog]

I’ve been meaning to brew it for a couple years but something always seemed to jump ahead of it in the queue.

Damned queue. I hate that fricking thing.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Planning a helles this weekend, my first go at it and I'm thinking I'll ferment warm under 10psi, any suggestions for the yeast? I'm debating between s23 and 34/70 and considering running it around 60f .. thoughts?

I use S23 at 15c with no issues. I really like it though.